[gerax]

Hi all

Firstime poster, so please be patient with me.

I enjoy shooting with my K-30, my first decent DSLR.
I started out with the 18-55 kit lens, but soon grew the need for more oprions.
My wife gave me a Sigma 70-300 for my birthday, and as much as it's far from being a premium lens it's giving me some good fun and opportunities to cut my teeth on.

My question is: as time and experience will be more I'd be interested in getting some better quality lenses.
Is it worth it to spend twice as much or more the price of the K-30 body for third party (or Pentax) lenses?
Will the K-30 be some kind of bottle-neck for high quality lenses?
I know that lenses are kind of the same as microphones in the audio world, and getting good quality ones is a lifle-long investment a serious user will never regret.
I also acknowledge the fact that these lenses will be usable with better cameras should I decide to upgrade in the future.
It's just that as much as I love photography it's not what I do for a living (audio is), so I'll have to be wise in my investments.

Thanx

[Adam]

Will the K-30 be some kind of bottle-neck for high quality lenses?

Nope. By today's standards the K-30 is still quite good, and upgrading from your consumer zooms will make a big difference in terms of image quality. There are plenty of good primes and zooms out there that are budget-friendly:

Building a Quality Lens Kit on a Budget - Gear Guides | PentaxForums.com

[CristiC]

Is it worth it to spend twice as much or more the price of the K-30 body for third party (or Pentax) lenses?

Short answer: YES.
When your photographic skill gets to the point that you become well aware of the limitations of your current gear and you get proficient at post-processing RAW images and want high-quality images to hang on a wall, then investing in high quality glass is a must. Rather than upgrading the camera body, I would invest in better lenses that will certainly outlast the camera body.

Will the K-30 be some kind of bottle-neck for high quality lenses?

Definitely NO. You can use full-frame lenses on the K-30 too.

[gerax]

Many thanx...that's kind of the answer I hoped I'd get.

I'm taking a look at the suggestions here on the forum.
Too bad I didn't spot the 55-300 Penatx zoom suggested as an alternative to the 18-55 kit lens to point my wife towards it...
Right now I'm in the "super long zoom" phase, but I'll soon get to wide angle.

Thanx and keep 'em coming.

L.

[JimC1101]

The K-30 is a great camera, I have had it for almost 3 years, so it will never be considered a bottle neck. I consider an upgrade at times but when I look at my output, I always ask myself why ? The Sony 16MP sensor should go down in history as one of the great legends as it has been used in the K-5(xx), k-01. K-30/50/500 and others sing its praise time and again. Sure you can get the K-3 for 24MP and the S2 with wifi and articulated screen but at the end of the day. it is all about the picture and the K-30 takes great pics.


Third party lenses are fine as Sigma and Tamron make great AF options and other MF lenses that can be used. I have a Tamron 18-200 that I think I paid for $149 with rebate and for what it is it takes great pics. Stop it down to 5.6, stay around 20mm to 150mm and you will smile when you see it. Pentax also has great options also of course. You will get WR lenses to use and higher quality glass in some areas.


Bottom line you have a great camera, there are many options out there in regards to lenses available and what you said is true, body's come and go but lenses last a lifetime so with the body you now have, focus on the lens you want. Look at the EXIF from your camera in lightroom or similar and see where you shoot the most in terms of focus distance. If you find you are shooting mostly 100mm....look for a 100mm macro. If you look at your pics and see that you are shooting at your short end of 70mm.....go for a limited prime. There are so many options and you will see what you will want most. Have fun.

[forest_bear59]

I think the Sigma 70-300 has some advantages over the 55-300 from Pentax. It's depending on the version You have got. The 70-300mm APO macro has some (pseudo-)macro possibilities in the 200-300mm range the 55-300 cannot offer. And the HSM version is faster and focuses with much lower noise.

As the lenses are the eyes of Your camera, investing even in a 90:10 ratio or more can payoff. The camera can (but must not) be the cheapest part of the Equipment. Good optics is a wise investition if You can and want afford it.

A warm welcome!

[gerax]

Ahhhh, guys, many thanx, it's good to be here.

My Sigma 70-300 has the Macro option which I've been positively impressed to start with.
Initially I was aimed at the Tamron 28-300 F3.5 but it wasn't available for Pentax mount so I had to switch to the Sigma.
My only gripe with it so far (took it for a test drive yesterday at the park) is that the AF hunts a bit too much in the long end and that it's a bit noisy, but after all...it's a budget lens (and that was a birthday gift...) so I'm more that happy with it at the moment.

