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10-03-2015, 12:45 PM   #1
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Scanning Ain't Cutting It

I've discovered that despite efforts and changing scanners I don't like most of the results I get from scanning negatives. I started with an Epson V600 and have since bought a dedicated 35mm scanner, the Plustek8200i, but while better, I feel sure I could get better results-particularly in the sharpness area, with printing the old way.

The problem is I don't want to drag out all that stuff again. My Besler 23CII is in storage under the stairwell as are my trays, timers, lens, graduates etc. I still have my darkroom sink and plumbing but the sink is covered with other things as is the table my enlarger once occupied. Scanning is the only way to upload photos to the internet for posterity or for sharing so what do you do? I've scanned negatives and prints I had and just don't like most of the results. Any advice?

10-03-2015, 01:02 PM   #2
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outsource? I mean, some of those shops charge as little as $1 per scan. Obviously you won't be able to afford to scan every neg but you might want to send some test scans out to see if they can improve on your work. Won't cost much to test a few different sources too.

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10-03-2015, 01:35 PM   #3
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I've got a V600 that seems to work fine for me... but my eyesight isn't what it used to be either. How do you know it's the scanner? What kind of tweaking software are you using?
10-03-2015, 02:12 PM   #4
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With both scanners you have to ensure, first, that the negative is flat, and, second, that it is in focus. I have no experience with the Plustek scanner, but I use a V700 for negatives bigger than 35mm. The following links discuss this issue for the V700, but the V600 will have the same issue. The last site has several negative carriers which will assist in assuring flat and in-focus negatives:

Epson V700/V750 focus height...finding the sweet spot. [Archive] - DPUG.ORG

Epson V700 out of focus? - Photo.net Film and Processing Forum

Custom film holders for Agfa, Microtek, Canon and Epson film scanners.

I hope this helps.

---------- Post added 2015-10-03 at 05:15 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
If you can wet print in the darkroom IMO you should...

Chris
I was never that good a printer. And colour was exceedingly difficult, although I did a small number of Cibachrome prints. I am much happier printing digitally.

10-03-2015, 02:23 PM   #5
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Flatness of the negative I think has been the major problem. I use VueScan software for scanning and ordered Ed Hamrick's ANR glass for the 35mm film and while it helped it wasn't heavy enough to flatten some of the negatives with Tri-X being the worse for curing. That's why I got the Plustek and while better in that area something is still not quite right. Maybe it's just me.

I use Nikon's Capture NX2 for post processing...sharpening, contrast changes, lighten, darken, etc. For 120 format I have to use the V600 and seem to have less problems with those.
10-03-2015, 02:59 PM   #6
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I use a Nikon LS-4000 for my 35mm scans; and even with it, curl can be an issue. The thicker films such as Tri-X and Tmax 3200 tend to be the worst for curling. I've used VuesScan for years, a very good piece of software. Can the focus point of the Plustek be adjusted? I checked the instructions on-line, but they seem a bit thin. You could also test both scanners with a slower film, less prone to curl.

And I don't think it's you.
10-03-2015, 03:07 PM   #7
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As I mentioned, I believe the curl or lack of flatness seems to be a major problem area. A negative carrier will pretty much flatten(being of metal) any negative and I always used a grain magnifier to get the best from a given negative. I can't use that with a scanner...wish I could. I've never read anything about being able to adjust the focus on either of the scanners I have. Even if you could, there's no "live view" to see what you're doing.

10-03-2015, 03:20 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by ColColt Quote
For 120 format I have to use the V600 and seem to have less problems with those.
I'm wondering if this is a case of expectations.
A film scanner will/should produce exactly the same results, whether 120 or 35mm.
The only difference is image magnification. If you scan both at 2400 dpi then view them at 1:1, the scan results should be the same, taking into account different lenses, different cameras etc.
If you view them both as the entire image, the 35mm scan is much more magnified than the 120 scan.
A 35mm negative scanned at 2400dpi and then viewed at 1:1 on most monitors is similar to looking at a 20"x30" print from that negative. On my monitor (24" 1920x1200), viewing a 35mm scan, full image in my editor, is like looking at an 8x12 print.
Different scanners will/can give better or worse results, but it's important to think about image magnification and also final product.
Your V600 should be able to provide sufficient scans from 35mm for good quality 8"x12" prints.
Here is something I did recently to show how different scans from different formats (from the same scanner) wll look basically the same when vied at the same magnification.


