If you like Civil War history, this might interest you.

Dewman · 10-20-2015, 01:35 PM

Surprisingly, I had never heard of Jack Hinson until recently. I've been a history buff since Jr. High School and considered myself fairly well versed on quite a bit of history. Not a scholar, but fairly well-read. I did a little Googling and after reading a short piece on the man, I ordered the book, "Jack Hinson's One-Man War," from Amazon.

It arrived last Saturday and it's a fascinating work. An amazing account of a father's love for his sons and his revenge for their gruesome, senseless murders.

http://www.amazon.com/Jack-Hinsons-One-Man-Civil-Sniper/dp/1589806409/ref=sr...7s+one+man+war

Last edited by Dewman; 01-02-2016 at 07:09 AM.

Winder · 10-20-2015, 06:28 PM

The Civil War is full of great pieces of interesting history. I took a Civil War history class in college and it was one of my favorite classes. Professor gave a 100 question test the first day of class.

1. Who owned more slaves: Union General Grant or Confederate General Lee?
Answer: Grant. Grant would be the last US President who was a former slave owner.
Lee never owned slaves and was opposed to slavery and succession.

2. Who is Jim Limber Davis?
Answer: The adopted black child of confederate president Jefferson Davis. Technically there was no legal way for the Davis family to adopt Jim, but he is referred to in family letters as one of the children and appears in family photographs (Google him). When Union troops captured the family, Jim was separated from the rest of them.

Mainly it was a test of misconceptions of the war to see what people thought they knew. At one point I was trying to read the biographies of all the major generals, but I only made it to 9. I will have to check out Jack Hinson.

**gaweidert** · 10-20-2015, 06:37 PM

i have heard of this book, but never read it. I did get a copy of Company Aytch by Sam Watkins. Interesting read of the war and battles as he saw them. I do give a pretty mean tour of the Gettysburg Battlefield when I am there.

wildman · 10-21-2015, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Lee never owned slaves

Technically correct if memory serves.,,
Lee inherited the Arlington home from his father in law while his wife Mary Custis retained legal ownership and ultimate control over the estate's slaves - I've seen numbers of over 300 slaves on the Arlington estate.

This was typical in the antebellum South where legal ownership and control of real estate and slaves were often differentiated and held by two different members of the same family on especially large plantations.

Rupert · 10-21-2015, 07:55 AM

I got a batch of letters from a distant relative on my Mom's side of the family of a Civil War soldier that changed my thoughts on the war entirely. These are heartbreaking letters of the real pain and suffering endured, the near starvation, the lack of sanitation and medical care, the cold, the heat, and the misery of watching your friends die one by one.

The return letters from his wife were no less heartbreaking. A woman alone with several young children, little food and walking miles every day for fresh water. Sickness and death on her end too.

No glorious battles, no victory marches or celebrations, just the cold hard facts of reality of how devastating that war really was for so many.

Every time I try to read anything else regarding that war, the letters come to my mind and I get no further.

Regards!

**clackers** · 10-21-2015, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by wildman

Lee inherited the Arlington home from his father in law while his wife Mary Custis retained legal ownership and ultimate control over the estate's slaves - I've seen numbers of over 300 slaves on the Arlington estate.

Very canny of the professor to leave that out. :-)

Winder · 10-21-2015, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by wildman

Technically correct if memory serves.,,
Lee inherited the Arlington home from his father in law while his wife Mary Custis retained legal ownership and ultimate control over the estate's slaves - I've seen numbers of over 300 slaves on the Arlington estate.

This was typical in the antebellum South where legal ownership and control of real estate and slaves were often differentiated and held by two different members of the same family on especially large plantations.

His father in-law passed away and left Lee as the executor of the estate with written instructions that once his estate was settled and divided up between his daughters that the slave were to be emancipated. Lee opposed slavery on religious grounds ans wrote the following in a letter after attending a speech by President Pierce:
December 27, 1856:
"There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy."

Lee was a white supremacist, but so was Lincoln and every other general on both sides of the war.