Good suggestion to check what distance I shoot the most...I'll do it for sure.

On my radar now is a Sigma 150-500 for super long shots in wildlife situations.

I'll be at a concert tonight, I'll hopefully be able to take some good shots (I'm in 4th row...)...it will be a good opportunity to test the setup in low light.

Cheers

[JimC1101]

Have fun and don't get too discouraged. Low light at a concert will be a daunting task for just starting out. Shoot with TAV and don't be afraid to jack up the ISO. I shoot many times in ISO 6400 in low light situations and the K-30 can clean up nicely using LR.


Just remember, film is free. Shoot everything all the time, change settings, see what the outcome looks like and you will see what looks best to you. When I first got my camera, I shot out the window outside for an hour just changing settings with my new cam to see where the sweet spot was with certain lenses and how the outcome would be, changing camera settings. Imagine if you had to shoot film and do that.

[Des]

Welcome to the forum. You have an excellent camera.

Is it worth it to spend twice as much or more the price of the K-30 body for third party (or Pentax) lenses?

Well, it was for me, once I worked out my preferences. For the first 6 years with a DSLR (after 25 years of film SLR) I used my Tamron 18-250 superzoom as my only lens - very handy, and excellent to learn with. I got thousands of enjoyable photos. Eventually I figured out where my real preferences lay and have bought specialist lenses to suit. I have ended up with five premium lenses (DA 12-24, FA 43, FA 77, DFA 100 and Sigma 400), each of which is worth significantly more than my K-30 body.

But if you choose wisely you can get very good lenses without spending nearly so much. In the first place, many people won't need a whole bag of specialist lenses, just one or two that suit their shooting style (landscapes, portraits, wildlife, streets, macro or whatever). Secondly, there are many K-mount lenses that offer outstanding value for money. The DA 35 f2.4, DA 50 f1.8, DA 16-45 and DA-L 55-300 are modern AF examples. There are many fine older lenses that don't cost an arm and a leg but can produce fine images. That is one of the joys of the Pentax system.

My Sigma 70-300 has the Macro option which I've been positively impressed to start with. Initially I was aimed at the Tamron 28-300 F3.5 but it wasn't available for Pentax mount so I had to switch to the Sigma.

The Sigma is probably a better lens anyway:
Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO DG Macro Lens Reviews - Sigma Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database
Tamron 28-300mm F3.5-6.3 XR Di AF Lens Reviews - Tamron Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

You can have a lot of fun with your Sigma. Have a look at what other people have done with their Sigma 70-300s:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/130-lens-sample-photo-archive/155042-sigm...le-photos.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/130-lens-sample-photo-archive/163015-sigm...-dl-macro.html

As @JimC1101 points out, using the zooms for a while will give you a chance to work out what is the most suitable extra lens for you.

My only gripe with it so far (took it for a test drive yesterday at the park) is that the AF hunts a bit too much in the long end and that it's a bit noisy, but after all...it's a budget lens (and that was a birthday gift...) so I'm more that happy with it at the moment.

It's not just budget lenses that do that! Screw drive lenses tend to be noisy. Even my DFA 100mm Macro and Sigma 400mm f5.6 Telemacro - both fine lenses - can both hunt and sound like coffee grinders in the process.

The advantages of screw drive AF are that it is cheap, fast and reliable. In-lens motors (Pentax calls them SDM, Sigma calls them HSM) are quiet, but they can break down, and they add to the weight, bulk and cost of the lens.

On my radar now is a Sigma 150-500 for super long shots in wildlife situations.

People get good results with this lens (and its sibling the Sigma 50-500, commonly known as the Bigma). But a word of caution: carrying and using a big heavy lens like this (close to 2kg) requires skill, dedication and, for many people, a sturdy tripod. Consider renting one before buying to see whether it suits you.

You'll get many different views about wildlife lenses, but if you really want to go down this path I'd suggest you consider a 300mm or 400mm prime lens, which can be coupled with a teleconverter for extra reach. For wildlife you often want all the reach you can get, so losing the flexibility of a zoom isn't as critical. (You already have the 70-300 to cover the more moderate tele range anyway.) A prime will generally be lighter and faster (ie wider maximum aperture, which is good for low light and/or high shutter speeds, which are often required for shooting wildlife) than an equivalent zoom.

