Manufacture-design sensor fault ricoh gr?!

reeluff · 07-27-2016, 02:31 AM

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Has anyone else had/seen/heard of this issue? Especially with an early production unit.

I have had the Ricoh GR since it was released, have only ever used it for a few shots most days never using it hard or as a premium camera could and should be. I went on a trip recently and decided to take GR as sole camera – mistake! Ruined half my trips work! At least now I know this camera(or at least mine) is not designed to be used as a camera should. The GR has been babied for and only used at a fraction of what this camera should be capable of.

The issue started after using it for about half of a day – upwards of perhaps 100 shots, nothing huge and nothing rapid, all spread out. The screen started to distort with random purple patterns – so thought the lcd was perhaps on its way out. Wasn't impressed, then super not impressed once I reviewed images(raw+jpeg) to find out that they had been ruined and taken on a weird pattern too – essentially showing me that the issue was not lcd but something more serious – assumedly the sensor or related. Woke up next morning and issue was still there, until it decided to vanish soon after. I have had it happen a few more times, and it occurs after a slightly extended period of use. Not a huge period of use, nothing a camera of this calibre should have problems with – it essentially renders my GR useless, unproductive and unreliable for anything more than a few shots. Upon further observation I notice that when the disturbance is occurring, if I apply light twisting torsion to the GR body I can get the malfunction to shift on and off at my discretion. So I have concluded that there is probably some kind of overheating/warping of some componentry that leads to a sensor failure. If anyone knows if there might be something low level I can do, if it might be even something as simple as a connector or contact being out perhaps – unlikely.

My contact with ricoh was nothing special. Was in contact with the online technical department, a person named Willem who sounded more like a ricoh GR forum user than an actual engineer. Response time was tediously slow, never had my questions answered and had the ticket closed abruptly which was charming. Had much better experience in contact with the UK Ricoh repair partner photopia / Joanne Roper. They would have to forward my camera to Germany for inspection and repair. Having worked in technical/electronic repair facilities – I was hesitant in wanting to send it away. And concluded not to when I got the response of “We have received a response from the repair agents to advise that they may need to replace the optical unit where the sensor is included. They have advised a worse case charge of about 240 Euro plus shipping (subject to inspection).” > That cost is not worth it considering the value of the camera(not much), I would rather just buy a new one – rather than risk it going through a repair facility - where likely it will come back with something else wrong with it, or end up with another fault later on anyway. Interestingly I had to push for the potential cause of the issue, and asked if there is a known manufacturing fault even if just on early production units. Apparently there is no known fault, though somehow they could offer a potential repair solution after they had asked for my cameras serial number – suggesting there must be, I hadn't even sent them the picture or video of the fault, nor asked. Though the brief description and serial number was enough info to give a suspected cause/repair suggesting I must not be the only one!

The GR line is my favourite camera, going back to the film series too, love em. But back there too I was plagued with a lovely camera that annoyingly would just seemingly fall to pieces and functionality too after not much use. Great cameras but something gives in there design or manufacturing of photographic tools that can be used seriously without knowing that eventually something is going to go wrong. Only my experience of course, but it has been my experience with 3 of there cameras, the film GR1+GR1v and GR > as in every GR camera I have owned and used has faulted way before it had ever been used up to what its life span should be. And of course the only cameras I have ever had issues with too, shame indeed. Certainly love-hate.

So I am left with a GR I can not rely on for more than a few shots, unless I wanna play torsion with it (or smash it as my partner thought I was about to do with it-was close for sure). Not too impressed with the response I had. Of course out of warranty, of course I am not going to get them admitting to a manufacturing-design fault but still, I reckon there is and having to foot the bill on such is a bit sour. In my opinion there is no alternative that compares though...the ricoh GR is that good.

Last edited by reeluff; 09-13-2016 at 03:42 AM.

reeluff · 07-27-2016, 03:32 AM

Youtu.be

antipattern · 07-27-2016, 04:22 AM

This might not be the sensor but a broken/loose connector cable. If you feel that you have nothing left to lose, you might as well take the camera apart and check all connections. Maybe that fixes the problem already.

I think I have a similar issue with my iPhone (that I bought second hand), but it happens so rarely it's barely worth mentioning. However, I have noticed that the problem tends to happen when the device is very warm and it often goes away if I apply a little pressure to the enclosure. So my hunch is that it's a loose cable/connection that expands during heat. But these are all just guesses.

vonBaloney · 07-27-2016, 07:16 AM

Bad memory cards can make weird effects also (and a much more common problem) -- make sure you rule that out first.

Blacknight659 · 07-27-2016, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Bad memory cards can make weird effects also (and a much more common problem) -- make sure you rule that out first.