There is not a typical antebellum South. The last census before the war as the US with a population of 28 million and 8 million of those living in states where slavery was still legal. Less than 400K are recorded as slave owners. Less than 5% of the southern population owned slaves and not all slave owners are white. Anthony Johnson was a free man of color who records show owned slaves of both "African and Irish decent". William Ellison was a free man of color who owned 60 slaves on his plantation in South Carolina. Louisiana records show multiple sugar plantations as being owned by free citizens of color with over 100 slaves on each plantation. Angle Oak Plantation is in South Carolina and Justus Angel (free man of color) owned nearly 100 slaves on what was a 2,700 acre plantation. Justus Angel had a documented history of being a violent master. There is a book that was written by a slave in Louisiana who was owned by a free man of color and worked on a sugar plantation. If forget his name, but he would take the train into New Orleans on the weekend and play music and then return to the plantation Sunday night. He made enough money as a musician that he could have bought his freedom if he had chosen to do so. Depending on who's numbers you use, New Orleans had the highest number of free men of color who owned slaves and that number is as high as 25%.

Confederate General Stonewall Jackson is shown to have owned several slaves. Jackson and his wife started a bible school for slaves where they could learn to read an write through bible study. The records show that several slaves had requested that Jackson purchase them. One slave that Jackson purchased never worked for General Jackson. Jackson got the man a job at the Virgina Military Institute (VMI) so that he could earn the money to buy his freedom. One slave is listed as a disabled girl.

There is a twisted concept of benevolence that is used to justify slavery by the elitists of the day. Elitists today still hide behind benevolence to justify their actions.

Bunch · 10-21-2015, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Winder

The Civil War is full of great pieces of interesting history. I took a Civil War history class in college and it was one of my favorite classes. Professor gave a 100 question test the first day of class.

1. Who owned more slaves: Union General Grant or Confederate General Lee?
Answer: Grant. Grant would be the last US President who was a former slave owner.
Lee never owned slaves and was opposed to slavery and succession.

2. Who is Jim Limber Davis?
Answer: The adopted black child of confederate president Jefferson Davis. Technically there was no legal way for the Davis family to adopt Jim, but he is referred to in family letters as one of the children and appears in family photographs (Google him). When Union troops captured the family, Jim was separated from the rest of them.

Mainly it was a test of misconceptions of the war to see what people thought they knew. At one point I was trying to read the biographies of all the major generals, but I only made it to 9. I will have to check out Jack Hinson.

So the professor was a southern romanticist? Lee indeed held the ownership of many slaves upon the death of his father-in-law, George Washington Custis, and actually went to court to keep those slaves bound until the finances of the estate steadied, despite Custis' will that ordered the slaves freed immediately upon his death.

General Lee and the Family Slaves

Rupert · 10-21-2015, 09:48 AM

My great great grandfather on my father's side is buried near here, he fought for the North out of Missouri, and when the war was over they came to Texas with one former slave that was his best friend, and had long been emancipated.

On my Mom's side they were mostly in the Confederacy, although being Irish, they were not much better off back then than slaves.

My Great Great Grandfather is buried in a small cemetery with over a dozen Confederate veterans...he is the only Union veteran there. I've heard all the family stories, and there was little or no friction between any of the veterans after the war...not here at least. My Grandfather was a rancher and highly respected by his friends of any persuasion, and so was his former Black slave. More than likely they had all had enough of war and dying..

As I read those old letters from a soldier on my Mom's side of the family, the horrific cost of the war makes it easy to see why few wanted to continue it forward. The reenactments we see today, and the historical slant of glorious victories and triumphant battles hide the reality that was. Same with most wars. Only those that served can relive the true horror, and unfortunately, far too many of our veterans do just that.
There are better ways, but mankind has yet to find them.

Regards!

Winder · 10-21-2015, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Bunch

So the professor was a southern romanticist? Lee indeed held the ownership of many slaves upon the death of his father-in-law, George Washington Custis, and actually went to court to keep those slaves bound until the finances of the estate steadied, despite Custis' will that ordered the slaves freed immediately upon his death.

General Lee and the Family Slaves

He was African American and he got his PhD from Duke, but I don't know if he would consider himself a "southern romantic" or not. There is nothing romantic about slavery or war.

You need to read the link you posted.

" As executor of the Custis estate, General Lee was, in fact, bound by principles of equity to carry out the wishes of the testator under circumstances in which he believed the testator's wishes were in conflict. Custis apparently wished that the slaves be emancipated immediately, yet the only way payment of his legacies to General Lee's daughters could be funded was through the cash received from the labor of the slaves. To resolve this conflict, General Lee applied to the circuit court of Arlington for an interpretation of the will provisions, and for an order specifying the point in time when the will’s provision regarding emancipation must be executed."

