bit of a beef with k3

jayman_1975 · 01-27-2015, 09:14 PM

Hi there. I have been noticing something that's got me a little annoyed with the function of the back button focusing. When i have it set to AF2 in buttom customization it eliminates the shutter button auto focus leaving the rear AF button to do the focusing. This is how i prefer it and how i used it on my K5II.

I prefer to have the AFS setting to fire only after achieving focus. On my K5II when i press the rear AF button and instantly fire the shutter, it will not actually fire until the subject is in focus. If i do this and try to focus on a subject that is too close for the lens, it will NOT fire. With the K3 set up the same way, pressing rear AF button then instantly firing shutter it WILL fire even though subject isn't yet in focus. I can try and focus too close for the lens and it WILL fire. The ONLY way i can have it actually wait until focus is achieved is to set it to AF1 in the button customization and then use either the shutter button or rear AF to focus and then shutter to fire. With this setting it will NOT fire until focus is achieved. Would someone please test this with their K3 and let me know if it works this way on theirs too? If this is the case then the ideal setting using the rear AF button and disabling the shutter AF allows the K3 to fire at will even though focus ISN'T achieved. I feel that this will contribute to many blurry shots when trying to photograph candid people shots.

vonBaloney · 01-27-2015, 09:38 PM

On the other models there is another menu setting for "focus priority" or "release priority". Setting it to focus priority is the behavior you want, while release priority shoots when you hit the shutter no matter what. I'm sure the K-3 must have that same option? (I don't think it matter if you use rear button focus or not.)

**jatrax** · 01-27-2015, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

On the other models there is another menu setting for "focus priority" or "release priority". Setting it to focus priority is the behavior you want, while release priority shoots when you hit the shutter no matter what. I'm sure the K-3 must have that same option? (I don't think it matter if you use rear button focus or not.)

The k-3 does have those options. However, I can confirm the OP. None of those options seem to have any affect when back button AF is on. Surely that is not the way it is supposed to work but I cannot find any option or set of options to prevent the camera taking the shot in focus or not.

vonBaloney · 01-27-2015, 09:44 PM

Yeah, found this:

K-3 Back Button AF Bug - RIAC Community

Sounds like it needs a firmware fix.

**jatrax** · 01-27-2015, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

Yeah, found this:

K-3 Back Button AF Bug - RIAC Community

Sounds like it needs a firmware fix.

That seems to be about CIF, but it must be related somehow as CIF does not work with BB AF either.

jayman_1975 · 01-27-2015, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

The k-3 does have those options. However, I can confirm the OP. None of those options seem to have any affect when back button AF is on. Surely that is not the way it is supposed to work but I cannot find any option or set of options to prevent the camera taking the shot in focus or not.

Ok good I was hoping mine wasn't the only one acting this way. It works perfectly on my K5II but seems to be a software mishap on the K3

vonBaloney · 01-27-2015, 10:07 PM

Sounds annoying. Is your firmware up to date? I'd send some messages to Ricoh about it -- maybe they'll fix it eventually. Plus that isn't a change I'd want to see happen going forward with other models. Hopefully it is not intentional (or they change their mind). (Still planning on getting my K-3 one of these days.)

**jatrax** · 01-27-2015, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by jayman_1975

It works perfectly on my K5II but seems to be a software mishap on the K3

Ok, I just pulled out the k-5IIs and it is operating the same as the k-3. No matter what I do it takes an image whether in focus or not if BB AF is on. jayman what settings are you using on the k-5II?

sundr · 01-27-2015, 10:21 PM

I can confirm. My K3 works the same way and I do have both AFS and AFC set to focus priority.

stevebrot · 01-27-2015, 10:35 PM

This was discussed in depth a few months back. There is a work-around that allows similar, though not identical functionality as with the K-5.

Steve

jayman_1975 · 01-27-2015, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

Ok, I just pulled out the k-5IIs and it is operating the same as the k-3. No matter what I do it takes an image whether in focus or not if BB AF is on. jayman what settings are you using on the k-5II?

K5II set to back button AF. AFS set to focus priority. If I try auto focus closer than the lens will allow, as long as Im holding the AF down I could press the shutter button all day long and it will not fire

---------- Post added 01-27-15 at 11:59 PM ----------

On the k3 with the AF set to AF2..... It should be the same set up as the K5II whereas only the BB does AF and shutter only fires. But on the k3 in the same scenario trying to focus shorter than the lens will allow, while I'm holding the AF down I could fire as many times as I want taking blurry as heck picks. To the K3 I say "bad form!"

