[tennjed]

Wife and daughters advise that I can be unreasonable at times. They have no interest in photographic equipment, so can not help me on this one. I must rely on the group.

I have gone a bit crazy and been taking advantage of some of the manual focus lens bargains that are to be had. I am not sure these bargains will last forever.

I have used all three of the major online dealers who sell used equipment, as well as a local place. All use different rating systems, but generally, have a "very good" or "excellent" rating. "Very good" is pretty much the bottom for me. Until my last purchase, I have been very pleased with condition of lenses received. When dealing with 50 year old glass, it would be unreasonable to expect flawless condition, so I accept dust and other minor things. This time though, I ordered a 50 1.4 screw-mount Takumar- again, rated as "excellent" by seller- only to discover a a blob of fungus. The fungus was on the edge of the lens rather than in the middle, and may or may not have had an effect on image. It is the first time I have received a lens with fungus. It was very visible. I wasn't even looking for it. I was just checking the lens out to see how much yellowing existed, and there it was, kind of like somebody has smeared a small bug on the glass.

Here is the conversation I had with the customer service person this morning:

Me: So, I want to make sure I am clear on this: you are telling me that if you have a lens rated as "excellent," I am to understand there is a possibility that the lens may have fungus growth on the interior elements?, IOW, a lens may have clearly visible fungus and still be considered to be in excellent condition?

CSR: Well, yes. Our guys evaluate the lens and if they determine the fungus is stabilized, i.e. not growing, and is not in an area where it will have an effect on images, the lens can be rated as excellent. When we take lenses in, it is difficult for us to take apart less valuable lenses and clean them out, and still make a profit.

Me: OK, if I see an "excellent" rating on one of your lenses, there is always the possibility it will have clearly visible fungus?

CSR: Yes.

Curious, I called the other stores I have been dealing with and determined that one of them does not rate as "excellent," lenses which have visible fungus. The other will always stipulate that fungal growth exists, if that is the case.


I am a bit more concerned about fungus because it is a living thing, and can grow. Unlike a scratch or a dust particle. I am also concerned because I am not sure of any way to absolutely determine if the fungus is dormant or dead. I assume fungus could appear to be dead, but then be subjected to the right environment and come right back to life.

Do you folks get upset about fungus? Can it be subjected to some process, other than disassembly and cleaning, wherein it is absolutely killed?

Is it unreasonable to be a bit upset about a lens being rated as "excellent" when there is clearly fungus in the lens?

[Rimfiredude]

Who is this seller that thinks a little fungus is ok? I don't want to buy from them.

[manntax]

Do you folks get upset about fungus? Can it be subjected to some process, other than disassembly and cleaning, wherein it is absolutely killed? Is it unreasonable to be a bit upset about a lens being rated as "excellent" when there is clearly fungus in the lens?

SHOCKING experience - yeah, +1 to let us know what seller grades lens 'excellent' if it has 'stabilized; fungus ... GRrrr

anyway please do not even think of keeping that lens unless you bought it for like quoter of its normal value... these sellers really needs to be taught a lesson. Just open a case and request full refund on 'item not as described' basis. And no - having some fungus is NOT OK. It will usually grow , it will affect the images ( to a degree, sometime in only certain conditions) but primarily it is reducing the value of lens significantly anywhere from 25 to 90% of its value, depends on other factors and rarity of the lens.

Good luck with getting your money back

[marcusBMG]

While I don't agree that a lens with visible fungus is excellent (a self evident blemish like that should always be mentioned) I do agree with the notion that the reaction to it is often out of proportion. I have several lenses with fungus. Spots of fungus have never visibly affected a lens performance IME. Widespread fungus, even if quite light, affecting several elements in the lens now that's different.
The fungus in the lens you bought probably took a decade to grow, its not going to mushroom overnight. If you store correctly it won't grow at all.
If the price for the lens was fair then I wouldn't go overboard about it. On ebay I would prompt the seller to give a partial refund for not mentioning it.

[sergysergy]

That is a BS excuse. That lens does not qualify as excellent

[DeadJohn]

Do you folks get upset about fungus? I'd go with "concerned" rather than "upset".

Can it be subjected to some process, other than disassembly and cleaning, wherein it is absolutely killed? Ultraviolet light can kill it. Remove the caps and point the lens into the sun. 1 day might be enough but maybe repeat it several days to be certain. Put the lens on fireproof materials (tile, stone, metal) in case the lens focuses sunlight.

Is it unreasonable to be a bit upset about a lens being rated as "excellent" when there is clearly fungus in the lens? No, it's not unreasonable. If they said their technicians saw the fungus and exposed it to a UV lamp to kill it, then you'd have to determine whether to take their word, but in this case they are claiming that they merely looked and said the fungus wasn't growing. Fungus might look stable until a burst of humid weather triggers growth.