10-20-2015, 01:35 PM	#1
Dewman Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,492	If you like Civil War history, this might interest you. Surprisingly, I had never heard of Jack Hinson until recently. I've been a history buff since Jr. High School and considered myself fairly well versed on quite a bit of history. Not a scholar, but fairly well-read. I did a little Googling and after reading a short piece on the man, I ordered the book, "Jack Hinson's One-Man War," from Amazon. It arrived last Saturday and it's a fascinating work. An amazing account of a father's love for his sons and his revenge for their gruesome, senseless murders. http://www.amazon.com/Jack-Hinsons-One-Man-Civil-Sniper/dp/1589806409/ref=sr...7s+one+man+war Last edited by Dewman; 01-02-2016 at 07:09 AM.

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10-20-2015, 06:28 PM	#2
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	The Civil War is full of great pieces of interesting history. I took a Civil War history class in college and it was one of my favorite classes. Professor gave a 100 question test the first day of class. 1. Who owned more slaves: Union General Grant or Confederate General Lee? Answer: Grant. Grant would be the last US President who was a former slave owner. Lee never owned slaves and was opposed to slavery and succession. 2. Who is Jim Limber Davis? Answer: The adopted black child of confederate president Jefferson Davis. Technically there was no legal way for the Davis family to adopt Jim, but he is referred to in family letters as one of the children and appears in family photographs (Google him). When Union troops captured the family, Jim was separated from the rest of them. Mainly it was a test of misconceptions of the war to see what people thought they knew. At one point I was trying to read the biographies of all the major generals, but I only made it to 9. I will have to check out Jack Hinson.

10-20-2015, 06:37 PM	#3
gaweidert Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,325	i have heard of this book, but never read it. I did get a copy of Company Aytch by Sam Watkins. Interesting read of the war and battles as he saw them. I do give a pretty mean tour of the Gettysburg Battlefield when I am there.

10-21-2015, 04:59 AM	#4
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by Winder Lee never owned slaves Technically correct if memory serves.,, Lee inherited the Arlington home from his father in law while his wife Mary Custis retained legal ownership and ultimate control over the estate's slaves - I've seen numbers of over 300 slaves on the Arlington estate. This was typical in the antebellum South where legal ownership and control of real estate and slaves were often differentiated and held by two different members of the same family on especially large plantations.

10-21-2015, 07:55 AM	#5
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	I got a batch of letters from a distant relative on my Mom's side of the family of a Civil War soldier that changed my thoughts on the war entirely. These are heartbreaking letters of the real pain and suffering endured, the near starvation, the lack of sanitation and medical care, the cold, the heat, and the misery of watching your friends die one by one. The return letters from his wife were no less heartbreaking. A woman alone with several young children, little food and walking miles every day for fresh water. Sickness and death on her end too. No glorious battles, no victory marches or celebrations, just the cold hard facts of reality of how devastating that war really was for so many. Every time I try to read anything else regarding that war, the letters come to my mind and I get no further. Regards!

10-21-2015, 08:27 AM	#6
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by wildman Lee inherited the Arlington home from his father in law while his wife Mary Custis retained legal ownership and ultimate control over the estate's slaves - I've seen numbers of over 300 slaves on the Arlington estate. Very canny of the professor to leave that out. :-)

