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12-24-2014, 06:53 PM   #1
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So confused now, need advice

I've never gotten along with flash, it always seems to me that I always got unexpected and lost results. When I got a K3, things started to improve. I recently bought a pair on Cactus V5 triggers and things have gotten much more fun now. I finally overcame my fear of manual flash and it's now starting to all make some sense to me. Now that I'm getting more creative, I can see a real need for a second flash and figured I'd get a cheap flash with another V5 trigger. The only thing is that I can't figure out what's a manual flash that is adjustable and will work with radio triggers. I was reading reviews at Adorama and ran into some comments about that with what I thought might be a possibility.

The one that appeared to be the best buy at the moment looked like the Pentax 200, which is on special for $69. They say "full manual" but does that mean it fires full power only or that you can change the amount of power your self? But then I read the review of the Cactus flash, which sounded really cool. So now I'm thinking of getting it and a V6 trigger to go with the 2 V5s I already have. If I understand it right (which is very debatable right now) I can use the V6 with the V5s? I already have the Pentax 540 flash, which I am finally beginning to understand how to use, though there is still a lot of features I haven't used/ figured out yet. Would the V6 and Cactus flash be too much for someone like me? I was scared off of the V6 initially because there was talk of profiles and all sorts of options, sounded too complicated. Now I think it sounds like I could manage it.

Please give me some suggestions about what to get/where to go from here. I'm not setting up a studio, I do a lot of macro and will also use fill flash for flowers outside, and occasionally for interiors. I wasn't planning on buying anything expensive, but the Cactus flash sounded very cool and not completely out of my price-range.

All of this has got my head spinning and I'm now so confused I can't make an intelligent decision. So any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

12-24-2014, 07:07 PM - 1 Like   #2
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Flashes have their place but honestly I don't like the light they give and I try to avoid it unless I'm on the go and a flash is the only light I can tote. There are so many other ways to add light if you want. In the studio I use stationary lamps, reflectors, V flats, diffusion panels, so much more often than flash. A lot of people are big on strobes but I am not one of them. I like using natural light. Check out the work of Sue Bryce. She has a few videos online, some on You Tube, Creative Live. Watch what she can do with a window, a couple of reflectors, a small v-flat and a curtain. It's truly amazing. Learn to see and use your light. Don't just depend upon a flash to make up for not understanding it. That's the most important thing really. You learn to see and really use your light, then you don't necessarily need a bunch of electronics to get what you want.

This is an excellent book on the subject if you want to have a look...

http://www.amazon.com/Just-Available-Light-Techniques-Photographers/dp/16089...vailable+light

I liked it a lot.

Last edited by magkelly; 12-24-2014 at 08:04 PM.
12-24-2014, 07:42 PM - 2 Likes   #3
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What you want is a flash that is easy to adjust the power levels on since you are triggering with the Cactus v5. I use a Nikon SB-26 that works a treat for that, available used at about $100. I also use several Pentax AF-200T flashes but they are less capable and the power settings are limited.

The Youngnuo flashes are popular but may not be as robust.

The Cactus v6 permits changing the flash power at the camera with certain supported flashes but you would need 2 v6s to make that work, the v5s will only pass the fire signal.
12-24-2014, 08:38 PM - 1 Like   #4
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I know what you mean about flash. Still not a big strobist but I do use them occasionally now. I have a Pentax AF540 now but when I started it was with a Tumax that cost around $100. The reviews of it are here: Bell & Howell (TUMAX) Z680AF-P reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database
I now use it with triggers as my second flash and it works well. As for robust - its 3.5 years old and been shlepped around in my case whether I need it or not for most of that time - just tested it and works fine. My third flash is actually an old AF16 that I got as part of a lot I bought - it still works and I've used it for accent light or on the Q because the others on the Q are just comical

12-24-2014, 09:40 PM - 2 Likes   #5
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What you've read is correct, the Cactus V5 can fire, or be fired by the Cactus V6, but there is one limitation. The the V5 transceivers only understand the simple "fire now" command, and it is all that it will transmit as well. It takes either two V6s and a TTL-capable speedlight, or a V6 and a Cactus RF60 speedlight to give you remote power control. (of course you can have more elaborate setups as well)

If you look at the hotshoe on your V5, you will see only one pin in the center, but the V6s have a multi-shoe, with TTL pins for Canon, Nikon, Pentax, and I think they've added Olympus now. If you were to put your AF540 on a V6, and you had another V6, say mounted to the camera, you could control the power levels of the flash remotely. If you then swapped out the V6 on the camera for a V5, you could still fire the flash, but you would lose the ability to adjust the power levels, it would just "fire now".

