[crewl1]

Did a test of the DA*300 and Bigma on both K-3 and K-5iiS to see which combo would be better for BIF.

(**EDIT- user audiobomber has suggested that the camera settings were not optimized for BIF and I agree. This test will need re validation which I will do as soon as possible and update. See his comments below. )

When I was done, I got the most in-focus shots with the K-3+Bigma.

First thing I found out is I need to practice this type of shooting if I want to get usable results.

The majority of birds flying were terns, and it was a very windy day so their flight was erratic except when in hover. Other birds that showed up - gulls, egrets, sparrows and a falcon.

I used TAv with shutter speed of 1/1000, and aperture f8 for the Bigma and f6.3 for the DA*300. No shake reduction or OS was used.
Use of faster shutter and OS/SR will have to be tested at some other point. Also, different settings on the K-3 such as 'hold' could have changed the results, in tjis case 'hold' was off.

AF was the main point of this test and after the exercise I would rate the AF performance for BIF combos in this order.

1. K-3 w Sigma 50-500 (AF Best, IQ Good if kept under 500)

2. K-5iiS w DA*300 (AF Very Good, IQ Best)

3. K-3 w DA*300 (AF Good, IQ Best )

4. K-5iiS w Sigma 50-500 (AF Good, IQ Good if kept under 500)

From an IQ perspective the Bigma did fine if kept at 400mm or less in most cases, the the DA*300 delivering best IQ

The K-3 and 50-500 combo did the best job of keeping BIFs in focus.
I used AFc, 9 point auto and the close positioning of the AF points kept the bird in focus even when it was not centered in the frame. It did a good job of staying with the bird even when it dipped below the skyline where backgrounds confused the other body. Zooming out to get the bird in range and then zooming in while shooting was usable. The lens quickly reacquired when it lost focus, without racking end to end. This combo resulted in the highest percentage of in focus shots.

The K-5iiS with DA*300 performed well. I used AFc with the 'auto' point selection switch. This worked excellent for when the bird was in the sky with nothing to disturb the AF, but would lose the bird and focus on the background if it dipped below the horizon. I tried single point but if you did not keep the bird centered it would focus out, but did come back quickly when the bird was in the center again. The Auto spot seemed best on this day as the birds were in clear sky most of the time.
I noticed that the K-5iiS seemed well matched to the SDM performance of the DA*300, as it responded to each AF change request positively.
I got a high percentage of in sky focused shots.

The K-3 and DA*300 in contrast did not do as well as the two above combos, it had more instances of going out of focus and not coming back, almost as if the commands from the K-3 were too fast for it to interpret. If the birds were on a steady path it did fine, but if it changed directions much the DA*300 did not seem to keep up. This combo seemed to always focus inwards when I first tried to acquire a bird that was not already in focus so it would lose some time.

The K-5iiS and 50-500 did OK, where the zoom helped to locate the bird but it seemed to lose focus more easily than the DA*300 did. It would come back quickly enough, but did not track as well as when it was on the K-3. Percentage of in focus shots was similar to the K-3 with DA*300. I would have expected it to do better as it performed best on the K-3.

At the end I added the HD1.4x to the K-5iiS/DA*300 and it performed similarly to the combo without the HD, but I did not test it very much.

Also noted: *Sigma 50-500 lens is heavy and hand holding becomes a chore after a while.
*The DA*300 light weight is well balanced on either K body so it is a pleasure to use for hand holding.

Here are some of the better samples.

K5iiS+DA*300







K-3+Bigma







K-5iiS+HD1.4+DA*300

---

Last edited by crewl1; 04-21-2015 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Cameras not optimized for BIF

[Stavri]

Lots of fine work, thanks for the effort. (If you ever get a blog, I'll be the first subscriber)

[crewl1]

Lots of fine work, thanks for the effort. (If you ever get a blog, I'll be the first subscriber)

Thanks Stavri! I'm too scatterbrained for a blog, I'd work on it for a few months then lose focus

[jbinpg]

Thanks for this, Larry. Did the cameras have the latest firmwares loaded?

[Stavri]

It would make sense for the K3 AF to WHIPLASH (confuse and exhaust) the SDM on the Da* 300 by overloading it with instructions....

Here's my interpretation of what's happening with the K3 + Da* 300combo...

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[crewl1]

Thanks for this, Larry. Did the cameras have the latest firmwares loaded?