10-21-2015, 08:41 AM	#7
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by wildman Technically correct if memory serves.,, Lee inherited the Arlington home from his father in law while his wife Mary Custis retained legal ownership and ultimate control over the estate's slaves - I've seen numbers of over 300 slaves on the Arlington estate. This was typical in the antebellum South where legal ownership and control of real estate and slaves were often differentiated and held by two different members of the same family on especially large plantations. His father in-law passed away and left Lee as the executor of the estate with written instructions that once his estate was settled and divided up between his daughters that the slave were to be emancipated. Lee opposed slavery on religious grounds ans wrote the following in a letter after attending a speech by President Pierce: December 27, 1856: "There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy." Lee was a white supremacist, but so was Lincoln and every other general on both sides of the war. There is not a typical antebellum South. The last census before the war as the US with a population of 28 million and 8 million of those living in states where slavery was still legal. Less than 400K are recorded as slave owners. Less than 5% of the southern population owned slaves and not all slave owners are white. Anthony Johnson was a free man of color who records show owned slaves of both "African and Irish decent". William Ellison was a free man of color who owned 60 slaves on his plantation in South Carolina. Louisiana records show multiple sugar plantations as being owned by free citizens of color with over 100 slaves on each plantation. Angle Oak Plantation is in South Carolina and Justus Angel (free man of color) owned nearly 100 slaves on what was a 2,700 acre plantation. Justus Angel had a documented history of being a violent master. There is a book that was written by a slave in Louisiana who was owned by a free man of color and worked on a sugar plantation. If forget his name, but he would take the train into New Orleans on the weekend and play music and then return to the plantation Sunday night. He made enough money as a musician that he could have bought his freedom if he had chosen to do so. Depending on who's numbers you use, New Orleans had the highest number of free men of color who owned slaves and that number is as high as 25%. Confederate General Stonewall Jackson is shown to have owned several slaves. Jackson and his wife started a bible school for slaves where they could learn to read an write through bible study. The records show that several slaves had requested that Jackson purchase them. One slave that Jackson purchased never worked for General Jackson. Jackson got the man a job at the Virgina Military Institute (VMI) so that he could earn the money to buy his freedom. One slave is listed as a disabled girl. There is a twisted concept of benevolence that is used to justify slavery by the elitists of the day. Elitists today still hide behind benevolence to justify their actions.

10-21-2015, 08:49 AM	#8
Bunch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 283	Originally posted by Winder The Civil War is full of great pieces of interesting history. I took a Civil War history class in college and it was one of my favorite classes. Professor gave a 100 question test the first day of class. 1. Who owned more slaves: Union General Grant or Confederate General Lee? Answer: Grant. Grant would be the last US President who was a former slave owner. Lee never owned slaves and was opposed to slavery and succession. 2. Who is Jim Limber Davis? Answer: The adopted black child of confederate president Jefferson Davis. Technically there was no legal way for the Davis family to adopt Jim, but he is referred to in family letters as one of the children and appears in family photographs (Google him). When Union troops captured the family, Jim was separated from the rest of them. Mainly it was a test of misconceptions of the war to see what people thought they knew. At one point I was trying to read the biographies of all the major generals, but I only made it to 9. I will have to check out Jack Hinson. So the professor was a southern romanticist? Lee indeed held the ownership of many slaves upon the death of his father-in-law, George Washington Custis, and actually went to court to keep those slaves bound until the finances of the estate steadied, despite Custis' will that ordered the slaves freed immediately upon his death. General Lee and the Family Slaves

10-21-2015, 09:48 AM	#9
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	My great great grandfather on my father's side is buried near here, he fought for the North out of Missouri, and when the war was over they came to Texas with one former slave that was his best friend, and had long been emancipated. On my Mom's side they were mostly in the Confederacy, although being Irish, they were not much better off back then than slaves. My Great Great Grandfather is buried in a small cemetery with over a dozen Confederate veterans...he is the only Union veteran there. I've heard all the family stories, and there was little or no friction between any of the veterans after the war...not here at least. My Grandfather was a rancher and highly respected by his friends of any persuasion, and so was his former Black slave. More than likely they had all had enough of war and dying.. As I read those old letters from a soldier on my Mom's side of the family, the horrific cost of the war makes it easy to see why few wanted to continue it forward. The reenactments we see today, and the historical slant of glorious victories and triumphant battles hide the reality that was. Same with most wars. Only those that served can relive the true horror, and unfortunately, far too many of our veterans do just that. There are better ways, but mankind has yet to find them. Regards!

10-21-2015, 11:50 AM	#10
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Bunch So the professor was a southern romanticist? Lee indeed held the ownership of many slaves upon the death of his father-in-law, George Washington Custis, and actually went to court to keep those slaves bound until the finances of the estate steadied, despite Custis' will that ordered the slaves freed immediately upon his death. General Lee and the Family Slaves He was African American and he got his PhD from Duke, but I don't know if he would consider himself a "southern romantic" or not. There is nothing romantic about slavery or war. You need to read the link you posted. " As executor of the Custis estate, General Lee was, in fact, bound by principles of equity to carry out the wishes of the testator under circumstances in which he believed the testator's wishes were in conflict. Custis apparently wished that the slaves be emancipated immediately, yet the only way payment of his legacies to General Lee's daughters could be funded was through the cash received from the labor of the slaves. To resolve this conflict, General Lee applied to the circuit court of Arlington for an interpretation of the will provisions, and for an order specifying the point in time when the will’s provision regarding emancipation must be executed."