Is your Helios 44 swirly?

yusuf · 02-07-2013, 11:37 PM

Does your Helios 44 produces swirly bokeh? I am unable to get with mine (44K-4) even at MFD. Although bokeh is very smooth, I was expecting swirly effect at MFD. Seems like I am missing some trick.

Any idea?

Thanks

RickyFromVegas · 02-07-2013, 11:50 PM

Not all Helios 44 will produce that swirly bokeh effect.

Older 44-2, for example, is a great one for swirls. 44k uses more blades and elements than the older designs, making the swirl less noticeable than its predecessors.

yusuf · 02-07-2013, 11:57 PM

I don't think blade count has anything to do with it as I was shooting wide open (anyway it has 6 blades only), you may be right about optical design change though.

Eulogy · 02-08-2013, 12:15 AM

My 44M produces swirls, so this might just be a copy by copy effect?

**boriscleto** · 02-08-2013, 12:35 AM

My 44M is not nearly as swirly as my 44-2.

Ikarus · 02-08-2013, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by yusuf

I don't think blade count has anything to do with it as I was shooting wide open

So far I haven't seen my 44-2 swirl either, and I use it wide open most of the time. For it to swirl, I believe you have to stop it down a bit and have the highlights beyond a certain distance.

**kiwi_jono** · 02-08-2013, 01:36 AM

Mine (older one) sometimes looks swirly: Hill Flowers | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Cant remember if this was wide open but if not it was nearly so.

Classico · 02-08-2013, 01:56 AM

I have the 44k If I recall I got the best swirl with target in focus at just over the minimum focus of the lens around 2.5-3 ft

Pablom · 02-08-2013, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by RickyFromVegas

Not all Helios 44 will produce that swirly bokeh effect.

Older 44-2, for example, is a great one for swirls. 44k uses more blades and elements than the older designs, making the swirl less noticeable than its predecessors.

that is exactly what I experience with my 44-2 and 44K-4, of course it depends heavily on the background.

ihasa · 02-08-2013, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by kiwi_jono

Mine (older one) sometimes looks swirly: Hill Flowers | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Cant remember if this was wide open but if not it was nearly so.

Lovely shot! Love the contrast between the blue petals and red stamens. Not mad keen on the swirl in this context although it doesn't spoil the shot.

ihasa · 02-08-2013, 04:21 AM

I have the k-mount version of the lens, six blades I think.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5026/5696562199_8051af9842_b.jpg

jido · 02-08-2013, 04:42 AM

From what I can tell the swirl effect appears in the background of your subject.

Demonstration:

stevebrot · 02-08-2013, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by RickyFromVegas

44k uses more blades and elements than the older designs

Huh? The 44K has six blades, the same as all the auto-aperture Helios 44, save the Helios 44M (no hyphen) which has eight. All have the same optical formula (derived from the CZJ Biotar 58/2), regardless of age or aperture design.

Steve

stevebrot · 02-08-2013, 08:13 PM

Now...to the OP...

The degree of Helios "swirlies" is highly variable, even within the same series and is dependent somewhat on choice of subject. For years, I swore that my 44M did not swirl; that is, until one day I got a swirly image. For example:

Wide Open...No Swirls!

Wide Open...Swirls!

Moderate Aperture...Definitely No Swirls!

...probably f/4.0 or so...

Steve

stevebrot · 02-08-2013, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by yusuf

even at MFD

MFD? Do you mean minimum focus distance? I can't see that would make much difference. The most impressive display of Helios 44 swirl I have seen was a photo (posted on this site some years back) of a forest trail where the subject was some 5 meters distant. The whole leafy background was one giant swirl!!!