If you can afford it, the Pentax DA*300 f4 is many people's choice (coupled with the Pentax 1.4x teleconverter): weather resistant, quiet SDM autofocus, relatively light weight (1070g), excellent image quality. With the TC it gives the equivalent of 420mm f5.6, although the lens is so sharp many people just use it without the TC and crop their images.

The earlier F*300 and FA*300 f4.5 are also very highly rated (although they use screw drive autofocus). The F* is significantly lighter.

A cheaper but very good alternative is the Sigma 400mm f5.6 Tele Macro (with 77mm filter). They are hard to find, but a really high quality lens. They generally go for around $600-$700, sometime less. There is one for sale in the PF marketplace at present.

There is an earlier Sigma 400 (72mm filter) and a Tokina 400 which are not as good, but signficantly cheaper.

There are also older MF long tele primes (e.g. Pentax A 400), but most people now want AF for wildlife. (We've gone soft, compared to photographers of yore!)

Pentax also made a 400 f5.6 in the FA series, but it is rare and very expensive ($US2,500+ on the secondhand market). There are other options too (e.g. Sigma 500mm, Pentax DA 560) but they are generally very heavy and/or very expensive.

[gerax]

---------- Post added 03-30-15 at 02:41 PM ----------

Have fun and don't get too discouraged. Low light at a concert will be a daunting task for just starting out. Shoot with TAV and don't be afraid to jack up the ISO. I shoot many times in ISO 6400 in low light situations and the K-30 can clean up nicely using LR.


Just remember, film is free. Shoot everything all the time, change settings, see what the outcome looks like and you will see what looks best to you. When I first got my camera, I shot out the window outside for an hour just changing settings with my new cam to see where the sweet spot was with certain lenses and how the outcome would be, changing camera settings. Imagine if you had to shoot film and do that.

I will.

I got some decent shots at another concert some time ago (I see many of them) and I had the K-30 with an old Tamron 28-210 that I hooked up with an Adaptall to the Pentax...no AF, all manual mode, F4 and I had to play a lot with ISO. In low light finding the right spot of shutter speed was tricky, and being the lens non stabilized I got lots of blurred pics, but also several usable ones. Shooting with professional concert lighting is easy (in that regard). I'm excited to see what results I'll come up with now that I have become more confident with the camera and on top of it, I have a new decent lens.

I'll post some.

Thanx

L.

---------- Post added 03-30-15 at 02:45 PM ----------

Welcome to the forum. You have an excellent camera.


Well, it was for me, once I worked out my preferences. For 6 years I used my Tamron 18-250 superzoom as my only lens - very handy, and excellent to learn with. I got thousands of enjoyable photos. Eventually I figured out where my real preferences lay and have bought specialist lenses to suit. I have ended up with five premium lenses (DA 12-24, FA 43, FA 77, DFA 100 and Sigma 400), each of which is worth significantly more than my K-30 body.

But if you choose wisely you can get very good lenses without spending nearly so much. In the first place, many people won't need a whole bag of specialist lenses, just one or two that suit their shooting style (landscapes, portraits, wildlife, streets, macro or whatever). Secondly, there are many lenses that offer outstanding value for money. The DA 35 f2.4, DA 50 f1.8, DA 16-45 and DA-L 55-300 are modern AF examples. There are many fine older lenses that don't cost an arm and a leg but can produce fine images. That is one of the joys of the Pentax system.


The Sigma is probably a better lens anyway:
Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO DG Macro Lens Reviews - Sigma Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database
Tamron 28-300mm F3.5-6.3 XR Di AF Lens Reviews - Tamron Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

You can have a lot of fun with your Sigma. As @JimC1101 points out, using the zooms for a while will give you a chance to work out what is the most suitable extra lens for you.


It's not just budget lenses that do that! Screw drive lenses tend to be noisy. Even my DFA 100mm Macro and Sigma 400mm f5.6 Telemacro - both fine lenses - can both hunt and sound like coffee grinders in the process.


People get good results with this lens (and its sibling the Sigma 50-500, commonly known as the Bigma). But a word of caution: carrying and using a big heavy lens like this (close to 2kg) requires skill, dedication and, for many people, a sturdy tripod. Consider renting one before buying to see whether it suits you.

