Another Photokina 2016 report

Ishpuini · 09-26-2016, 02:59 AM - **5 Likes**

Hi all,

Many Photokina 2016 reports around by now, each with its own accents. Here's mine:

Ricoh/Pentax:
- K-1 firmware: loved the 1:1 crop. works nicely with APS-C lenses as well, and I was very happy to see that all of my DA20-40's vignetting happened outside the 1:1 crop. I'm looking forward to a 1:1 crop compatibility list for APS-C lenses. This might pull me over to the K-1...
- K-1 general: nothing new that hasn't been written about of course, but it was my first time with a K-1. I loved the body, but only with the primes really. the one I handled had a FA31 mounted. Whereas I always found the FA31 slightly large on my K-3II and its predecessors, it looked almost tiny on the K-1, to the point of my not immediately recognizing the lens! I tried the K-1 with my FA77 as well: beauty!! But then I asked for some of the zooms... Wow: the size of those. I knew about this of course, but now I can confirm that hand holding the K-1 plus the DFA24-70 for a whole day just doesn't seem possible for me... Plus I would need to buy bigger bags (and my current set is already bigger than I would like them to be).
- Theta S: loved the feel of it! They showed some large (40x40cm or so) prints of "little planets" out of the Theta, and I was very pleasantly surprised by the excellent detail in these! Also, we challenged the stitching as much as we could, and could only identify stitching artifacts for objects within 50cm next to the camera. I'm getting one for sure!!
- 645Z: nothing new, but I can never resist getting my hands on one of these beauties at Photokina. I did also try the new Hasselblad X1D as well, and must say that this is much more hand holdable than the 645Z, though perhaps it might suffer a bit too much design over function... Couldn't try the new Fuji as I was hoping to to have a complete comparison between the feel of these three cameras... Don't know about the EVF however. Not up to OVF level yet IMHO, at least not in the Hassy.
- Q: I asked: is the Q system dead? Answer: Yes (no hesitation). Happy to hear PF Staff got confirmation in their backstage interview that Q isn't dead, but I think I'm going to take the safe option, and replace my original Q with the latest incarnation now I still can so I can enjoy the format as long as possible.
- goodies: got a small foldable reflector, some pins and a lens cloth.

Hasselblad: see 645Z comments

Third party lenses:
- Samyang: Asked about a hood solution for my 24/3.5 T/S: they are going to check back with their engineers and get back to me via mail. Not counting much on that, but who knows? No K-mount copy of the 20/1.8 for me to try. Shame, because that one has me very interested.
- Laowa/Venuslens: No K-mount copies. All lenses felt very well built (like my 60mm, but better). Looked closer at the 15mm macro/shift. Shift mechanism looks a bit cumbersome, but all in all nice lens. The 105 STF looks nice too, but I would have liked to try this one to get an idea of the bokeh... Communication wasn't easy, since most of the staff at the booth didn't really speak English very well. They were nice enough though.
- Irix: Great conversation about the features of the 15/2.4. Great optics in that lens. Great features too: focus lock, DOF scale with hyperfocal focus indicators (FF only), beautifully dampened focus ring, great IQ... and (first time AFAIK for a MF lens) it communicates its focal length to the body! That's a time saver compared to other MF lenses that require selecting the FL for SR every time we switch on our cameras. But: it's huge and heavy. Perfect for 15mm FoV on FF I guess, but for the FoV this lens offers on APS-C, I'll pick the Samyang 16/2 any time.

Tripods: Been looking for a new travel tripod, so I focused on that. I visited Gitzo / Manfrotto (right next to Ricoh), Rollei (got lunch there), and 3LeggedThing (got entry tickets from them). Gitzo has really impressive stuff, but expensive of course (I have a travel monopod of theirs), Manfrotto has a nice product with the befree (I like the clamps over twist locks of the others, but all in all too plasticky, esp the quick release system, so not up to my expectations in terms of ruggedness), the Rollei traveler surprised me as possibly the best budget option IMHO. However, the best impression I got at 3LeggedThing. Their Leo and Albert tripods are really nice. They have the best twist lock implementation IMHO. I also liked the dual panning in their AirHed 360, which can be very practical in rough terrain.