I own two V5s, two V6s and two RF60s, plus several Metz speedlights and potato mashers. I use the V6s and RF60s on location, but most of my work is done in the studio these days, and there there is no advantage to using the V6s. I end up using my V5s at least as much as the V6s, but probably more. It's a different tool for a different job.

btw, the Pentax 200 is a nice little unit if you need something to fit on a small camera, but it's guide number is barely higher than the pop-up flash, so it's of little use in many applications. If the price tag is an issue, buy a more powerful used flash rather than an underpowered new flash.
12-25-2014, 05:54 AM - 2 Likes   #6
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Check the prices at Keh for P-ttl flashes if that's what you want otherwise ClassA has a review and postings of flashes that can be profiled using the Cactus V6 which may be what you want. This is another great site for learning off camera flash info and learning. Strobist: Lighting 101

Although since the advance in technology with triggers it is a tad outdated but the same techniques can be applied using them.
12-25-2014, 11:42 AM   #7
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Thanks for all the really helpful advice! It sounds like I have 2 options - if I go with the Cactus flash, I would really need to replace my V5s with V6s, to make it worth the extra expense of the flash. The second option is to get another V5 and a flash, either a P-TTL or any flash as a manual flash.

It makes a lot of sense to buy a stronger flash, you can't make a flash brighter than it is, but you can adjust one to have less light. That's pretty obvious but I had been thinking mostly of a flash as a secondary flash and hadn't thought of it. If I give up the p-ttl, I can save money, and if I really want P-TTL, I always have the 540 flash.

With that information, it sounds like the best bang-for-buck value for my use would be a used flash and another V5. It so happens that KEH has a Nikon SB26 for sale for less than new Pentax 200. So I think I'll go that route for now. If sometime later I find I want something more sophisticated I can always get the Cactus flash and some V6 triggers, but based on my current photography interests and uses, I don't need them.

Thanks also for some of the references. I've looked at the strobist before but quickly got lost since I didn't understand enough to get even the very basics they talked about. Now that things are making more sense, I need to go back and read it again.

Any more advice or suggestions?

12-25-2014, 04:30 PM   #8
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Suggestion skip re-reading it since you have a basic concept, move on to Lighting 102 as that is the training part where one will get the most benefit from by going through a complete series of learning by doing lesson plans.
12-25-2014, 06:31 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Flashes have their place but honestly I don't like the light they give and I try to avoid it unless I'm on the go and a flash is the only light I can tote.
I know where you are coming from, but note that the problem with flash light is not that it isn't natural light, but that speedlights (and the bulbs of strobes) are so small and hence make for a small and harsh light source. Unfortunately, people often neglect to use light modifiers with flash light.

Furthermore, there seems to be a widely held belief that light modifiers such as sold by Gary Fong should do the trick, while they are completely useless unless used in close proximity to large reflecting surfaces in the correct way. Even the slightly more sensible pop-on softboxes for speedlights are not really making enough of a difference unless one photographs very small products, or similar.

QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
There are so many other ways to add light if you want. In the studio I use stationary lamps, reflectors, V flats, diffusion panels, so much more often than flash.
But luckily, this is not a question of "either or".

V-flats, reflectors, diffusers, scrims, etc. should be regarded as accessories to be used with flash, not as an alternative to flash light that only work with natural light. Natural light sometimes (not always) is available as a diffused source so it has a "head start" over flash in such situations, but unless you use these light modifiers you mentioned, you won't be getting truly good results with natural light either in the vast majority of cases.

QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Check out the work of Sue Bryce. She has a few videos online, some on You Tube, Creative Live. Watch what she can do with a window, a couple of reflectors, a small v-flat and a curtain.
I know Sue's work and agree that it's great.
You will have noticed that she goes to great length to diffuse the natural light before it hits her subjects.
Do the same with flash light, and you'll get the same result.

Have you seen the CreativeLive workshop where she recreated a lot of her lighting setups with artificial light with the help of Felix Kunze? If you watch this one, you'll see that Felix Kunze just replaces the sun with one light source but then takes care to get the same amount of diffusion that Sue employs with her natural light techniques. It really isn't hard to get high quality light from flashes/strobes, one just has to use them the right way. Bounce flash off a large reflector, off walls, through scrims, etc. and you'll be able to get the "natural light look" anywhere, at any time of the day.

Natural light of course has the advantage that (when available) it is a bright constant source which means you get a "real time preview" of the lighting result and furthermore there are no limitations for shutter speed (which are present with flash light, unless you use HSS flash). So natural light can be more straightforward to work with, if it is available from a useful direction. Having said that, it was sometimes painful to watch Sue and Felix slow down when using artificial light, e.g., when using a neutral density filter to address the sync-speed limit, when there was absolutely no need to. Sometimes they just should have reduced the power of the strobe instead of being "non-technical" about it with a "just set it anywhere"-attitude and "treating it like the sun". They could have also used a moderately powerful constant light source to get a preview of the lighting scenario, etc. Many times, they struggled (a bit) unnecessarily.

