How do you deal with your models?

micromacro · 09-02-2014, 05:57 AM

It's nothing about pro models.
It's about ordinary people, in my case family members.

Last weekend I brought the camera to the family party to practice with human models instead of cats

It's easy and fun to take pictures of kids, not that difficult to deal with men. It's totally different about women of certain age.

I had three of them, all at the age over 50.
#1 hates when someone takes pictures of her.
#2 is "freezes" in the front of camera trying to "model", but it does not do her any favor, and makes it so difficult for me to "relax" her.
#3 simply does not care whatever I do, she just does not change a bit, and she is an easiest model ever.

As the result I took very few pictures #1 when she was unaware , and ended up with only 1 good picture.
I took at least 20 pictures of #2, and again got only 1 good picture.
I took about 10 pictures of #3, and got 7 great pictures of her.

How do you deal with difficult models to get as much good work as possible? Being a woman who hates to be photographed because I'm both #1 and #2 myself

, I understand those two, why they don't feel comfortable being photographed.
I just have no idea how to change that.
Any thoughts?

Last edited by micromacro; 09-02-2014 at 06:03 AM.

Na Horuk · 09-02-2014, 06:30 AM

uh.. background music, a reassuring smile, and alcohol?
I have no idea. But I knew many pretty women (and some men, too) who would do those things in front of camera, and then they would say they are not photogenic. But actually, they could be. This is why modelling, even though it is sometimes ridiculed as easy, is a hard job and takes skills. And this is why photography is a hard job, too, as the photographer you have to try to find those good angles and light so the model has minimum chance of messing it up. I remember one portrait photographer who had it down to a science. X on the floor, light setup around, mirror in front of him so the models would see themselves.

halfspin · 09-02-2014, 06:33 AM

Tell them there's no film in your camera.

**sholtzma** · 09-02-2014, 06:36 AM

Have they seen portraits you've taken that flatter your subjects? (Say, portraits of #3.) That might be an entree for you to discuss how you would like to make photos of them. I prefer unposed portraits myself, so I'm more concerned if people aren't comfortable with someone holding a large black camera and lens. My subjects don't necessarily have to "do" anything, much like your #3. You say that you share the anxieties of #1 and #2. What would help for you (as subject) to hear from a photographer snapping away at you, especially a female photographer? Choices of when photos are taken? Veto power over photos kept versus deleted?

micromacro · 09-02-2014, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

I remember one portrait photographer who had it down to a science. X on the floor, light setup around, mirror in front of him so the models would see themselves.

It's a great idea, I may try it on #2 when she visits our house. Definitely will not work with #1, may be I can "relax" her with time. Family is just getting used into my annoying shoots, but they already call me mamarazzo.

---------- Post added 09-02-14 at 07:02 AM ----------

Originally posted by sholtzma

Have they seen portraits you've taken that flatter your subjects? (Say, portraits of #3.) That might be an entree for you to discuss how you would like to make photos of them. I prefer unposed portraits myself, so I'm more concerned if people aren't comfortable with someone holding a large black camera and lens. My subjects don't necessarily have to "do" anything, much like your #3. You say that you share the anxieties of #1 and #2. What would help for you (as subject) to hear from a photographer snapping away at you, especially a female photographer? Choices of when photos are taken? Veto power over photos kept versus deleted?

Yes, they saw #3 on the small camera screen, liked that, but because "she is so photogenic, not like me".

For me as a subject, I'm afraid, nothing can help before I lose those ugly 20 pounds

I understand, it's all personal issue, but partly.
I used to have a friend who got into photography, and she insisted photo shoots of me on the beach. I thought it would be great with her Canon Mark . Wrong. She printed the ugliest portrait of me ever, in big format, close up.

Great quality, awesome lens, nice work, everything great except of myself. And yes, I can not pose in the front of camera. I'm like paralyzed and feel so stupid.
Perhaps, someone who will show me a good work and whom I can trust... Well, maybe. I doubt I can get rid of feeling stupid in the front of camera.

Na Horuk · 09-02-2014, 08:06 AM

Another thing that might help is if you have a good idea, a vision of what kind of photo you want from your model. That can help you guide them. And its also good if you know some basic modelling tricks, like a stance, expression. If the model doesn't know, its great if at least the photographer does.
If you are both just doing random things, trying to catch a nice shot, it will be.. well, random and rare

MD Optofonik · 09-02-2014, 08:40 AM

Threats of bodily injury?

A waist level finder?

Honestly, your ratio of good to bad is actually pretty good.

I feel like you might be confusing the term "model" with "subject" in this instance. A model is someone who is the willing subject of the artist's work and whose participation is governed through the artist's direction. The primary requirement in being a model is following that direction. That has always been nature of the relationship between artist and model, no matter the "level", professional or amateur. Simply choosing to make someone the subject of your photographs does not make that subject a model. All models are subjects but not all subjects are models.

As for "difficult" models? There are none. None that get work anyway.

Perhaps joining a photography club or taking a seminar where a model is provided for the participants would provide the opportunity you're looking for.

Last edited by MD Optofonik; 09-02-2014 at 09:04 AM.

micromacro · 09-02-2014, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Another thing that might help is if you have a good idea, a vision of what kind of photo you want from your model. That can help you guide them. And its also good if you know some basic modelling tricks, like a stance, expression. If the model doesn't know, its great if at least the photographer does.
If you are both just doing random things, trying to catch a nice shot, it will be.. well, random and rare

I have no clue about modeling tricks, but is may be a good idea to read something about it just for myself. If I tell women over 50 to do some modeling tricks for me, knowing them I'm pretty sure they just will laugh.