Bags: I only stopped at Peak Design to have a look at their new backpacks. Looking nice! Nice guys to chat to as well.

for the rest: I walked by the big stands fast except Fuji, which was the busiest place on the fair (the other big ones seemed very calm in comparison). My mate is a Fuji shooter, so... If ever all my Pentax gear would get stolen and Pentax would no longer exist, Fuji would probably be my next choice... But that will never happen...

hth, Wim

PS: Something I forgot to mention in my original post:
K1 VF: I didn't remember reading any comment on it, so I tested the K-1 with my O-ME53 VF Loupe on its VF, and I am happy to say that it covers the entire VF (note I don't wear glasses) as well as it does the K-3II's VF. Somehow I had expected the larger VF to be a problem for the Loupe, but it isn't.

Last edited by Ishpuini; 09-26-2016 at 11:34 PM.

**DDoram** · 09-26-2016, 04:09 AM

Thanks for your comments Wim. I can conform that carrying the K1/DFA 24-70 is a challenge over long time periods.

Dale

**BigMackCam** · 09-26-2016, 04:22 AM

Thank you, Wim - another useful take on Photokina.

Sad to read the comments on the Q-system - both for its demise, and also the stark difference in the responses you and Adam received. One would hope Ricoh's representatives would be sincere in both cases...

D1N0 · 09-26-2016, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by Ishpuini

Q: I asked: is the Q system dead? Answer: Yes (no hesitation). Happy to hear PF Staff got confirmation in their backstage interview that Q isn't dead

They would be the very last ones to tell us that

**BigMackCam** · 09-26-2016, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

They would be the very last ones to tell us that

By "they", do you mean the PF Staff? Why would you think that?

D1N0 · 09-26-2016, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

By "they", do you mean the PF Staff? Why would you think that?

nope I mean the people PF staff interviewed

**BigMackCam** · 09-26-2016, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

nope I mean the people PF staff interviewed

Ah, now I understand. Well, what interests me is they gave two different responses... Pessimistically, I tend to believe the more negative one...

Ishpuini · 09-26-2016, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Ah, now I understand. Well, what interests me is they gave two different responses... Pessimistically, I tend to believe the more negative one...

I asked a German (temp?) rep at the public K-1 booth.

Two possible interpretations:
1) He was a not so well informed temp and as such shrugged off my question by confirming the Q's demise based on its not being present in the exhibit (possibly not even knowing about the Q's existence at all).
2) He was a no-nonsense person, deciding to put hopeful Q-fans out of their misery, regardless of management's communication guidelines (or sth alike).

Both are just as likely TBH. I've had people tell me utterly wrong things on previous occasions at Photokina (once at the Pentax/Ricoh booth: stating 55 user modes underneath the K10D's USER setting). And I've had people tell me "hush-hush" stuff that turned out to be true as well (quite often actually, though mostly at smaller booths)...

who knows?

Wim

mee · 09-26-2016, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Ah, now I understand. Well, what interests me is they gave two different responses... Pessimistically, I tend to believe the more negative one...

They still have stock that needs to be sold. I wouldn't expect a blunt response that a system/product is discontinued in a formal interview. And not just the Ricoh/Pentax representatives, but with reps in general.

**BigMackCam** · 09-26-2016, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by mee

They still have stock that needs to be sold.

Yes, I suspect that's it. Ah, well, I'll enjoy my Q and Q7 and see what the future brings. At least there are plenty of new and used bodies (and lenses) still around, so replacing in the event of failure is easy enough...

D1N0 · 09-26-2016, 06:17 AM

Ricoh is preparing a new mirrorless system:

Quote:

The mirrorless market is getting bigger and bigger. For example, Fuji has just announced a medium format mirrorless camera. At this moment, for our "premium camera" strategy, we need to know (and find) the real value of Pentax. One, of course, is the pentaprism. While this does not answer the challenge of mirrorless, we will consider options, but we will not reduce the priority of our existing DSLRs.

**BigMackCam** · 09-26-2016, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

Ricoh is preparing a new mirrorless system:

I hope so...

Mistral75 · 09-26-2016, 06:47 AM

How could they not?

Uluru · 09-26-2016, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Thank you, Wim - another useful take on Photokina.
Sad to read the comments on the Q-system - both for its demise, and also the stark difference in the responses you and Adam received. One would hope Ricoh's representatives would be sincere in both cases...