I'm not against natural light at all and would use it first whenever it works, but the "good light" is made by diffusion (clouds or V-flats or scrims) so the magic is in the modifiers, not in the source.
12-25-2014, 06:49 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtngal Quote
Thanks for all the really helpful advice! It sounds like I have 2 options - if I go with the Cactus flash, I would really need to replace my V5s with V6s, to make it worth the extra expense of the flash.
You only need to replace V5s with V6s if you also want the ability to remote control the power of the off-camera flashes. As jatrax and maxfield_photo have pointed out, you can use the V5 in conjunction with the V6 to simply fire some flashes and remote control other flashes (e.g., an RF60 or other flashes attached to a V6).

You don't need to replace V5s with V6s unless adjusting the power of the off-camera flashes is too time-consuming or inconvenient.

But I of course see your point that it would make sense to go all the way and remote control the power of all your flashes if you are getting a V6 to start with. Given that the V5 cannot participate in the group control of the V6, they really just perform a minimal function and having an all-V6 setup would be much nicer.

Luckily, your 540 FGZ and your (future) Nikon SB26 can both be remote-controlled through the V6, so if you continue to have fun with them and want to add speed/convenience later on by adding V6s, you can. BTW, the V6 really is not complicated to operate despite the rich functionality. There is quite a number of videos on youtube, if you want to get a hands-on feel.

QuoteOriginally posted by mtngal Quote
It makes a lot of sense to buy a stronger flash, you can't make a flash brighter than it is, but you can adjust one to have less light.
True, but note that the stronger a flash is, the brighter its lowest level will be as well. Sometimes, when you really need just a little bit of light, the lowest setting on a strong flash can already be too strong. That's a rare occasion, though.

Also, for getting more flash power it may be good to consider using two (or more) flashes in tandem, instead of using one big flash. The flashes in the multiple flash setup will recycle more quickly, last longer, and are much less likely to overheat when used heavily. At the highest settings, many speedlights will produce 20-30 shots in quick succession without a problem, but if pushed further than that will slow down recycling to allow the flash head to cool down. This is only a concern in high performance scenarios where the flash isn't given breaks to cool down naturally, but perhaps something to be considered.
12-25-2014, 06:54 PM   #11
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Yeah, I've seen all her CL seminars. She's doing the kind of work I like to do so I've learned a lot from watching her. I love how she plays with diffused natural light actually. You know I'm a purist when it comes to my light and I admit it. I get what you are saying but I disagree with a lot of it. I honestly think natural light, maybe with a reflector or diffuser is all I need. I can use flash, strobes, I was pretty well trained in them actually, but I like to be able to really see my light, know where it's falling, not just set it all up and guess at where it will be using imaginary physics. If I am using a set of diffused stationary lights I can see EXACTLY where it is falling on my subject as I shoot. It's so much easier thing to just move a lamp and adjust it than to stand there and try to figure out how to tone down a strobe just enough. It's a different process, a different mentality, I guess, but I like it and the light I get that way, I just like it a lot.

As a kid I used to spend a lot of time just walking around watching how light hit certain things. I was fascinated by it. I've learned a lot about lighting people and objects that way. When I do use artificial light I'm far more into using old style continuous lighting than strobes. A lot of people who are used to using flashes and strobes they wonder at that. It's so old fashioned, but my teachers got it immediately. I need to see the actual light, right there, on my subject before I shoot. It makes it work for me. I don't think that anyone can truly master lighting till they understand natural light. No amount of strobe or flash use can make up for a lack of that process. One of my teacher's once told me I was a photographer with a painter's eyes. He said one of the reasons he took me on as a student was because of how well I used the light I had available.

Light, color, line, that's something we all need to learn and learn well and a lot of photographers I see all they want to go do is learn how to use the tech. A lot of them skip over all that, never learn to use the available natural light, and I think that's bad. Studio lighting, flashes and all they can make stunning pics happen but I think learning the basics has to come first. The best strobes on the planet won't help you if you don't know HOW to work light and working with natural or available light, that's how you really learn to do that.
12-25-2014, 07:59 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Luckily, your 540 FGZ and your (future) Nikon SB26 can both be remote-controlled through the V6, so if you continue to have fun with them and want to add speed/convenience later on by adding V6s, you can. BTW, the V6 really is not complicated to operate despite the rich functionality. There is quite a number of videos on youtube, if you want to get a hands-on feel.