The top image was made with a 6x7 and 200mm lens on Velvia. The lower image was made on 35mm Kodachrome with a 90mm lens.
Both were scanned at 2400dpi on my Epson V500, and then downsized the same percentage.
10-03-2015, 03:38 PM   #9
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Not necessarily. My 120 Tri-X negatives are more flat than the 35mm Tri-X negatives, therein is the rub. If you hold a strip of five negatives of Tri-X in your hand the end looks like a "C" curl. I've read of those who let their film dry in the shower after it's ran for 5-15 minutes. I've always dried my negatives in the same place for 35 years and never the shower.

It's the scan process that's the problem it seems. The negative holders for the V600 leave a good bit to be desired as for holding them flat and I think the Plustek does a better job, albeit, not quite what you'd get if you were printing and using a grain magnifier.

I don't know-maybe I'm being too critical of my own work.

---------- Post added 10-03-15 at 06:41 PM ----------

This is a scan from a recent negative shot with the LeicaM2 and a 90 f2.8 ElMarit lens and HP-5. It's not bad but with a 10x loupe viewing the negative it looks more sharp to me.

10-03-2015, 04:03 PM   #10
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Are you scanning to tiffs or jpegs? Tiffs will have more detail. Are you sharpening the final image in post processing? Without it, the final print will not appear as sharp as it could. Your best comparison would be between two prints of the same image, one from a wet process and the other scanned and printed digitally.
10-03-2015, 04:03 PM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by ColColt Quote
Not necessarily. My 120 Tri-X negatives are more flat than the 35mm Tri-X negatives, therein is the rub. If you hold a strip of five negatives of Tri-X in your hand the end looks like a "C" curl. I've read of those who let their film dry in the shower after it's ran for 5-15 minutes. I've always dried my negatives in the same place for 35 years and never the shower.

It's the scan process that's the problem it seems. The negative holders for the V600 leave a good bit to be desired as for holding them flat and I think the Plustek does a better job, albeit, not quite what you'd get if you were printing and using a grain magnifier.
Film flatness can definitely cause loss of sharpness. I don't think the scanner itself is to blame though. The film holders maybe. If I have really curly negatives, I put them in a PrintFile and then leave them pressed in a very big heavy book for a few days.

I've never really wet printed, ad never look at my negatives with a loupe, so can't really comment on how scanned images compare. I have found that if you have a good negative, the scanner will give good results.


Here's an image from a 2400 dpi V500 scan of a 35mm Ektar negative.

Here's a 100% crop from the original scan
10-03-2015, 04:33 PM   #12
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I scan as .tifs, pp and then save as jpeg. I might add afterward I upload to Flickr.
10-03-2015, 04:49 PM   #13
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Sharpening is part of your post-processing? Although I suspect the problem is film curl. I gave up on the Epson holders that came with my V700 and purchased much sturdier holders from here:

Custom film holders for Agfa, Microtek, Canon and Epson film scanners.
10-03-2015, 05:01 PM   #14
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They look sharp after I pp a little it's just when they're uploaded to Flickr they seem to loose their sharpness. I usually upload around 1000x800 or something in that range. I just looked at one I have and it definitely looks sharper than when viewing it on Flickr.

I have the 35mm ANR inserts but no extra holder, just what comes with the Epson.
10-03-2015, 09:21 PM   #15
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Try "camera scanning" with a macro lens. As long as your software has curve/level controls and can flip a picture you ought to be good to go.
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