---------- Post added 01-28-15 at 12:03 AM ----------

Originally posted by stevebrot

This was discussed in depth a few months back. There is a work-around that allows similar, though not identical functionality as with the K-5.

Steve

Yeah the work around is set the AF to AF1. But then the shutter also focuses, but it will not fire until subject is in focus..... Again, I could do a drum solo on that shutter button but if the subject isn't in focus it won't fire. That's how it should work with AF2 as well.

stevebrot · 01-27-2015, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by jayman_1975

Yeah the work around is set the AF to AF1.

No, that was not the workaround. I suppose I will have to find the thread and provide the link to the pertinent comments. This is not a use case I have found helpful for my flow, though I will concede there is useful for some users.

Steve

stevebrot · 01-27-2015, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by jayman_1975

That's how it should work with AF2 as well.

The solution is to set to AF2 and not expect CIF in that mode. The suggestion is to set up separate user modes for CIF and back-button focus. In my mind, CIF makes no sense when using back-button focus. The intent is to decouple AF from shutter release and CIF is the opposite of that.

I was unable to find the thread where the rational of why the K-3 is the way it is in this regards, but IIRC, the reason had to do with the various AF improvements over the K-5 series.

Steve

sundr · 01-28-2015, 03:31 AM - **1 Like**

I fail to see this as a bug, after all, the K5 doesn't even have an AF2 option like the K3, that is BB AF only. I don't know about the K5ii/s. It seems to me that when using BB AF, I'm looking for focus confirmation before pressing the shutter anyway, so, I never even noticed this before.

jayman_1975 · 01-28-2015, 05:32 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by sundr

I fail to see this as a bug, after all, the K5 doesn't even have an AF2 option like the K3, that is BB AF only. I don't know about the K5ii/s. It seems to me that when using BB AF, I'm looking for focus confirmation before pressing the shutter anyway, so, I never even noticed this before.

Most of the time I too am awaiting focus confirmation but like I said earlier when there are a house full of kids running around and I'm trying to catch candid shots I usually press BB AF and shutter together and then the camera will fire as soon as it has focus. I don't get too many out of focus shots this way but with the K3 it will fire at will which pretty much negates the focus priority option for AFS

01-27-2015, 09:14 PM	#1
jayman_1975 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 385	bit of a beef with k3 Hi there. I have been noticing something that's got me a little annoyed with the function of the back button focusing. When i have it set to AF2 in buttom customization it eliminates the shutter button auto focus leaving the rear AF button to do the focusing. This is how i prefer it and how i used it on my K5II. I prefer to have the AFS setting to fire only after achieving focus. On my K5II when i press the rear AF button and instantly fire the shutter, it will not actually fire until the subject is in focus. If i do this and try to focus on a subject that is too close for the lens, it will NOT fire. With the K3 set up the same way, pressing rear AF button then instantly firing shutter it WILL fire even though subject isn't yet in focus. I can try and focus too close for the lens and it WILL fire. The ONLY way i can have it actually wait until focus is achieved is to set it to AF1 in the button customization and then use either the shutter button or rear AF to focus and then shutter to fire. With this setting it will NOT fire until focus is achieved. Would someone please test this with their K3 and let me know if it works this way on theirs too? If this is the case then the ideal setting using the rear AF button and disabling the shutter AF allows the K3 to fire at will even though focus ISN'T achieved. I feel that this will contribute to many blurry shots when trying to photograph candid people shots.

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01-27-2015, 09:38 PM	#2
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	On the other models there is another menu setting for "focus priority" or "release priority". Setting it to focus priority is the behavior you want, while release priority shoots when you hit the shutter no matter what. I'm sure the K-3 must have that same option? (I don't think it matter if you use rear button focus or not.)

01-27-2015, 09:43 PM	#3
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by vonBaloney On the other models there is another menu setting for "focus priority" or "release priority". Setting it to focus priority is the behavior you want, while release priority shoots when you hit the shutter no matter what. I'm sure the K-3 must have that same option? (I don't think it matter if you use rear button focus or not.) The k-3 does have those options. However, I can confirm the OP. None of those options seem to have any affect when back button AF is on. Surely that is not the way it is supposed to work but I cannot find any option or set of options to prevent the camera taking the shot in focus or not.

01-27-2015, 09:44 PM	#4
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Yeah, found this: K-3 Back Button AF Bug - RIAC Community Sounds like it needs a firmware fix.

01-27-2015, 09:47 PM	#5
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by vonBaloney Yeah, found this: K-3 Back Button AF Bug - RIAC Community Sounds like it needs a firmware fix. That seems to be about CIF, but it must be related somehow as CIF does not work with BB AF either.