The exchange with their CSR is troubling. I would return the lens unless it was a rare one you really want. Which dealer was it?

[Ikarus]

CSR: Well, yes. Our guys evaluate the lens and if they determine the fungus is stabilized, i.e. not growing

That's obviously BS. In order to do that, they would have to check it once, take a detailed picture of the element, wait a couple of months and take one again, before they can determine the fungus to be stabilized. Whoever believes they would actually eat the cost for the delay incurred by such a process is naive. Either way, traces of fungus should have no business being in a lens with excellent rating.

[kh1234567890]

Can it be subjected to some process, other than disassembly and cleaning, wherein it is absolutely killed?[/I] Ultraviolet light can kill it. Remove the caps and point the lens into the sun. 1 day might be enough but maybe repeat it several days to be certain. Put the lens on fireproof materials (tile, stone, metal) in case the lens focuses sunlight

Apologies for being pedantic, but is this something that you've actually done or just something that you'd read on t'Internet ?

UV at short enough wavelength and sufficient intensity to kill the fungus will not get through the glass. Search the forum ...

[Stavri]

"Stabilized fungus"..... that's gotta be an oxymoron

[calsan]

By Pentax Forums Market Place Definitions, that lens should be listed as Damaged - the lowest rating.

Mint: Item has no marks, scratches, or signs of use whatsoever. Packaged in original box with all manuals and accessories. 99.99% of original condition.
Like New: Item is lightly used, but shows no marks or scratches. Extremely minimal signs of use may be visible. Packaged in original box with all manuals and accessories. 98% of original condition.
Excellent: Item is moderately used, but shows no scratches or dents. Small marks and minimal signs of use may be visible. Collectors would accept items in this condition. 95% of original condition.
Good: Item has seen substantial use, but shows no significant scratches or dents. Marks and signs of use may be visible as a result from wear-and-tear. 90% of original condition.
Fair: Item has seen substantial use and may have some scratches, but no significant dents. Marks and signs of use will be more abundant than typically. 80% of original condition.
Poor: Item has seen great use and may have scratches, dents, and signs of use that are clearly visible. 70% of original condition.
Damaged: Item has seen extreme use, or has been handled poorly. Significant scratches, dents, dings, and signs of use are clearly visible OR the item is NOT in full working condition. 60% or less of original condition. Bargain price. Any lens with scratches on its front element, fungus, or fog will automatically fall in this category.
All conditions, save "Damaged," are assumed to retain the item's full working condition. If a lens is being sold, its glass is assumed to be in mint condition unless it is described as "Poor" or "Damaged". Please note the fine distinction between 'Mint' and 'Like New' condition for used items when posting.

[vonBaloney]

I want to know who this dealer is. A lens with fungus is not "excellent", period. And I've never heard of any reputable dealer trying to make that argument. Even if it does not have an optical effect (which is possible), it still DRASTICALLY affects the marketplace value of the lens, deserved or not. If I was ok with the fungus being there and wanted to keep the lens, I would want HALF my money back at least. But most likely I'd return it.

[luftfluss]

IMO, what that CSR told you is unconscionable.

[gordon_l34]

Hi,
Put it this way, if it was mine and I was going to keep it I would be looking at $100.00 AU to have it serviced for which I would expect to be reimbursed for.
Just my two cents worth!
Regards.

[jatrax]

"Stabilized fungus"..... that's gotta be an oxymoron

Not really. Though it is vague and imprecise. Fungus is either alive and actively growing, or dead and no longer an issue. If it is actively growing then it will soon cover the entire lens. But of course it does not, because it runs out of moisture or food and dies. Particularly with older lenses the fungus may have got a start 20 or 30 years ago, quickly died and has simply left a few tendrils in the lens for decades causing no harm. It will only be a problem again if the lens gets wet and allows new spores to germinate. The existing fungus will not reanimate, it is dead. But it is quite possible, almost certain in fact, that many dormant spores are still in place just as they would be with any lens.

All that said, I agree a lens with fungus is in no way 'excellent'. If I was selling it I would have listed it as "fully operational but has fungus". There is a lot of FUD about fungus on the internet, most of it wrong. But the buyer should be informed and allowed to make their own decision. In some cases the fungus can have etched the coating on the glass so even if it is dead, the damage has been done.

[starjedi]

Hi,
Put it this way, if it was mine and I was going to keep it I would be looking at $100.00 AU to have it serviced for which I would expect to be reimbursed for.
Just my two cents worth!
Regards.

I am not afraid of lenses with fungus but have to admit that

1) fungus will spread out potentially. Without service, it can be quickly unusable. So it definitely needs service to clean it out.

2) fungus can permanently damage the IQ and they cannot be clean fully also. So even after the service, the damage is there.

With this in mind, a lens with fungus will at most worth 1/4-1/2 of market price - service fee depending on how fungus presents inside the lens. Just my thought how to price a lens with fungus.