I always buy premium memory cards. I never skimp on this for the fact that I just invested in an awesome camera, I am not about to put a shotty card in my camera that may become corrupted. There is always a risk of corruption any ways, but I try to limit that with a better card.

This is the first time I have heard of a bad memory card causing issues with the sensor/screen. I think this is totally possible and could be the issue. Perhaps this camera demands a higher quality card.

I hope you try this and I am interested in what you find. I hope it works for you.

Rico · 07-27-2016, 12:40 PM

reeluff,

I don't know what you want us to say? Your camera has a sensor defect. From your description the longer you have the camera turned on brings out the problem which could be the sensor getting overheated at a certain point to manifest it.

I had a Panasonic Lumix LC1 that had a bad sensor. I noticed it right away though. It showed as a vertical line on the LCD. Panasonic replaced the sensor and LCD together as they were both one part. So it is know surprise the GR sensor repair would be handled in the same way. My experience with Panasonic I shipped off the camera they fixed it and it was sent back to me.

Sorry your GR is out of warranty. The GR is an excellent camera worthy of repair even at the 240 Euro. The first GR is slightly smaller than the GRII.

Blacknight659 · 07-27-2016, 01:01 PM

As it happens, cameras do have problems from time to time. It is frustrating, but as mechanical and electronic things go... they can and do break down. As awesome as this camera is, it is worth the repair as Rico said.

Yes it sucks
Yes we agree it sucks
And Yes, we are all in line to have the same problem in the future with any camera or lens we own. It is just a part of it.

reeluff · 09-13-2016, 03:53 AM

update: My ricoh GR also now exhibits the stuck closed shutter at startup fault - not to mention sensor dust.
I stand by my statement that I believe the GR has manufacturing / design faults or at least use poor components that have a pathetic longevity for what is a somewhat premium product / price point. It is falling apart way too soon-easily just like my film GR1 did too.

Rico · 09-13-2016, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by reeluff

update: My ricoh GR also now exhibits the stuck closed shutter at startup fault - not to mention sensor dust.
I stand by my statement that I believe the GR has manufacturing / design faults or at least use poor components that have a pathetic longevity for what is a somewhat premium product / price point. It is falling apart way too soon-easily just like my film GR1 did too.

You stand by your statement for your camera.

If you had used it more when you bought it you would have realized there was a defect earlier then could have gotten it repaired or replaced under warranty.

Now you are SOL.

deadwolfbones · 09-14-2016, 08:16 PM

Yes, one camera with a problem does not equal an endemic manufacturing fault. Every product has bad samples. Sorry this happened to yours, though!

reeluff · 09-15-2016, 02:45 AM

Well - the stuck shutter seems a common issue so it aint just my one camera is it! Might it be possible that the sensor and shutter issues are related? Heat and low quality components no doubt. How many people with the GR post on forums, I expect a low percent and thus reporting of faults will be low too. I hope it will not happen to anyone else's GR that reads this, though I expect the probability to be quite high. Perhaps it was a design/ manufacture fault in early production units and had since been rectified - I do not know - Ricoh said there was no known issues, I do not expect them to tell the straight truth though. Excuse me for being somewhat annoyed with Ricoh - I have used them since the original GR1 film which also fell to pieces way too soon/easily! Love the camera - there is no alternative in my opinion > hate the manufacturing longevity. Perhaps time to move on now though!

Rico · 09-15-2016, 07:42 AM

reeluff let me take a guess here. You noticed early on that your GR had some sort of problem but did nothing about it under warranty. Now your camera is out of warranty so you are all up set now.

No manufacture can guarantee perfect product production. That is why there are consumer warranty protection on products. You missed out on that so you have to pay out of pocket.

Pentax forums has over 60,000 members. You are one of only a few who have had a problem with the GR.

Like I said from the start what do you expect us to say to you? You chose not to send your GR back under warranty. That means you will have to pay to have it fixed now. For the price of the fix the GR is worth repairing. It is less than buying a new camera. And guess what. The repaired camera will have a warranty again.

reeluff · 09-15-2016, 10:26 AM

No - I have had the camera since it was first released and had my first issue with it this year in April after having done 5.5k shutter releases. A nice gentle easy life.

I do not expect anyone to say anything - just having a place to moan I guess. I feel I deserve a bit of a moan - I have had a GR1, GR1v and GR - would you believe they have all had shutter failure! None of them had a hard life, all failing way before perceived expectations.

I wouldn't mind paying to repair something that I felt deserves being repaired - but the cost is too high for something that might fail again so easily.

I will probably just let my GR die and move on from Ricoh.

