[condor27596]

It took me a long time to get my 360 flash to fire half right. I still don't like how the camera likes to choose ISO 3200. This is green mode. Many times I just don't have the time to make manual practice shots. Also I'm trying to do like for like comparisons. But with zoom lenses at maybe all wide angle to 1/3 it massively washes out.

On a hunch I got a 200 flash used for $30. Works perfect with primes. The camera still chooses ISO 3200. With zoom lens wide angle it is bright but not 100 percent white like the 360.

[derekkite]

It took me a long time to get my 360 flash to fire half right. I still don't like how the camera likes to choose ISO 3200. This is green mode. Many times I just don't have the time to make manual practice shots. Also I'm trying to do like for like comparisons. But with zoom lenses at maybe all wide angle to 1/3 it massively washes out.

On a hunch I got a 200 flash used for $30. Works perfect with primes. The camera still chooses ISO 3200. With zoom lens wide angle it is bright but not 100 percent white like the 360.

Set your body to X mode. It sets the shutter speed to 1/180. Then adjust your aperture and iso, and it will adjust the flash power on a p-ttl flash unit. Not totally automatic, but you can get it close and it will work fine most of the time.

In other modes the iso is set too high.

[condor27596]

First test shot perfect. Will update. Thanks.

[jascar]

First test shot perfect. Will update. Thanks.

Mine, too! Thanks for asking the question.

[calsan]

Can't wait to try this. I've been faffing around between Av and Tv and P trying to find the best "non M" flash mode. X Mode. Now you tell me.

[mcgregni]

But you lose ambient light control, at least through the most intuitive way with shutter 'speed' adjustments. In P and Av modes, when combined with simple 'auto-flash' camera flash mode, there is this automatic lower limit (around 1/30th sec) designed to prevent blur of backgrounds due to shake .... But switching to 'slow-speed sync' flash mode frees up all shutter 'speeds' right to the 180/th limit, so your auto-exposures can record ambient light correctly.

In most situations with flash indoors, ISO 3200 is heading towards overexposure. People often say they need more flash power, but in many situations it's the fact that the flash can't give any LESS power that's the problem !

If you don't want to use full manual, then P or Av with slow speed sync flash mode can give the best of both worlds, and you retain control over your ISO as well.

[ZeljkoS]

I learned this the hard way, thought the P mode takes into account that the flash is connected to the camera and will keep ISO value low. There were a lot of garbage shots that evening. Live and learn

[Rondec]

When shooting with an external flash, I usually will set my aperture to what I want it and set iso to 800 (Av mode) and that usually works pretty well. The goal is to have a nice mixture of ambient light and flash effect, but iso 3200 sounds pretty high unless you are shooting in caves a lot.

[awaldram]

I learned this the hard way, thought the P mode takes into account that the flash is connected to the camera and will keep ISO value low. There were a lot of garbage shots that evening. Live and learn

The camera wil use an ISO range you've allowed to ensure the flash/shutter can produce an ambient mix in all modes but X and M

If you don;t want the camera to use ISO3200 then you have two options

1 Lower the ISO working window to something you consider reasonable (though you may lose ambient Mix if your lens aren't fast enough)
2 Get a more powerful flash / Multiple flashes

The fact your up round ISO3200 indicates your to far away from the subject for the flash to reach without increasing the sensitivity of the sensor, I also expect that is the ISO window limit you have set so implies the flashes GN may have been exceeded so you will have long flash recovery times and underexposed images

Though I think it most likely your shooting in light conditions the require 3200 or more for the ambient light and its not a 'flash' issue at all just a Technique and understanding what the camera is trying to achieve.
Pentax cameras always try and achieve a correct ambient exposure the add flash for fill ..... Unless you've told the camera you want something different 'X' (flash sync) tells the camera your using flash as you Main/only light source and it should ignore ambient, 'M' tells the camera you know what your doing and let you do ti yourself.

Any other setting and the camera will attempt an ambient exposure (even in pitch black) and if that take IS512,000 @f1.4 then providing your settings allow it that is what you'll get , Then the flash will hopelessly over expose as it cannot switch off fast enough

[ZeljkoS]

The camera wil use an ISO range you've allowed to ensure the flash/shutter can produce an ambient mix in all modes but X and M

If you don;t want the camera to use ISO3200 then you have two options

1 Lower the ISO working window to something you consider reasonable (though you may lose ambient Mix if your lens aren't fast enough)
2 Get a more powerful flash / Multiple flashes

The fact your up round ISO3200 indicates your to far away from the subject for the flash to reach without increasing the sensitivity of the sensor, I also expect that is the ISO window limit you have set so implies the flashes GN may have been exceeded so you will have long flash recovery times and underexposed images

Though I think it most likely your shooting in light conditions the require 3200 or more for the ambient light and its not a 'flash' issue at all just a Technique and understanding what the camera is trying to achieve.
Pentax cameras always try and achieve a correct ambient exposure the add flash for fill ..... Unless you've told the camera you want something different 'X' (flash sync) tells the camera your using flash as you Main/only light source and it should ignore ambient, 'M' tells the camera you know what your doing and let you do ti yourself.

Any other setting and the camera will attempt an ambient exposure (even in pitch black) and if that take IS512,000 @f1.4 then providing your settings allow it that is what you'll get , Then the flash will hopelessly over expose as it cannot switch off fast enough

Thanks for replying, that all makes sense and I did figure it out later, after experimenting a lot. My flash is Metz 52 AF ver. 1 , and it was perfectly capable of exposing everything correctly. In fact, overexposing everything in P mode

The problem is that camera in P mode estimates the exposure in the same way as if the flash is not connected at all, so that was confusing. Now, I just set the camera to X mode, set the aperture and iso and flash exposes everything just fine.

