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02-27-2015, 09:25 PM   #1
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Samyang 85 or DA 70?

I'm looking to add a longer lens for portraiture. I like what I get from my DA 50 but want to get a higher quality lens with more reach. Both the Samyang 85 and the DA 70 seem interesting and are reachable in terms of price. Sigma 85 or FA 77 would be my ideal lenses.

An obvious difference between the lenses is autofocus. I'm still looking into if this is very important to me. Besides that, are folks pleased with the Samyang? Does it compare to the DA 70?

02-27-2015, 09:36 PM   #2
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I only have one MF lens, and don't particularly like MF, but there was no option :-)

That said, portraits are one subject where AF is not really needed - you have the time to focus on a cooperative stationary subject. So maybe the cheaper Samyang is the way to go. The 85 gets good reviews apart from misaligned focus scale/infinity, crappy hood, and difficulty in focusing without some aid.
02-27-2015, 09:45 PM   #3
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Well key points are what you are looking for and what you budget is. The two lenses have different strengths.

I have a Bower 85 f1.4 (Samyang made) but i don't have the DA70 but I have certainly been tempted with one.

In my view the strengths of the DA70 are probably:
* Its small (tiny compared to the Samyang)
* Its got AF (good too from most reports).

Stengths for the Samyang:
* Its cheap
* Its fast and it does deliver nice bokeh (although the DA70 is no slouch).

I love my Bower 85 but there are times when I crave a DA70 - especially for a nice light and compact kit.
02-27-2015, 10:16 PM   #4
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I have tried them both, optically they are great, the samyang can create those surreal bokeh due to its wide aperture, but I ended up with the DA 70, lightweight is a big plus for me and that clarity Pentax limited delivers is superb

02-27-2015, 10:34 PM   #5
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I have experience with the DA 70mm, own the Rokinon (Samyang) 85mm, and also own the 70mm Sigma EX DG f/2.8 Macro. The DA is small, light and a joy to use. It is sharp enough wide open. I used it for two days mostly at f/8 for portraits using studio lighting. The 70mm Sigma EX DG f/2.8 Macro is actually a tad sharper, not that it matters much. It is much heavier and focuses slower than the Pentax. It is a great lens, and as a bonus you can use it for macro work. The manual 85mm Samsumg/Rokinon/Bower/Vivitar (and whatever else it is labeled) is a lot of fun. You really purchase a lens like that for shooting wide open or close to it. That lens focuses smoothly enough, but at f/1.4 the depth of field is razor thin. Outside of using Live View I had a horrible time focusing with it until I figured out it was back focusing. Fortunately, this was fixed easily enough using the camera's fine tune adjustment. It is sharp enough wide open for portraits, and as good as the other two lenses after f/4. All three generate pleasing bokeh.


All three are capable of giving great results, and I found my results with the lenses matched the Photozone tests, except perhaps I would rate my 85mm a bit higher (after the back focusing was fixed). For ease of use, the 70mm Pentax is the winner. For versatility and sharpness, the Sigma wins. The corner sharpness is wonderful throughout the entire aperture range, up until diffraction comes into play. For shallow depth of field photography, the Rokinon/Samyang/whatever is a winner due to the low cost (I bought mine used for $177). Test results show it isn't as sharp as some $1,200 lenses wide open, but I found it easily good enough for portraits. There is a learning curve with the lens since the depth of field is so narrow wide open.

Don't laugh, but the D* 60-250 is one of the most versatile lens Pentax makes and can be used for portraits. I wish it were a f/2.8, but for indoor portraits shot at f/8 or so it really does't matter, and it is as sharp or sharper than many Pentax primes for those times when you want to shoot a 200mm portrait outdoors. I am experimenting with the Dylan Patrick style outdoor HSS headshot where you want anything but a flat face and need a super-bokeh background. F/4 barely makes it. The subjects do look optimal at 85mm-200mm. But that is his "look" and likely not what you are after. BTW, Pentax is a PITA with off-camera HHS...you need a cord.

Last edited by quant2325; 03-01-2015 at 08:46 AM.
02-27-2015, 10:52 PM   #6
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DA70 is a classic angle of view for portraiture - equivalent to the legendary Nikon 105. It is very sharp wide open and f/2.4 is more than adequate for shallow DoF (without getting ridiculous) with lovely bokeh. It is also amazingly compact and has autofocus with quick shift. I had one for a while, and although it didn't sway me from my FA77 it was a genuinely excellent lens.

85mm is generally thought to be a little long for portraiture on APS-C cameras, but if the only-one-eye-in-focus look is what you're after (provided you can nail focus manually) then go for it.

Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 02-28-2015 at 12:01 AM.
02-27-2015, 11:31 PM   #7
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Let me suggest another take. For "a longer lens for portraiture" it is difficult to pass the FA77mm Ltd. The FA77mm was voted the best Pentax lens at PF for a good reason, It is a superb lens and ideal for portrait in my opinion. The colour rendering is very special IMHO.