07-27-2016, 02:31 AM	#1
reeluff New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 5	Manufacture-design sensor / shutter fault ricoh gr?! Has anyone else had/seen/heard of this issue? Especially with an early production unit. I have had the Ricoh GR since it was released, have only ever used it for a few shots most days never using it hard or as a premium camera could and should be. I went on a trip recently and decided to take GR as sole camera – mistake! Ruined half my trips work! At least now I know this camera(or at least mine) is not designed to be used as a camera should. The GR has been babied for and only used at a fraction of what this camera should be capable of. The issue started after using it for about half of a day – upwards of perhaps 100 shots, nothing huge and nothing rapid, all spread out. The screen started to distort with random purple patterns – so thought the lcd was perhaps on its way out. Wasn't impressed, then super not impressed once I reviewed images(raw+jpeg) to find out that they had been ruined and taken on a weird pattern too – essentially showing me that the issue was not lcd but something more serious – assumedly the sensor or related. Woke up next morning and issue was still there, until it decided to vanish soon after. I have had it happen a few more times, and it occurs after a slightly extended period of use. Not a huge period of use, nothing a camera of this calibre should have problems with – it essentially renders my GR useless, unproductive and unreliable for anything more than a few shots. Upon further observation I notice that when the disturbance is occurring, if I apply light twisting torsion to the GR body I can get the malfunction to shift on and off at my discretion. So I have concluded that there is probably some kind of overheating/warping of some componentry that leads to a sensor failure. If anyone knows if there might be something low level I can do, if it might be even something as simple as a connector or contact being out perhaps – unlikely. My contact with ricoh was nothing special. Was in contact with the online technical department, a person named Willem who sounded more like a ricoh GR forum user than an actual engineer. Response time was tediously slow, never had my questions answered and had the ticket closed abruptly which was charming. Had much better experience in contact with the UK Ricoh repair partner photopia / Joanne Roper. They would have to forward my camera to Germany for inspection and repair. Having worked in technical/electronic repair facilities – I was hesitant in wanting to send it away. And concluded not to when I got the response of “We have received a response from the repair agents to advise that they may need to replace the optical unit where the sensor is included. They have advised a worse case charge of about 240 Euro plus shipping (subject to inspection).” > That cost is not worth it considering the value of the camera(not much), I would rather just buy a new one – rather than risk it going through a repair facility - where likely it will come back with something else wrong with it, or end up with another fault later on anyway. Interestingly I had to push for the potential cause of the issue, and asked if there is a known manufacturing fault even if just on early production units. Apparently there is no known fault, though somehow they could offer a potential repair solution after they had asked for my cameras serial number – suggesting there must be, I hadn't even sent them the picture or video of the fault, nor asked. Though the brief description and serial number was enough info to give a suspected cause/repair suggesting I must not be the only one! The GR line is my favourite camera, going back to the film series too, love em. But back there too I was plagued with a lovely camera that annoyingly would just seemingly fall to pieces and functionality too after not much use. Great cameras but something gives in there design or manufacturing of photographic tools that can be used seriously without knowing that eventually something is going to go wrong. Only my experience of course, but it has been my experience with 3 of there cameras, the film GR1+GR1v and GR > as in every GR camera I have owned and used has faulted way before it had ever been used up to what its life span should be. And of course the only cameras I have ever had issues with too, shame indeed. Certainly love-hate. So I am left with a GR I can not rely on for more than a few shots, unless I wanna play torsion with it (or smash it as my partner thought I was about to do with it-was close for sure). Not too impressed with the response I had. Of course out of warranty, of course I am not going to get them admitting to a manufacturing-design fault but still, I reckon there is and having to foot the bill on such is a bit sour. In my opinion there is no alternative that compares though...the ricoh GR is that good. Last edited by reeluff; 09-13-2016 at 03:42 AM.

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07-27-2016, 04:22 AM	#3
antipattern Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Berlin, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 232	This might not be the sensor but a broken/loose connector cable. If you feel that you have nothing left to lose, you might as well take the camera apart and check all connections. Maybe that fixes the problem already. I think I have a similar issue with my iPhone (that I bought second hand), but it happens so rarely it's barely worth mentioning. However, I have noticed that the problem tends to happen when the device is very warm and it often goes away if I apply a little pressure to the enclosure. So my hunch is that it's a loose cable/connection that expands during heat. But these are all just guesses.

07-27-2016, 07:16 AM	#4
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Bad memory cards can make weird effects also (and a much more common problem) -- make sure you rule that out first.