1. Regarding mixed feedback, Ricoh surely gives an all new meaning to the proverb 'let thy left hand know not what thy right hand is doing'.

2. And regarding the Q, I mean, does anybody recall 2011, and what more experienced photographers and columnists said about it? They loved the joke.

Q system, Mike Jonston wrote, was a tongue in cheek by Pentax, a deserving answer to the crazy mirrorless hype. He said something similar about the MX-1, which has a brass top plate. A deliberate joke aimed to those who can get it. Q was made to be cheap, to be obsolete in a few years. But it kept name Pentax on the mirrorless shelves. It was a training ground for times when mirrorless tech matures up enough, so that a new, more serious system can be delivered.

A serious mirrorless systems with a 1/1.7" sensor that fits in your palm? C'mon, guys, understand, it was not a serious project by any stretch of imagination... It's good it is gone. Now we know that perhaps there may be something ready and worth talking about.

CarlJF · 09-27-2016, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Ah, now I understand. Well, what interests me is they gave two different responses... Pessimistically, I tend to believe the more negative one...

Probably just the difference between the official line that Adam got and the non-official one that Ishpuini reports here. The guy at the booth didn't know that its comments were to be reported on the internet as a Photokina report. So, basically, what it means is simply that everyone at Pentax know that no future models or lenses is planned, but the actual model isn't discontinued as long as stock remains available. So, both told the truth, but different part of it.

---------- Post added 09-27-16 at 09:38 AM ----------

Originally posted by Uluru

A serious mirrorless systems with a 1/1.7" sensor that fits in your palm? C'mon, guys, understand, it was not a serious project by any stretch of imagination... It's good it is gone. Now we know that perhaps there may be something ready and worth talking about.

Who said the Q was a serious mirrorless system ? Did you really understand the Q is a system aimed at expert users ? People like the Q system because it's small, fun, versatile, and good enough for casual shooting. Maybe this doesn't ring a bell with you but it doesn't mean other people cannot understand and appreciate this...

