Electronic Shutter

yygomez · 08-25-2016, 12:36 PM

Does the K1 has some sort of electronic shutter?
Thanks
Jorge.

MJKoski · 08-25-2016, 12:38 PM - **1 Like**

It does in Pixel-Shift mode. Other than that, no. Kind of shame.

yygomez · 08-25-2016, 01:14 PM

I'll be waiting to the implementation, maybe they can do it via firmware, if not I'll have to wait to the next iteration, I think is very important, at least first curtain, in order to unleash the full potential of the sensor IQ

**RobA_Oz** · 08-25-2016, 01:22 PM

I presume there's a reason why it hasn't been implemented outside of pixel shift, but I've no idea what that might be. There are several situations in which it could be quite useful, including where vibration sources need to be minimised. The fact that it is used in pixel shift means a firmware implementation is possible. I'll leave it to the more knowledgeable to speculate on why we don't have it now.

MJKoski · 08-25-2016, 01:42 PM

D810 using the same sensor has EFCS in Mirror Up -mode. But then one can guess if it is really the same sensor. As A7R1 from Sony does not have EFCS either ("same" 36MP chip). Standard A7 mk1 had one.

Adam · 08-25-2016, 02:05 PM

My guess would be that they'll add it in the next model. It's a nice feature to have, but not critical.

MJKoski · 08-25-2016, 02:18 PM

Not that critical with large mass body but very critical in Sony's MILC offerings. D810 also makes good use of it when shutter speed is between 1/100 and 1 second when using longer lenses.

photoptimist · 08-25-2016, 02:40 PM - **1 Like**

An electronic curtain that maintains sensor IQ is hard to implement. With a physical shutter, the sensor sits in total darkness and the pixels can be kept at near zero charge so that they can more accurately measure very low levels of light. But if the physical shutter is kept open, the sensor is just one giant solar cell. The electronic shutter circuitry attempts to drain off that excess charge but it's never perfect.

An electronic shutter can work relatively well for Pixel-Shift mode because: 1) the time the sensor spends in the light before the next exposure is pretty short (under 1/4 second), and 2) the adjacent pixel location is probably of similar brightness to the first location so any slight smearing from imperfect draining of the charge isn't going to be as noticeable. It can also work well in the way Nikon uses it on the D810 as part of mirror-up mode, non-liveview shooting in which the sensor is only exposed to excess light for about 1/250 of second during which the camera is almost stationary.

Scobra · 08-25-2016, 09:07 PM

Electronic shutters come into their own in timelapse photography, where a few long timelapse shoots can substantially erode your mechanical shutter lifespan. Mechanical shutters are said to have (slightly) less consistent exposure times too, adding to timelapse flicker. So yes, please Pentax, introduce electronic shutter if you can.

stevebrot · 09-06-2016, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by photoptimist

But if the physical shutter is kept open, the sensor is just one giant solar cell. The electronic shutter circuitry attempts to drain off that excess charge but it's never perfect.

Well put...well put indeed

Steve

stevebrot · 09-06-2016, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by MJKoski

D810 also makes good use of it when shutter speed is between 1/100 and 1 second when using longer lenses.

I have some familiarity with the D810 and knew that EFC is available in Mup mode, but was unaware it is used in other situations. Is that an undocumented feature?

Steve

**clackers** · 09-06-2016, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by photoptimist

An electronic curtain that maintains sensor IQ is hard to implement.

Yeah, there are plenty of P&S cameras without mechanical shutters, but we bought DSLRs for image quality and we need to know the design suits, without artefacts or lag:

Electronic VS mechanical shutter | JuzaPhoto

http://m43photo.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/gh3-electronic-shutter.html

stevebrot · 09-06-2016, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by clackers

Yeah, there are plenty of P&S cameras without mechanical shutters, but we bought DSLRs for image quality and we need to know the design suits, without artefacts or lag:

Electronic VS mechanical shutter | JuzaPhoto

Micro 4/3rds Photography: GH3 electronic shutter

Oh, my! That article on the GH3 electronic shutter is an eye opener. Thanks for the links.

Steve

MJKoski · 09-07-2016, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I have some familiarity with the D810 and knew that EFC is available in Mup mode, but was unaware it is used in other situations. Is that an undocumented feature?

Steve

My bad, I meant that there is a benefit of using EFCS with D810 with such exposure times.