Good question - Just checked and K-3 has v1.02 (not the latest) and K-5iiS has v1.07 (latest)

Will have to update the K-3, I thought I had updated when I got the HD 1.4, but it seems to work fine as it is.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

Some ramblings and insight that you may find useful
Re: More Pentax's K-3 Well Intentioned AF Failings: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

"What I disliked having to let the camera confirm AF lock before cycling the shutter or it was a waste of time even when both the first frame and AFC was set to focus Priority. This was not a problem with the k5 as long as the subject moved within the limits of the AF I would have a very high success rate holding down the AF button and not worrying about AF lock when I held down the shutter."

[crewl1]

Some ramblings and insight that you may find useful
Re: More Pentax's K-3 Well Intentioned AF Failings: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

"What I disliked having to let the camera confirm AF lock before cycling the shutter or it was a waste of time even when both the first frame and AFC was set to focus Priority. This was not a problem with the k5 as long as the subject moved within the limits of the AF I would have a very high success rate holding down the AF button and not worrying about AF lock when I held down the shutter."

Thanks for the link.
One thing I tried a little bit this time is the bump technique described here Bumping the focus for BIF

[derekkite]

No surprise. When I had the K5 and sigma 150-500 I was able to get bif shots with ease. It needed lots of light though, at high shutter speed and f8 it has to be bright. The os works well as long as you aren't panning quickly as it stabilizes the image for the AF to work on.

I have gotten shots with the K3 and DA*300 and the sigma 500 f4.5, but have a high number of oof shots. It tries to be too smart, and the best results have been from single point focus, but it is extremely technique dependent. The DA*300 is a joy to handle, light and easy to track subjects with.

The 1.20 firmware acts differently than previous ones. Earlier firmware would misfocus and not correct, the new one seems better, but it may not react to the subject moving in or out of focus as well as previously. I say may because I noticed things and haven't replicated. The AF sel7 seems smarter, but no firm opinion yet. I get the feeling that they are running into processing speed limitations with this body. Oddly the single point af seems worse, even unresponsive. It may be that the backlight bug is one of many in that version. That being said I had a series of shots of an eagle and was very satisfied with the results. Lots of sharp shots allowing choice of the interesting ones. I also reset to default and rebuilt all the use modes. Things would happen that were different, once. Maybe user error, not sure, but my errors are somewhat predictable now.

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

Thanks for the link.
One thing I tried a little bit this time is the bump technique described here Bumping the focus for BIF

One thing I notice when having a lens that you can store a set focus distance to memory is a huge advantage and something I use all the time over bumping , with the 2 new FF lenses from pentax having this feature is a big bonus and a step in the right direction

---------- Post added 04-20-2015 at 11:13 PM ----------

No surprise. When I had the K5 and sigma 150-500 I was able to get bif shots with ease. It needed lots of light though, at high shutter speed and f8 it has to be bright. The os works well as long as you aren't panning quickly as it stabilizes the image for the AF to work on.

I have gotten shots with the K3 and DA*300 and the sigma 500 f4.5, but have a high number of oof shots. It tries to be too smart, and the best results have been from single point focus, but it is extremely technique dependent. The DA*300 is a joy to handle, light and easy to track subjects with.

I used the K3 and the sigma 300 2.8 for a while and found that the k5 was better as a all around BIF camera over the K3 I don't think they have nailed the AF algorithms need for target recognition and delay for when a subject goes behind an obstacle and still like manually using single point AF with a better hit rate on the k5

[audiobomber]

Using the K-3 with AF Hold OFF defeats its most sophisticated tracking control, the thing that makes it better for action shooting than any previous Pentax. Setting "tracking sensitivity to SLOW" is mentioned several times in the Bumping Focus thread linked above. The comparable setting on a K-3 would be AF Hold HIGH.

I started out with AF Hold on Auto and had reasonable success, but I thought learning how AF Hold works would be more useful. I tried shooting BIF with AF Hold off, and the hit rate was terrible. I went to AF Hold LOW, but the camera still sometimes wandered off the subject in mid-sequence, so I went with MEDIUM on my last outing. After reading the Bumping Focus thread, I am definitely going with AF Hold HIGH now. I had only used AF High once, for a hockey game, and it was brilliant.