I'm getting better in setting up power output manually based on the situation and camera settings, but sometimes there's not time for fiddling. Both P-ttl and A mode on Metz work great. I also like P-TTL HSS which allows below 180/s timings.

Pentax system is great, but I see how someone who is not experienced and did not experiment would be disappointed with results.

[awaldram]

Thanks for replying, that all makes sense and I did figure it out later, after experimenting a lot. My flash is Metz 52 AF ver. 1 , and it was perfectly capable of exposing everything correctly. In fact, overexposing everything in P mode

The problem is that camera in P mode estimates the exposure in the same way as if the flash is not connected at all, so that was confusing. Now, I just set the camera to X mode, set the aperture and iso and flash exposes everything just fine.

I'm getting better in setting up power output manually based on the situation and camera settings, but sometimes there's not time for fiddling. Both P-ttl and A mode on Metz work great. I also like P-TTL HSS which allows below 180/s timings.

Pentax system is great, but I see how someone who is not experienced and did not experiment would be disappointed with results.

Yep often wondered why still keep 'X' mode , I mean you don;t see S,M,F or FP (Flash Peak) settings on modern cameras to support flash bulbs or powder do you.?

It would seem a lot more sensible (and modern) to have a Fill/non-fill button which would enable and disable mixed exposures for all modes except obviously Manual

I quick note in the manual stating when flash was engaged max shutter speed was 1/180 (without HSS) and job done without confusing everyone.

[stevebrot]

If you don;t want the camera to use ISO3200 then you have two options

Plus one more...don't use auto ISO, green mode or TAv.

Green mode is a work of the Devil and auto-ISO that of one of his minions.


Steve

[mcgregni]

I agree that any mode that offers varying ISOs is not good for flash work .... Likewise Sv mode is not at all an intuitive 'priority' to control exposures with flash. Much better generally to fix ISO at the lowest possible for highest quality and only increase it if you reach ' the buffers' on all other variables and don't have any more power available (longer flash head zooming can often be another rescue plan, easily forgotten).

I would personally not advise using X mode as an easy way to obtain good flash exposures.... You're just cutting off any control you can exert over ambient exposure (assuming you accept my principle that varying ISO is not a good way to be doing that). The most pleasing and successful flash images usually combine well controlled ambient light with the flash exposure. It's only in highly controlled situations with complex lighting arrangements where you will find great results with all the ambient killed off. In most indoor situations 180th sec will do exactly that .....

[derekkite]

I agree that any mode that offers varying ISOs is not good for flash work .... Likewise Sv mode is not at all an intuitive 'priority' to control exposures with flash. Much better generally to fix ISO at the lowest possible for highest quality and only increase it if you reach ' the buffers' on all other variables and don't have any more power available (longer flash head zooming can often be another rescue plan, easily forgotten).

I would personally not advise using X mode as an easy way to obtain good flash exposures.... You're just cutting off any control you can exert over ambient exposure (assuming you accept my principle that varying ISO is not a good way to be doing that). The most pleasing and successful flash images usually combine well controlled ambient light with the flash exposure. It's only in highly controlled situations with complex lighting arrangements where you will find great results with all the ambient killed off. In most indoor situations 180th sec will do exactly that .....

Fine. But the first post was someone who couldn't get it to work at all. Followed by others who finally could get an properly exposed flash shot.

There is an almost infinite depth of complexity with flash photography, as well as an almost infinite variety of opinions and practice to get an equally wide range of results. I use the flashes in manual mode almost entirely, my goal being freezing movement. I know how to do that reasonably well, I also know that it is complex and difficult. If I'm in a situation where I need a flash illuminated shot, I set to X mode, set the aperture to cover the depth of field that I need, ISO around 200, and shoot. Most times it is just fine. I can turn my AF540 FGZII on, set it to X, and it all works.

After a few hundred shots like that a person may want to figure out how to make things better. Removing the flash from the lens axis makes a substantial improvement in quality. Balancing ambient and flash is another step. Multiple flash heads adds another level again, etc, etc. I'm not a flash expert by any stretch, simply the things I've wanted to shoot have required some special treatment encouraging me to learn some technique. A friend who I respect enormously as a photographer was unaware of the movement freezing possibilities of a flash, as well as the light modifiers available. He is now using those things and having great fun extending his abilities and technique.

But someone who can't get a properly exposed shot needs help on a more basic level.

[mcgregni]

I didn't mean to imply that your original advice to the OP was wrong, sorry .... Clearly it got the results and got things working, which was the main thing and no doubt instilled more confidence, which is important. I fully accept that.

I felt the discussion had moved on to more general mode and lighting balance matters, and I was just going with that. I hope that it will help all following to consider the mode choices available and their impact on lighting balance in differing scenarios.

Like others it seems I have tended to regard X-sync mode as a kind of defunct throwback to earlier days, for working with PC cord connected studio lights. So much so that I completely ignored it in the Flash Guide, feeling it was not relevant to modern DSLRs. ! But you've made some practical points and applications for it and have clearly found it still helpful. With your permission, would you be happy for me to add a listing in the Camera Modes section of the guide with a brief summary of those possible use scenarios you referred to ? (I also intend to list names and credit people who have contributed information for the 2nd version of the guide).