08-25-2016, 12:36 PM	#1
yygomez Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Surfside,FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 155	Electronic Shutter Does the K1 has some sort of electronic shutter? Thanks Jorge.

08-25-2016, 02:05 PM	#6
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	My guess would be that they'll add it in the next model. It's a nice feature to have, but not critical. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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08-25-2016, 12:38 PM - 1 Like	#2
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	It does in Pixel-Shift mode. Other than that, no. Kind of shame.

08-25-2016, 01:14 PM	#3
yygomez Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Surfside,FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 155 Original Poster	I'll be waiting to the implementation, maybe they can do it via firmware, if not I'll have to wait to the next iteration, I think is very important, at least first curtain, in order to unleash the full potential of the sensor IQ

08-25-2016, 01:22 PM	#4
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,191	I presume there's a reason why it hasn't been implemented outside of pixel shift, but I've no idea what that might be. There are several situations in which it could be quite useful, including where vibration sources need to be minimised. The fact that it is used in pixel shift means a firmware implementation is possible. I'll leave it to the more knowledgeable to speculate on why we don't have it now.

08-25-2016, 01:42 PM	#5
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	D810 using the same sensor has EFCS in Mirror Up -mode. But then one can guess if it is really the same sensor. As A7R1 from Sony does not have EFCS either ("same" 36MP chip). Standard A7 mk1 had one.

08-25-2016, 02:18 PM	#7
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	Not that critical with large mass body but very critical in Sony's MILC offerings. D810 also makes good use of it when shutter speed is between 1/100 and 1 second when using longer lenses.

08-25-2016, 02:40 PM - 1 Like	#8
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,121	An electronic curtain that maintains sensor IQ is hard to implement. With a physical shutter, the sensor sits in total darkness and the pixels can be kept at near zero charge so that they can more accurately measure very low levels of light. But if the physical shutter is kept open, the sensor is just one giant solar cell. The electronic shutter circuitry attempts to drain off that excess charge but it's never perfect. An electronic shutter can work relatively well for Pixel-Shift mode because: 1) the time the sensor spends in the light before the next exposure is pretty short (under 1/4 second), and 2) the adjacent pixel location is probably of similar brightness to the first location so any slight smearing from imperfect draining of the charge isn't going to be as noticeable. It can also work well in the way Nikon uses it on the D810 as part of mirror-up mode, non-liveview shooting in which the sensor is only exposed to excess light for about 1/250 of second during which the camera is almost stationary.

08-25-2016, 09:07 PM	#9
Scobra Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 56	Electronic shutters come into their own in timelapse photography, where a few long timelapse shoots can substantially erode your mechanical shutter lifespan. Mechanical shutters are said to have (slightly) less consistent exposure times too, adding to timelapse flicker. So yes, please Pentax, introduce electronic shutter if you can.

09-06-2016, 12:26 PM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by photoptimist But if the physical shutter is kept open, the sensor is just one giant solar cell. The electronic shutter circuitry attempts to drain off that excess charge but it's never perfect. Well put...well put indeed Steve

09-06-2016, 12:36 PM	#11
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by MJKoski D810 also makes good use of it when shutter speed is between 1/100 and 1 second when using longer lenses. I have some familiarity with the D810 and knew that EFC is available in Mup mode, but was unaware it is used in other situations. Is that an undocumented feature? Steve

09-06-2016, 06:50 PM	#12
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by photoptimist An electronic curtain that maintains sensor IQ is hard to implement. Yeah, there are plenty of P&S cameras without mechanical shutters, but we bought DSLRs for image quality and we need to know the design suits, without artefacts or lag: Electronic VS mechanical shutter \| JuzaPhoto http://m43photo.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/gh3-electronic-shutter.html

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09-06-2016, 10:42 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by clackers Yeah, there are plenty of P&S cameras without mechanical shutters, but we bought DSLRs for image quality and we need to know the design suits, without artefacts or lag: Electronic VS mechanical shutter \| JuzaPhoto Micro 4/3rds Photography: GH3 electronic shutter Oh, my! That article on the GH3 electronic shutter is an eye opener. Thanks for the links. Steve

09-07-2016, 06:20 AM	#14
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	Originally posted by stevebrot I have some familiarity with the D810 and knew that EFC is available in Mup mode, but was unaware it is used in other situations. Is that an undocumented feature? Steve My bad, I meant that there is a benefit of using EFCS with D810 with such exposure times.