You mentioned that you do not consider the FA77mm Ltd because of price. A good quality 2nd hand FA77mm can be sourced (eg from reputed Japanese sellers) for US$600-$700, which is not much more than a new DA70mm.

My 5 cents....


Last edited by hcc; 02-28-2015 at 12:11 AM.
02-28-2015, 12:57 AM - 1 Like   #8
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It's a good question. I've done hundreds of portraits, with different perspectives, apertures and light conditions at the Venice carnival with both DA 70 limited and Tamy 70-200. Basically, I was impressed with the results of the DA 70 limited because at f/2.4 (wide open), it is as good as the Tamy @ f/4. Even though the DA70 Ltd is tiny compared to the 70-200. But I also have the DA*55 and the 100 Macro. For group / full body portraits, I find the DA 70 field of view too narrow, the 55 is better. For head/head and shoulders, the DA 70 is not long enough, something between 80mm and 100mm is better. In this case I use the 100macro. The advantage of the 100 macro WR is : it is WR, construction similar to limited, and macro use, about the same price as the DA 70 ltd. Or invest into a Sigma 85 1.4 because it'll also be great on FF.
02-28-2015, 03:09 AM   #9
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I have both, Kev.


The 70 is small, sharp, with autofocus and good colours and contrast.


The Sammy is a traditional big 85mm f1.4 portrait lens - beautiful in its own right, This is just window light:


02-28-2015, 03:20 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
It is very sharp wide open and f/2.4 is more than adequate for shallow DoF (without getting ridiculous) with lovely bokeh.
While I fully agree f/2.4 is more than enough in many occasions, one should not overlook that wider apperture can be handy on the occasion. This is really a compromize between price/size/capabilities for me and what one care.

So depending of what you are after and or the compromise, you might not want it. i know for sure I would avoid the samyang because for me it would be near impossible to focus it correctly on the viewfinder with my bare eyes. I would not want it because it is big/heavy and I dislike this kind of lenses that reduce my joy of taking photos.

So in the end I settled for FA77 f1/.8 some will settle DA70 or sigma 85mm f/1.4 or the samyang... Different compromize, different price, different possibilities.

But I dont get the without getting ridiculous part of your post. Here a few shoots from flickr (not mines) from using 85 f/1.4 lenses... The kind of things you'll not get at f/2.4... and I think this is not ridiculous:











Last edited by Nicolas06; 02-28-2015 at 03:26 AM.
02-28-2015, 04:37 AM   #11
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Yes, actually what does make a visible difference on photos is the difference of sharpness between the center (in focus) of the frame and the sharpness out of the center (=less sharpness in out of focus areas means smooth bokeh).
Typically, the DA 70 has an even sharpness across the frame; while at wide apertures FA 77 is soft in the borders and sharper in the center. This results in great effects. With the DA 70 @2.4, the images look more flat.
02-28-2015, 04:54 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Yes, actually what does make a visible difference on photos is the difference of sharpness between the center (in focus) of the frame and the sharpness out of the center (=less sharpness in out of focus areas means smooth bokeh).
Typically, the DA 70 has an even sharpness across the frame; while at wide apertures FA 77 is soft in the borders and sharper in the center. This results in great effects. With the DA 70 @2.4, the images look more flat.
I agree with the more flat. Many time I see example from the DA70 with full body portrait and I think while quite nice, this is visibly not as nice at it could be with less subject separation and less 3D/pop/pixie dust whatever you might call it.

But this DA70 lense is a great one already.
02-28-2015, 08:10 AM   #13
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I have the DA 70 Limited, but not the other lens. All I can say is the DA 70 is a jewel in it's manufacture. This well built, robust lens take excellent photos. It's great.
02-28-2015, 12:49 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcc Quote
Let me suggest another take. For "a longer lens for portraiture" it is difficult to pass the FA77mm Ltd. The FA77mm was voted the best Pentax lens at PF for a good reason, It is a superb lens and ideal for portrait in my opinion. The colour rendering is very special IMHO.

You mentioned that you do not consider the FA77mm Ltd because of price. A good quality 2nd hand FA77mm can be sourced (eg from reputed Japanese sellers) for US$600-$700, which is not much more than a new DA70mm.

My 5 cents....

With today's prices a lower priced FA 77 is about 1.7-2x more expensive than a lower priced DA 70 LTD (they start at $300) The FA 77 ltd is a cracking lens but it's too expensive to be considered in the Rokinon Vs Da debate. If were to stretch the budged the DA* 55 would a good contender, right now they're going for $500 and up.
03-01-2015, 06:29 PM   #15
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Thanks all for the great advice. I learned some useful things and have much to think on. 55* is tempting as is DA 70.
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