I also believe that for proper tracking, you need to use AF Expanded Area (i.e. not Auto AF 27 point, or Zone Auto 9 pt). "AF Expanded Area" allows you to pick the AF point, and tells the camera that whatever subject you initially focussed on, is to be tracked. I have had the best success with BIF and AF Expanded Area WIDE (27 points) for BIF, because they are very hard to follow, especially when close. I use AF Expanded Area SMALL (9 points) for sports.

I'm pretty sure the K-5 and previous Pentax bodies did not have this function. Can someone tell me please whether the K-5 II has AF Expanded Area?

[crewl1]

Thanks Dan will have to try your suggestions.
K-5iiS Does have an expanded AF setting which I was unaware of.

Looks like I am going to have to explore this further on both cameras and re test.
I will put a note on the first post about this.

[GeneV]

Using the K-3 with AF Hold OFF defeats its most sophisticated tracking control, the thing that makes it better for action shooting than any previous Pentax. Setting "tracking sensitivity to SLOW" is mentioned several times in the Bumping Focus thread linked above. The comparable setting on a K-3 would be AF Hold HIGH.

I started out with AF Hold on Auto and had reasonable success, but I thought learning how AF Hold works would be more useful. I tried shooting BIF with AF Hold off, and hit rate was terrible. I went to AF Hold LOW, but the camera still sometimes wandered off the subject in mid-sequence, so I went with MEDIUM on my last outing. After reading the Bumping Focus thread, I am definitely going with AF Hold HIGH now. I had only used AF High once, for a hockey game, and it was brilliant.

I also believe that for proper tracking, you need to use AF Expanded Area (i.e. not Auto AF 27 point, or Zone Auto 9 pt). "AF Expanded Area" allows you to pick the AF point, and tells the camera that whatever subject you initially focussed on, is to be tracked. I have had the best success with BIF and AF Expanded Area WIDE for BIF, because they are very hard to follow, especially when close. I use AF Expanded Area SMALL for sports.

I'm pretty sure the K-5 and previous Pentax bodies did not have this function. Can someone tell me please whether the K-5 II has AF Expanded Area?

Good information. The comparable feature on the Sony A6000 is terrific, but I had not gotten the settings right on the K3. I'll definitely try it.

[audiobomber]

Thanks Dan will have to try your suggestions.
K-5iiS Does have an expanded AF setting which I was unaware of.

Looks like I am going to have to explore this further on both cameras and re test.
I will put a note on the first post about this.

Thanks Larry, I appreciate your efforts. It is hard work to sift through dozens and even hundreds of BIF shots.

PS There are two more controls in the K-3 Custom Menu. How are yours set?

16. First-Frame Action in AF-C
17. Action in AF-C Continuous shooting

I have both set for Focus Priority, because I don't have any use for OOF images, but I haven't tested the effects of these settings.

[derekkite]

Using the K-3 with AF Hold OFF defeats its most sophisticated tracking control, the thing that makes it better for action shooting than any previous Pentax. Setting "tracking sensitivity to SLOW" is mentioned several times in the Bumping Focus thread linked above. The comparable setting on a K-3 would be AF Hold HIGH.

I started out with AF Hold on Auto and had reasonable success, but I thought learning how AF Hold works would be more useful. I tried shooting BIF with AF Hold off, and the hit rate was terrible. I went to AF Hold LOW, but the camera still sometimes wandered off the subject in mid-sequence, so I went with MEDIUM on my last outing. After reading the Bumping Focus thread, I am definitely going with AF Hold HIGH now. I had only used AF High once, for a hockey game, and it was brilliant.

I also believe that for proper tracking, you need to use AF Expanded Area (i.e. not Auto AF 27 point, or Zone Auto 9 pt). "AF Expanded Area" allows you to pick the AF point, and tells the camera that whatever subject you initially focussed on, is to be tracked. I have had the best success with BIF and AF Expanded Area WIDE (27 points) for BIF, because they are very hard to follow, especially when close. I use AF Expanded Area SMALL (9 points) for sports.

I'm pretty sure the K-5 and previous Pentax bodies did not have this function. Can someone tell me please whether the K-5 II has AF Expanded Area?

I tried that today with the K3, and it works amazingly well. With AF Hold off it wasn't reacting at all to movement to out of focus, but with it on high it was, as you say, brilliant. AFC, 7 point sel. This is with the Sigma 500mm f4.5.