Take a "walk" through this group on Flickr and notice the number of photos with swirl. That should give you an idea of what is a reasonable expectation from the Helios 44 line.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/helios44/

Steve

02-07-2013, 11:37 PM	#1
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	Is your Helios 44 swirly? Does your Helios 44 produces swirly bokeh? I am unable to get with mine (44K-4) even at MFD. Although bokeh is very smooth, I was expecting swirly effect at MFD. Seems like I am missing some trick. Any idea? Thanks

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02-07-2013, 11:50 PM	#2
RickyFromVegas Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Las Vegas Photos: Gallery Posts: 366	Not all Helios 44 will produce that swirly bokeh effect. Older 44-2, for example, is a great one for swirls. 44k uses more blades and elements than the older designs, making the swirl less noticeable than its predecessors.

02-07-2013, 11:57 PM	#3
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497 Original Poster	I don't think blade count has anything to do with it as I was shooting wide open (anyway it has 6 blades only), you may be right about optical design change though.

02-08-2013, 12:15 AM	#4
Eulogy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Photos: Gallery Posts: 632	My 44M produces swirls, so this might just be a copy by copy effect?

02-08-2013, 12:35 AM	#5
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,473	My 44M is not nearly as swirly as my 44-2.

02-08-2013, 01:33 AM	#6
Ikarus Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: California Photos: Albums Posts: 484	Originally posted by yusuf I don't think blade count has anything to do with it as I was shooting wide open So far I haven't seen my 44-2 swirl either, and I use it wide open most of the time. For it to swirl, I believe you have to stop it down a bit and have the highlights beyond a certain distance.

02-08-2013, 01:36 AM	#7
kiwi_jono Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,437	Mine (older one) sometimes looks swirly: Hill Flowers \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! Cant remember if this was wide open but if not it was nearly so.

02-08-2013, 01:56 AM	#8
Classico Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Grand Haven, MI Posts: 119	I have the 44k If I recall I got the best swirl with target in focus at just over the minimum focus of the lens around 2.5-3 ft

02-08-2013, 03:10 AM	#9
Pablom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Usa Posts: 1,940	Originally posted by RickyFromVegas Not all Helios 44 will produce that swirly bokeh effect. Older 44-2, for example, is a great one for swirls. 44k uses more blades and elements than the older designs, making the swirl less noticeable than its predecessors. that is exactly what I experience with my 44-2 and 44K-4, of course it depends heavily on the background.

02-08-2013, 04:16 AM	#10
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	Originally posted by kiwi_jono Mine (older one) sometimes looks swirly: Hill Flowers \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! Cant remember if this was wide open but if not it was nearly so. Lovely shot! Love the contrast between the blue petals and red stamens. Not mad keen on the swirl in this context although it doesn't spoil the shot.

02-08-2013, 04:21 AM	#11
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	I have the k-mount version of the lens, six blades I think. http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5026/5696562199_8051af9842_b.jpg

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02-08-2013, 08:05 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by RickyFromVegas 44k uses more blades and elements than the older designs Huh? The 44K has six blades, the same as all the auto-aperture Helios 44, save the Helios 44M (no hyphen) which has eight. All have the same optical formula (derived from the CZJ Biotar 58/2), regardless of age or aperture design. Steve

02-08-2013, 08:13 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Now...to the OP... The degree of Helios "swirlies" is highly variable, even within the same series and is dependent somewhat on choice of subject. For years, I swore that my 44M did not swirl; that is, until one day I got a swirly image. For example: Wide Open...No Swirls! Wide Open...Swirls! Moderate Aperture...Definitely No Swirls! ...probably f/4.0 or so... Steve

02-08-2013, 08:24 PM	#15
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by yusuf even at MFD MFD? Do you mean minimum focus distance? I can't see that would make much difference. The most impressive display of Helios 44 swirl I have seen was a photo (posted on this site some years back) of a forest trail where the subject was some 5 meters distant. The whole leafy background was one giant swirl!!! Take a "walk" through this group on Flickr and notice the number of photos with swirl. That should give you an idea of what is a reasonable expectation from the Helios 44 line. http://www.flickr.com/groups/helios44/ Steve