You'll get many different views about wildlife lenses, but if you really want to go down this path I'd suggest you consider a 300mm or 400mm prime lens, which can be coupled with a teleconverter for extra reach. For wildlife you often want all the reach you can get, so losing the flexibility of a zoom isn't as critical. A prime will generally be lighter and faster (ie wider maximum aperture, which is good for low light and/or high shutter speeds, which are often required for shooting wildlife) than an equivalent zoom.

If you can afford it, the Pentax DA*300 f4 is many people's choice (coupled with the Pentax 1.4x teleconverter): weather resistant, quiet SDM autofocus, relatively light weight (1070g), excellent image quality. The earlier F*300 and FA*300 f4.5 are also very highly rated (although they use screw drive autofocus).

A cheaper but very good alternative is the Sigma 400mm f5.6 Tele Macro. They are hard to find, but a really high quality lens. Pentax also made a 400 f5.6 in the FA series, but it is rare and very expensive ($US2,500+ on the secondhand market).

Hi.

This is starting to get very interesting.

I'll look into it. I said it's on my radar but I'm only going to get such a specialized tool once I feel I have mastered the zoom I have now and I'm satisfied with the shots I'm getting.
I'm quite comfortable with ISO, aperture and shutter speed management, but there are several areas I'm going to experiment more.
This forum seems like a very deep mine of informations and knowledgeable people to dig into...
On top of this I never expected such a high amount of good replys in such a short time and for such a "generic" thread.
Great.

[Outis]

My question is: as time and experience will be more I'd be interested in getting some better quality lenses.
Is it worth it to spend twice as much or more the price of the K-30 body for third party (or Pentax) lenses?
Thanx

Absolutely. In fact, I've paid as much, or more, for several of my lenses than I did for my K-3.

Will the K-30 be some kind of bottle-neck for high quality lenses?
Thanx

Not at all-- in fact, you'll probably find that the converse is true, that your lenses are a bottleneck for your K-30.

What I'd recommend is that you spend some time with your current set of lenses, and wait to buy new lenses until you get a feel for the limitations of your current gear. That way, you'll only buy what you know you'll get use out of, and you'll be able to appreciate what your new gear brings to the table.

[Des]

I'll look into it. I said it's on my radar but I'm only going to get such a specialized tool once I feel I have mastered the zoom I have now and I'm satisfied with the shots I'm getting. I'm quite comfortable with ISO, aperture and shutter speed management, but there are several areas I'm going to experiment more.

Good thinking.

Much as PF members love spending other people's money on lenses, skills and experience count for more than gear.

This forum seems like a very deep mine of informations and knowledgeable people to dig into...

Absolutely. Have a look at the articles as well as forum threads. For example, the in-depth review of the K-30 is full of useful information, including recommended settings.

It's also worth getting some guidebooks from your library. Many people recommend "Understanding Exposure" by Brian Peterson. I got a lot from Michael Freeman's books (101 top tips for digital photography, The Photographer's Eye, etc).

One thing so far mentioned only in passing. The next cheapest way to upgrade the quality of your photos (apart from improving skills and knowledge) is to shoot in RAW or RAW+jpg and edit your photos with good post-processing software. There are lots of threads about this, so I won't digress here. It's worth getting free trial versions of some of the better programs (Lightroom, CaptureOne, DxO Optics Pro, Faststone, etc), then buy the one you prefer and learn it thoroughly. There is plenty of scope for improving images taken with budget lenses in particular, just with a few quick tweaks (vignetting, distortion, chromatic aberrations, exposure, white balance, vibrancy, contrast, noise etc). In fact some programs will automate the basic fixes (which is one reason I like DxO OP).

[Paleo Pete]

In low light finding the right spot of shutter speed was tricky, and being the lens non stabilized I got lots of blurred pics, but also several usable ones.

Image Stabilization is built into the camera, it works with any lens you mount, including my ancient manuals. One of the best things about Pentax. If you're getting motion blur, it's either you moving around or shutter speed too slow. With a 200mm lens, keep the shutter speed 1/180 or better and it should do pretty well. I've used 1/180 tons of times with my K30 and a Vivitar manual 200mm, M42 screw mount, no problems with motion blur. With my 135mm I can get as slow as 1/90 and get away with it but I prefer to stay above 1/125.