I know what I want - to show #1 and #2 how beautiful they really are. Because they are.

---------- Post added 09-02-14 at 08:56 AM ----------

Originally posted by sholtzma

Have they seen portraits you've taken that flatter your subjects?

Yes, not confusing actually, I can not call my girls subjects

"Models".

antipattern · 09-02-2014, 09:03 AM

I wouldn't say I can convince any other person to take pictures of them, but usually I found that a combination of the following tends to work:

I introduce myself, and explain that I take my camera everywhere I go, and take photos of nearly everyone I meet.
I start with taking photographs of other things first, e.g. the glass in front of me, a tree, etc. People get accustomed to me taking photographs, the shutter noise, and they feel less like they're in the centre of attention.
I never pressure anyone. If someone doesn't want their pictures to be taken, that's fine, and I'm trying to be as clear about this as I can. Even if I can't take photos this time, maybe I can next time, once they trust me enough. Also, others see that I don't pressure people and feel more relaxed.
I share my results pretty much straight away. Sometimes I take photographs that I like but my subject doesn't. Then I tell them and carefully suggest that I actually quite like it. Most of the time they concede that it's actually not that bad. (many people have an automatic response of not liking any of the pictures anyone takes of them, even though they are actually quite photogenic). But if they don't I'll let them know that I won't use it (unlike what your friend did).
sometimes I give them my camera and let them take a few pictures. I explain the basics of taking photographs, like aperture, iso and shutter speed, they can try them out and see the results. They get a feel for what it's like and there is less distance between me and them.
Also, I'm pretty persistent. If someone doesn't feel like having their pictures taken one day, they might feel fine the next time around. Also, people who don't regularly have their photos taken are often the most sceptical. If you're not used to seeing your face on still photographs, it's a bit strange and you suddenly become very self-aware and self-conscious. This in turn makes you less likely to have your pictures taken. But once you do it more often, you look at it differently. Many people don't actually fit the traditional beauty stereotype. Whether it's a few pounds extra, grey hair, a bit of a weird smile, a few spots here and there - whatever it is. But we're people after all, none of us are perfect, which makes photography so interesting. If it's not about that, I might as well take photographs of dolls or furniture instead. I try reminding people of that.

So I think, in conclusion, the two key things are trust and patience. Often they get you the photographs you want and hopfully your subjects will apreciate them, too. Sometimes they still object, but that's fine - just giving them the space helps you build up trust and practices your patience.

bdery · 09-02-2014, 09:30 AM

Here's what I do (I am not an expert, however)

1-discuss the session with them beforehand
2-make a few "lighting tests" where they just stand there getting used to the studio
3-use an app (Posing App is a good one) that shows many possibles postures and select a few that I show them, so they can try it
4-give frequent feedback, show them the results on the LCD, tell them what I would change and why (shoulder, head tilted, etc)
5-be quite directive about what I want. they prefer to be told what to do than to be let to themselves
6-start with simple postures, and build on it

delegopa · 09-02-2014, 09:38 AM

I tend to tell some jokes or (pretend to) work on the camera setup etc. When they relax or laugh I strike.

Provoking different emotions can be easier when you are familiar with the subject.
Some of my friends dont like to be photographed. Then I start by taking pictures of the others until I tell them they are the only ones missing. Explaining your vision for the shot helps alot aswell.
Usually most are cooperative, but I still need to work on the range of poses that come to my mind...
The most annoying is the automatic "say cheese" poses some keep on doing^^

micromacro · 09-02-2014, 09:50 AM

antipattern, yes all that will work for strangers. Actually, I have done the most of that with someone's little adorable 2 y.o. girl, then I sent to parents the best pictures, and they were happy. I'm trying to be as much as possible careful with strangers, and I don't post their pictures anywhere, it's only for training purposes and fun.

bdery, I've never heard about Posing app, thanks. It will work perfectly with girls around 7-9 y.o. on next party. At least one of them is crazy about photography, I let her use my light and small Canon when we meet. She tries to pose like a model and take "fashion" shoots of her sisters. It's so funny! As I told, kids are so easy to take pictures of them.

---------- Post added 09-02-14 at 09:59 AM ----------

Originally posted by delegopa

The most annoying is the automatic "say cheese" poses some keep on doing^^

Yep, I can not stand that "cheese". When they try that, I just say "just ignore me, I'm not here, no posing"

I wanted to know if some "photo psychology" exists.

To make women feel good about how they look on pictures and stop being uncomfortable in the front of camera. If I get some ideas, I let you know how it will end.
I believe it's pretty common issue with women around 50-s. The transition to accept changes is not pleasant sometimes. And modern cameras are often cruel

VisualDarkness · 09-02-2014, 11:40 AM

I had never ever really done portraiture, until about six months ago when I ended up the responsible for photography in my student association. The last couple of weeks I've done hundreds of portraits in different settings.

The main thing I've found out is the value of pepping the subjects, scream fun things, saying how beautiful they look (they do look wonderful, they just don't know it) and just appear confident yourself. As soon as you look to be in discomfort with the situation, the model will feel it too. Better to just continue to non-stop talk and encourage than wait for the setting to fall into that awkward silence.

Really good portrait photographers impress me immensely.