09-26-2016, 02:59 AM - 5 Likes	#1
Ishpuini Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,727	Another Photokina 2016 report Hi all, Many Photokina 2016 reports around by now, each with its own accents. Here's mine: Ricoh/Pentax: - K-1 firmware: loved the 1:1 crop. works nicely with APS-C lenses as well, and I was very happy to see that all of my DA20-40's vignetting happened outside the 1:1 crop. I'm looking forward to a 1:1 crop compatibility list for APS-C lenses. This might pull me over to the K-1... - K-1 general: nothing new that hasn't been written about of course, but it was my first time with a K-1. I loved the body, but only with the primes really. the one I handled had a FA31 mounted. Whereas I always found the FA31 slightly large on my K-3II and its predecessors, it looked almost tiny on the K-1, to the point of my not immediately recognizing the lens! I tried the K-1 with my FA77 as well: beauty!! But then I asked for some of the zooms... Wow: the size of those. I knew about this of course, but now I can confirm that hand holding the K-1 plus the DFA24-70 for a whole day just doesn't seem possible for me... Plus I would need to buy bigger bags (and my current set is already bigger than I would like them to be). - Theta S: loved the feel of it! They showed some large (40x40cm or so) prints of "little planets" out of the Theta, and I was very pleasantly surprised by the excellent detail in these! Also, we challenged the stitching as much as we could, and could only identify stitching artifacts for objects within 50cm next to the camera. I'm getting one for sure!! - 645Z: nothing new, but I can never resist getting my hands on one of these beauties at Photokina. I did also try the new Hasselblad X1D as well, and must say that this is much more hand holdable than the 645Z, though perhaps it might suffer a bit too much design over function... Couldn't try the new Fuji as I was hoping to to have a complete comparison between the feel of these three cameras... Don't know about the EVF however. Not up to OVF level yet IMHO, at least not in the Hassy. - Q: I asked: is the Q system dead? Answer: Yes (no hesitation). Happy to hear PF Staff got confirmation in their backstage interview that Q isn't dead, but I think I'm going to take the safe option, and replace my original Q with the latest incarnation now I still can so I can enjoy the format as long as possible. - goodies: got a small foldable reflector, some pins and a lens cloth. Hasselblad: see 645Z comments Third party lenses: - Samyang: Asked about a hood solution for my 24/3.5 T/S: they are going to check back with their engineers and get back to me via mail. Not counting much on that, but who knows? No K-mount copy of the 20/1.8 for me to try. Shame, because that one has me very interested. - Laowa/Venuslens: No K-mount copies. All lenses felt very well built (like my 60mm, but better). Looked closer at the 15mm macro/shift. Shift mechanism looks a bit cumbersome, but all in all nice lens. The 105 STF looks nice too, but I would have liked to try this one to get an idea of the bokeh... Communication wasn't easy, since most of the staff at the booth didn't really speak English very well. They were nice enough though. - Irix: Great conversation about the features of the 15/2.4. Great optics in that lens. Great features too: focus lock, DOF scale with hyperfocal focus indicators (FF only), beautifully dampened focus ring, great IQ... and (first time AFAIK for a MF lens) it communicates its focal length to the body! That's a time saver compared to other MF lenses that require selecting the FL for SR every time we switch on our cameras. But: it's huge and heavy. Perfect for 15mm FoV on FF I guess, but for the FoV this lens offers on APS-C, I'll pick the Samyang 16/2 any time. Tripods: Been looking for a new travel tripod, so I focused on that. I visited Gitzo / Manfrotto (right next to Ricoh), Rollei (got lunch there), and 3LeggedThing (got entry tickets from them). Gitzo has really impressive stuff, but expensive of course (I have a travel monopod of theirs), Manfrotto has a nice product with the befree (I like the clamps over twist locks of the others, but all in all too plasticky, esp the quick release system, so not up to my expectations in terms of ruggedness), the Rollei traveler surprised me as possibly the best budget option IMHO. However, the best impression I got at 3LeggedThing. Their Leo and Albert tripods are really nice. They have the best twist lock implementation IMHO. I also liked the dual panning in their AirHed 360, which can be very practical in rough terrain. Bags: I only stopped at Peak Design to have a look at their new backpacks. Looking nice! Nice guys to chat to as well. for the rest: I walked by the big stands fast except Fuji, which was the busiest place on the fair (the other big ones seemed very calm in comparison). My mate is a Fuji shooter, so... If ever all my Pentax gear would get stolen and Pentax would no longer exist, Fuji would probably be my next choice... But that will never happen... hth, Wim PS: Something I forgot to mention in my original post: K1 VF: I didn't remember reading any comment on it, so I tested the K-1 with my O-ME53 VF Loupe on its VF, and I am happy to say that it covers the entire VF (note I don't wear glasses) as well as it does the K-3II's VF. Somehow I had expected the larger VF to be a problem for the Loupe, but it isn't. Last edited by Ishpuini; 09-26-2016 at 11:34 PM.

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09-26-2016, 04:09 AM	#2
DDoram Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 632	Thanks for your comments Wim. I can conform that carrying the K1/DFA 24-70 is a challenge over long time periods. Dale

09-26-2016, 04:22 AM	#3
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,669	Thank you, Wim - another useful take on Photokina. Sad to read the comments on the Q-system - both for its demise, and also the stark difference in the responses you and Adam received. One would hope Ricoh's representatives would be sincere in both cases...

09-26-2016, 05:09 AM	#4
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by Ishpuini Q: I asked: is the Q system dead? Answer: Yes (no hesitation). Happy to hear PF Staff got confirmation in their backstage interview that Q isn't dead They would be the very last ones to tell us that

09-26-2016, 05:15 AM	#5
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,669	Originally posted by D1N0 They would be the very last ones to tell us that By "they", do you mean the PF Staff? Why would you think that?

09-26-2016, 05:21 AM	#6
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by BigMackCam By "they", do you mean the PF Staff? Why would you think that? nope I mean the people PF staff interviewed

09-26-2016, 05:25 AM	#7
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,669	Originally posted by D1N0 nope I mean the people PF staff interviewed Ah, now I understand. Well, what interests me is they gave two different responses... Pessimistically, I tend to believe the more negative one...