Also make sure your camera is set to the right focal length for your lens. Main menu screen, page 3, at bottom, "Input Focal Length". Set that to the longest focal length of your lens, or the focal length you use most with that lens. I use all prime lenses, so it's always set to the right focal length for the lens I'm using. Except for the 3 or 4 times a year I change lenses and forget to reset it...

Third party lenses...excellent. I only have a Makinon 135mm right now, probably 40 years old, but it's been getting me some great shots. I thought it sucked using it with the K-x but a little practice with it on the K30 and it's been doing great. I've also used a Vivitar TX mount 200mm, with M42 adapter, can't say enough good things about that lens until it just plain wore out...Also have a Lentar M42 mount 135mm, that does a good job. I've been a fan of 3rd party lenses for a long time though, used a couple with my 35mm cameras too with very good results.

[SpecialK]

I'll have to be wise in my investments.

Thanx

Welcome!

It will always cost more than your budget, regardless of what that budget is.

[gerax]

Good thinking.

Much as PF members love spending other people's money on lenses, skills and experience count for more than gear.


Absolutely. Have a look at the articles as well as forum threads. For example, the in-depth review of the K-30 is full of useful information, including recommended settings.

It's also worth getting some guidebooks from your library. Many people recommend "Understanding Exposure" by Brian Peterson. I got a lot from Michael Freeman's books (101 top tips for digital photography, The Photographer's Eye, etc).

One thing so far mentioned only in passing. The next cheapest way to upgrade the quality of your photos (apart from improving skills and knowledge) is to shoot in RAW or RAW+jpg and edit your photos with good post-processing software. There are lots of threads about this, so I won't digress here. It's worth getting free trial versions of some of the better programs (Lightroom, CaptureOne, DxO Optics Pro, Faststone, etc), then buy the one you prefer and learn it thoroughly. There is plenty of scope for improving images taken with budget lenses in particular, just with a few quick tweaks (vignetting, distortion, chromatic aberrations, exposure, white balance, vibrancy, contrast, noise etc). In fact some programs will automate the basic fixes (which is one reason I like DxO OP).

Hi and thanx for the infos.

I'm heavily browsing the forum as there is such a wealth of infos...
As for the post phase, I use Photoshop quite a bit for my work but I didn't get into its picture correction fetaures.
I checked LR out and looks like a pretty convenient package for the price. I may get it shortly.

---------- Post added 04-01-15 at 09:58 AM ----------

Image Stabilization is built into the camera, it works with any lens you mount, including my ancient manuals. One of the best things about Pentax. If you're getting motion blur, it's either you moving around or shutter speed too slow. With a 200mm lens, keep the shutter speed 1/180 or better and it should do pretty well. I've used 1/180 tons of times with my K30 and a Vivitar manual 200mm, M42 screw mount, no problems with motion blur. With my 135mm I can get as slow as 1/90 and get away with it but I prefer to stay above 1/125.

Also make sure your camera is set to the right focal length for your lens. Main menu screen, page 3, at bottom, "Input Focal Length". Set that to the longest focal length of your lens, or the focal length you use most with that lens. I use all prime lenses, so it's always set to the right focal length for the lens I'm using. Except for the 3 or 4 times a year I change lenses and forget to reset it...

Third party lenses...excellent. I only have a Makinon 135mm right now, probably 40 years old, but it's been getting me some great shots. I thought it sucked using it with the K-x but a little practice with it on the K30 and it's been doing great. I've also used a Vivitar TX mount 200mm, with M42 adapter, can't say enough good things about that lens until it just plain wore out...Also have a Lentar M42 mount 135mm, that does a good job. I've been a fan of 3rd party lenses for a long time though, used a couple with my 35mm cameras too with very good results.

Interesting, I have always been talked about "stabilized lenses" so I thought that belonged to the glass, not to the camera. Good to know it's just not the case. Anyway, I feel more confident now that I have a "modern" lens, I may come back to the manual one later as I have more skills and are more capable in the camera management.
Not sure about the maximum focal lenght of the camera/lens, I mean: the camera asks me for maximum focal length only when I use the manual lenses, when I use AF ones it autmatically gets it.
I'll look into it.

---------- Post added 04-01-15 at 09:59 AM ----------

Welcome!

It will always cost more than your budget, regardless of what that budget is.

I know...it's just that I'm addicted to expensive passions...

Thanx!