True, but note that the stronger a flash is, the brighter its lowest level will be as well. Sometimes, when you really need just a little bit of light, the lowest setting on a strong flash can already be too strong. That's a rare occasion, though.
Thanks for all the information - it's exactly what I need! your point about the minimum setting will be brighter on a stronger flash. I'm just learning and playing around with flash right now, so I'm not entirely sure where I'll end up with it all. I'm just having fun right now learning about how to control artificial light and make the most of it. At the moment I think don't think I'll have a need for really strong flash, but who knows? I think I'll be all right for adding just a bit of light - I've been playing around with a reflector for a while and think I can always use something like that. I'll need to get another flash soft box now and maybe some other accessories. Sounds like a visit to a local camera store. What fun! I mean that seriously, though it can be expensive. A few years ago, when I was terrified by flash and bored at lunch, I walked out of the camera store with a $12 reflector. After using it a couple of times at a botanical garden by myself, I decided that I needed more hands to handle camera and reflector. So I then spent a whole lot more money on a tripod, head and custom L-bracket. Amazing how a 12 inch folding reflector can cost around $1,000!

There's a couple of flash accessories I've eyed in the past, but I want to play around more with 2 flashes in manual mode before I get carried away with other accessories that I may or may not use.

I've always thought of flash as a tool to be used when needed. While I've seen some wonderful photos taken with artificial light, mine were always dreadful because I had no idea what I was doing. Now that I finally have an inkling of how to use a flash, it's suddenly become fun and worth exploring further.
12-26-2014, 06:07 AM   #13
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Magkelly (and everyone),

I checked out Sue Bryce on Youtube. It certainly looks like she does great stuff, but it looks like the level of what she talks about is too advanced for me. Any suggestions on which video to start with? I need help with posing and lighting for portraiture, especially posing. Thanks. If anyone has any other suggestions of videos on the subject, that would be appreciated.
12-26-2014, 07:12 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtngal Quote
Thanks for all the really helpful advice! It sounds like I have 2 options - if I go with the Cactus flash, I would really need to replace my V5s with V6s, to make it worth the extra expense of the flash. The second option is to get another V5 and a flash, either a P-TTL or any flash as a manual flash.

It makes a lot of sense to buy a stronger flash, you can't make a flash brighter than it is, but you can adjust one to have less light. That's pretty obvious but I had been thinking mostly of a flash as a secondary flash and hadn't thought of it. If I give up the p-ttl, I can save money, and if I really want P-TTL, I always have the 540 flash.

With that information, it sounds like the best bang-for-buck value for my use would be a used flash and another V5. It so happens that KEH has a Nikon SB26 for sale for less than new Pentax 200. So I think I'll go that route for now. If sometime later I find I want something more sophisticated I can always get the Cactus flash and some V6 triggers, but based on my current photography interests and uses, I don't need them.
The sb-26 has a built in optical trigger so you might find you can do without the extra v5 for many setups. The optical trigger will be pretty reliable indoors, but outside it can help if the flash attached to the v5's is aimed at the sb26. Everything on radio triggers is usually easiest, but you can save a little money for the time being if you get the sb26 and haven't decided on moving to v6's yet.

You can deal with too much flash power with neutral density gels, but I find it's rarely a problem with the nikon flashes that can drop to 1/64th power as well as zoom out and have a built in diffuser to cut power even more. Depends on what you're doing of course.
12-26-2014, 08:57 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
The sb-26 has a built in optical trigger so you might find you can do without the extra v5 for many setups. The optical trigger will be pretty reliable indoors, but outside it can help if the flash attached to the v5's is aimed at the sb26. Everything on radio triggers is usually easiest, but you can save a little money for the time being if you get the sb26 and haven't decided on moving to v6's yet.

You can deal with too much flash power with neutral density gels, but I find it's rarely a problem with the nikon flashes that can drop to 1/64th power as well as zoom out and have a built in diffuser to cut power even more. Depends on what you're doing of course.
Thanks for the additional information about the flash, I ordered it rather blindly and since it is used, I won't get a manual. It looks like I'll have a much better flash than I had originally expected to buy.

I had some Adorama dollars available from buying the DA40/v5 duo recently, so the extra V5 wasn't much out of pocket. I did consider getting the V6 but decided that the difference in price was the difference between another meal of hot dogs and beans and something better and going manual for right now is fine with me.

I like taking pictures of flowers and other botanical things. I got very frustrated trying to use a flash off-camera optically, which is why I wanted the triggers in the first place. I don't think I would use 2 flashes much for that, but it would be nice to have that capability. Only problem with all this is that I had gotten my photo bag quite a bit lighter, and now it's getting heavy again! And now that I'm re-reading the strobist, I can see it getting even heavier. Oh well, I've already gotten (more or less) used to not trying to take everything with me "just in case." Perhaps. Maybe. Really. Mostly. Urrrr!
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