09-26-2016, 05:33 AM	#8
Ishpuini Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,727 Original Poster	Originally posted by BigMackCam Ah, now I understand. Well, what interests me is they gave two different responses... Pessimistically, I tend to believe the more negative one... I asked a German (temp?) rep at the public K-1 booth. Two possible interpretations: 1) He was a not so well informed temp and as such shrugged off my question by confirming the Q's demise based on its not being present in the exhibit (possibly not even knowing about the Q's existence at all). 2) He was a no-nonsense person, deciding to put hopeful Q-fans out of their misery, regardless of management's communication guidelines (or sth alike). Both are just as likely TBH. I've had people tell me utterly wrong things on previous occasions at Photokina (once at the Pentax/Ricoh booth: stating 55 user modes underneath the K10D's USER setting). And I've had people tell me "hush-hush" stuff that turned out to be true as well (quite often actually, though mostly at smaller booths)... who knows? Wim

09-26-2016, 06:08 AM	#9
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by BigMackCam Ah, now I understand. Well, what interests me is they gave two different responses... Pessimistically, I tend to believe the more negative one... They still have stock that needs to be sold. I wouldn't expect a blunt response that a system/product is discontinued in a formal interview. And not just the Ricoh/Pentax representatives, but with reps in general.

09-26-2016, 06:13 AM	#10
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,669	Originally posted by mee They still have stock that needs to be sold. Yes, I suspect that's it. Ah, well, I'll enjoy my Q and Q7 and see what the future brings. At least there are plenty of new and used bodies (and lenses) still around, so replacing in the event of failure is easy enough...

09-26-2016, 06:17 AM	#11
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Ricoh is preparing a new mirrorless system: Quote: The mirrorless market is getting bigger and bigger. For example, Fuji has just announced a medium format mirrorless camera. At this moment, for our "premium camera" strategy, we need to know (and find) the real value of Pentax. One, of course, is the pentaprism. While this does not answer the challenge of mirrorless, we will consider options, but we will not reduce the priority of our existing DSLRs.

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09-26-2016, 06:22 AM	#12
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,669	Originally posted by D1N0 Ricoh is preparing a new mirrorless system: I hope so...

09-26-2016, 06:47 AM	#13
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	How could they not?

09-26-2016, 03:21 PM	#14
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by BigMackCam Thank you, Wim - another useful take on Photokina. Sad to read the comments on the Q-system - both for its demise, and also the stark difference in the responses you and Adam received. One would hope Ricoh's representatives would be sincere in both cases... 1. Regarding mixed feedback, Ricoh surely gives an all new meaning to the proverb 'let thy left hand know not what thy right hand is doing'. 2. And regarding the Q, I mean, does anybody recall 2011, and what more experienced photographers and columnists said about it? They loved the joke. Q system, Mike Jonston wrote, was a tongue in cheek by Pentax, a deserving answer to the crazy mirrorless hype. He said something similar about the MX-1, which has a brass top plate. A deliberate joke aimed to those who can get it. Q was made to be cheap, to be obsolete in a few years. But it kept name Pentax on the mirrorless shelves. It was a training ground for times when mirrorless tech matures up enough, so that a new, more serious system can be delivered. A serious mirrorless systems with a 1/1.7" sensor that fits in your palm? C'mon, guys, understand, it was not a serious project by any stretch of imagination... It's good it is gone. Now we know that perhaps there may be something ready and worth talking about.

09-27-2016, 06:30 AM	#15
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	Originally posted by BigMackCam Ah, now I understand. Well, what interests me is they gave two different responses... Pessimistically, I tend to believe the more negative one... Probably just the difference between the official line that Adam got and the non-official one that Ishpuini reports here. The guy at the booth didn't know that its comments were to be reported on the internet as a Photokina report. So, basically, what it means is simply that everyone at Pentax know that no future models or lenses is planned, but the actual model isn't discontinued as long as stock remains available. So, both told the truth, but different part of it. ---------- Post added 09-27-16 at 09:38 AM ---------- Originally posted by Uluru A serious mirrorless systems with a 1/1.7" sensor that fits in your palm? C'mon, guys, understand, it was not a serious project by any stretch of imagination... It's good it is gone. Now we know that perhaps there may be something ready and worth talking about. Who said the Q was a serious mirrorless system ? Did you really understand the Q is a system aimed at expert users ? People like the Q system because it's small, fun, versatile, and good enough for casual shooting. Maybe this doesn't ring a bell with you but it doesn't mean other people cannot understand and appreciate this...