01-27-2015, 09:52 PM	#6
jayman_1975 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 385 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax The k-3 does have those options. However, I can confirm the OP. None of those options seem to have any affect when back button AF is on. Surely that is not the way it is supposed to work but I cannot find any option or set of options to prevent the camera taking the shot in focus or not. Ok good I was hoping mine wasn't the only one acting this way. It works perfectly on my K5II but seems to be a software mishap on the K3

01-27-2015, 10:07 PM	#7
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Sounds annoying. Is your firmware up to date? I'd send some messages to Ricoh about it -- maybe they'll fix it eventually. Plus that isn't a change I'd want to see happen going forward with other models. Hopefully it is not intentional (or they change their mind). (Still planning on getting my K-3 one of these days.)

01-27-2015, 10:12 PM	#8
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by jayman_1975 It works perfectly on my K5II but seems to be a software mishap on the K3 Ok, I just pulled out the k-5IIs and it is operating the same as the k-3. No matter what I do it takes an image whether in focus or not if BB AF is on. jayman what settings are you using on the k-5II?

01-27-2015, 10:21 PM	#9
sundr Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 123	I can confirm. My K3 works the same way and I do have both AFS and AFC set to focus priority.

01-27-2015, 10:35 PM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	This was discussed in depth a few months back. There is a work-around that allows similar, though not identical functionality as with the K-5. Steve

01-27-2015, 10:54 PM	#11
jayman_1975 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 385 Original Poster	Originally posted by jatrax Ok, I just pulled out the k-5IIs and it is operating the same as the k-3. No matter what I do it takes an image whether in focus or not if BB AF is on. jayman what settings are you using on the k-5II? K5II set to back button AF. AFS set to focus priority. If I try auto focus closer than the lens will allow, as long as Im holding the AF down I could press the shutter button all day long and it will not fire ---------- Post added 01-27-15 at 11:59 PM ---------- On the k3 with the AF set to AF2..... It should be the same set up as the K5II whereas only the BB does AF and shutter only fires. But on the k3 in the same scenario trying to focus shorter than the lens will allow, while I'm holding the AF down I could fire as many times as I want taking blurry as heck picks. To the K3 I say "bad form!" ---------- Post added 01-28-15 at 12:03 AM ---------- Originally posted by stevebrot This was discussed in depth a few months back. There is a work-around that allows similar, though not identical functionality as with the K-5. Steve Yeah the work around is set the AF to AF1. But then the shutter also focuses, but it will not fire until subject is in focus..... Again, I could do a drum solo on that shutter button but if the subject isn't in focus it won't fire. That's how it should work with AF2 as well.

01-27-2015, 11:18 PM	#12
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jayman_1975 Yeah the work around is set the AF to AF1. No, that was not the workaround. I suppose I will have to find the thread and provide the link to the pertinent comments. This is not a use case I have found helpful for my flow, though I will concede there is useful for some users. Steve

01-27-2015, 11:38 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by jayman_1975 That's how it should work with AF2 as well. The solution is to set to AF2 and not expect CIF in that mode. The suggestion is to set up separate user modes for CIF and back-button focus. In my mind, CIF makes no sense when using back-button focus. The intent is to decouple AF from shutter release and CIF is the opposite of that. I was unable to find the thread where the rational of why the K-3 is the way it is in this regards, but IIRC, the reason had to do with the various AF improvements over the K-5 series. Steve

01-28-2015, 03:31 AM - 1 Like	#14
sundr Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 123	I fail to see this as a bug, after all, the K5 doesn't even have an AF2 option like the K3, that is BB AF only. I don't know about the K5ii/s. It seems to me that when using BB AF, I'm looking for focus confirmation before pressing the shutter anyway, so, I never even noticed this before.

01-28-2015, 05:32 AM - 1 Like	#15
jayman_1975 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 385 Original Poster	Originally posted by sundr I fail to see this as a bug, after all, the K5 doesn't even have an AF2 option like the K3, that is BB AF only. I don't know about the K5ii/s. It seems to me that when using BB AF, I'm looking for focus confirmation before pressing the shutter anyway, so, I never even noticed this before. Most of the time I too am awaiting focus confirmation but like I said earlier when there are a house full of kids running around and I'm trying to catch candid shots I usually press BB AF and shutter together and then the camera will fire as soon as it has focus. I don't get too many out of focus shots this way but with the K3 it will fire at will which pretty much negates the focus priority option for AFS