07-27-2016, 10:48 AM	#5
Blacknight659 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 731	Originally posted by vonBaloney Bad memory cards can make weird effects also (and a much more common problem) -- make sure you rule that out first. I always buy premium memory cards. I never skimp on this for the fact that I just invested in an awesome camera, I am not about to put a shotty card in my camera that may become corrupted. There is always a risk of corruption any ways, but I try to limit that with a better card. This is the first time I have heard of a bad memory card causing issues with the sensor/screen. I think this is totally possible and could be the issue. Perhaps this camera demands a higher quality card. I hope you try this and I am interested in what you find. I hope it works for you.

07-27-2016, 12:40 PM	#6
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,205	reeluff, I don't know what you want us to say? Your camera has a sensor defect. From your description the longer you have the camera turned on brings out the problem which could be the sensor getting overheated at a certain point to manifest it. I had a Panasonic Lumix LC1 that had a bad sensor. I noticed it right away though. It showed as a vertical line on the LCD. Panasonic replaced the sensor and LCD together as they were both one part. So it is know surprise the GR sensor repair would be handled in the same way. My experience with Panasonic I shipped off the camera they fixed it and it was sent back to me. Sorry your GR is out of warranty. The GR is an excellent camera worthy of repair even at the 240 Euro. The first GR is slightly smaller than the GRII.

07-27-2016, 01:01 PM	#7
Blacknight659 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 731	As it happens, cameras do have problems from time to time. It is frustrating, but as mechanical and electronic things go... they can and do break down. As awesome as this camera is, it is worth the repair as Rico said. Yes it sucks Yes we agree it sucks And Yes, we are all in line to have the same problem in the future with any camera or lens we own. It is just a part of it.

09-13-2016, 03:53 AM	#8
reeluff New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 5 Original Poster	update: My ricoh GR also now exhibits the stuck closed shutter at startup fault - not to mention sensor dust. I stand by my statement that I believe the GR has manufacturing / design faults or at least use poor components that have a pathetic longevity for what is a somewhat premium product / price point. It is falling apart way too soon-easily just like my film GR1 did too.

09-13-2016, 08:10 AM	#9
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,205	Originally posted by reeluff update: My ricoh GR also now exhibits the stuck closed shutter at startup fault - not to mention sensor dust. I stand by my statement that I believe the GR has manufacturing / design faults or at least use poor components that have a pathetic longevity for what is a somewhat premium product / price point. It is falling apart way too soon-easily just like my film GR1 did too. You stand by your statement for your camera. If you had used it more when you bought it you would have realized there was a defect earlier then could have gotten it repaired or replaced under warranty. Now you are SOL.

09-14-2016, 08:16 PM	#10
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Yes, one camera with a problem does not equal an endemic manufacturing fault. Every product has bad samples. Sorry this happened to yours, though!

09-15-2016, 02:45 AM	#11
reeluff New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 5 Original Poster	Well - the stuck shutter seems a common issue so it aint just my one camera is it! Might it be possible that the sensor and shutter issues are related? Heat and low quality components no doubt. How many people with the GR post on forums, I expect a low percent and thus reporting of faults will be low too. I hope it will not happen to anyone else's GR that reads this, though I expect the probability to be quite high. Perhaps it was a design/ manufacture fault in early production units and had since been rectified - I do not know - Ricoh said there was no known issues, I do not expect them to tell the straight truth though. Excuse me for being somewhat annoyed with Ricoh - I have used them since the original GR1 film which also fell to pieces way too soon/easily! Love the camera - there is no alternative in my opinion > hate the manufacturing longevity. Perhaps time to move on now though!

09-15-2016, 07:42 AM	#12
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,205	reeluff let me take a guess here. You noticed early on that your GR had some sort of problem but did nothing about it under warranty. Now your camera is out of warranty so you are all up set now. No manufacture can guarantee perfect product production. That is why there are consumer warranty protection on products. You missed out on that so you have to pay out of pocket. Pentax forums has over 60,000 members. You are one of only a few who have had a problem with the GR. Like I said from the start what do you expect us to say to you? You chose not to send your GR back under warranty. That means you will have to pay to have it fixed now. For the price of the fix the GR is worth repairing. It is less than buying a new camera. And guess what. The repaired camera will have a warranty again.

09-15-2016, 10:26 AM	#13
reeluff New Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 5 Original Poster	No - I have had the camera since it was first released and had my first issue with it this year in April after having done 5.5k shutter releases. A nice gentle easy life. I do not expect anyone to say anything - just having a place to moan I guess. I feel I deserve a bit of a moan - I have had a GR1, GR1v and GR - would you believe they have all had shutter failure! None of them had a hard life, all failing way before perceived expectations. I wouldn't mind paying to repair something that I felt deserves being repaired - but the cost is too high for something that might fail again so easily. I will probably just let my GR die and move on from Ricoh.