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DaryleTilroe · 07-20-2008, 05:36 PM

So I've just started to shop for a new P&S a few weeks ago to supplant/replace my venerable, 5 year old, OptioS. I posted some initial comments in another Pentax forum that I will quote now (keep reading for new info):

I really wanted to like this camera! I've been a Pentax guy since my KX and later cheaper PZ20. Five years ago I got into the digital age and purchased an OptioS. I've been rather happy with it; enough so it is what I have been mostly shooting with up till now. Figuring it was finally time to upgrade I noticed the W60 just out and the specs looked really nice: waterproof, -10C, 10MP, 1280x720 movies with zoom and AF, 7x optical zoom, etc. I picked one up last week to test drive.
My first impressions have been really disappointing.

Outdoor shots were lackluster. Not the clarity improvement I was expecting from a newer technology lens and 3x the resolution. However worse was to come.

I took some of the movies and thought there was something horribly wrong with my camera mic until I realized the loud clicking was the AF. The zoom "whirr" is also unacceptably loud. Basically fixed zoom and focus are required unless you are going to replace the audio track on your movies.

The worst for me was the horrible indoor performance, probably mostly due to a pathetic flash (again I thought the old Optio S was a little weak and technology had progressed).

I took many comparable scenes and if I let the W60 set its ISO high enough to get a decent exposure with the flash, the noise was atrocious and the detail was horrid. I tried setting the resolution to the same but to no avail. Nothing could make up for the flash and possibly inferior optics. This last contention is evidenced by circular artifacts on many of the photos. I believe they could be from the internal reflections behind the plastic lens cover.

I wanted to experiment some more but the final disappointment was the battery. The life is rather short. In this larger camera why did they stick the anemic D-LI78 680mAh cell? My ancient S has a 710mAh D-LI8 and the new S12 has a 1000mAh D-LI68; both of which are smaller cameras.

It is mostly the interior performance makes no sense to me. I'd love for someone point out something stupid I am doing and how I can get the W60 to take as good a shots as the archaic Optio S. One thing I'd note is that the W60 shutter stays quite fast with the flash as well, 1/60 to 1/100 as compared to the Optio S's 1/40 to 1/60 on most of the lower light shots. As I mentioned I the battery ran out before I could experiment enough to quite figure this out. Anyhow I have until Sunday to return the camera and I think I will run out of time and have to do just that .

Sample pictures...

Picasa Web Albums - Daryle - Option S vs W60

Note especially the first one of the old OptioS you can really see the additional detail, particularly in the skirt pattern. You can also note the photo properties and see if you see anything really out of whack.

DaryleTilroe wrote:

> I'd note is that the W60 shutter stays quite fast with the flash as
> well, 1/60 to 1/100 as compared to the Optio S's 1/40 to 1/60 on most
> of the lower light shots. As I mentioned I the battery ran out
> before I could experiment enough to quite figure this out. Anyhow I
> have until Sunday to return the camera and I think I will run out of
> time and have to do just that .

OK just before I run off to work... My battery charged overnight and I messed around this AM. I think the shutter speed floor is forced as a function of the zoom to prevent shake at higher zooms. I have not yet found a way for the user to override this. Also I have not yet found a reference to what the Sharpness, Contrast, and Saturation do, I probably being a noob but I'd guess it is purely DSP on the image after exposure. In any event they don't seem to help with my indoor shots; neither does the digital shake reduction.

New info...

So I realize that this camera was probably not in its element shooting indoors (notwithstanding the fact that the user should be able to crank the exposure time at higher zooms; firmware update?). As luck would have it the family was heading up to the Alberta Open Sandsculpture Championships at Slave Lake yesterday. The W60 should have been in its element..... OMG!!!!

The crisp, high contrast, setting highlighted some severe problems. The left 1/8 or so of the frame was consistently out of focus or blurry. This was exacerbated at higher zooms. I also had problems with the center weighted exposure not really getting the darker areas of scenes bright enough and also the white balance seemed a bit off. The last two items could just be some tweaking or experience; however the first suggested that I had some sort of lemon with a poorly aligned sensor.

Today I went back in and swapped for another. I wanted to give this P&S another chance before I wrote it off as a POS

.

The good new is this one seems to be better. Some preliminary snapshots suggest the array is better aligned and the shots seem crisper. I also snapped a few indoor ones again and they are a bit better. I would really like to know if I can override the shutter speed, since it seems that at higher zooms they have some sort of undocumented increase of the lower bound on the exposure times of flash shots to reduce blurring due to shake. However due to the noise this causes it is no better than a lower shutter speed. Since a knowledgeable photographer can brace better in a low light, slow shutter speed shot, they should at least allow you to override this "feature".

If I get a chance I'll update the PWA with before and after shots of my lemon experience; or perhaps figure out the gallery feature of this forum

. Another week to decide...

PS: **** I broke the above link by correcting a typo. New PWA link http://picasaweb.google.com/daryletilroe/OptioSVsW60 ****

07-20-2008, 05:36 PM	#6
DaryleTilroe New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Edmonton Gallery Photos: 0 Posts: 5	More W60 Feedback So I've just started to shop for a new P&S a few weeks ago to supplant/replace my venerable, 5 year old, OptioS. I posted some initial comments in another Pentax forum that I will quote now (keep reading for new info): I really wanted to like this camera! I've been a Pentax guy since my KX and later cheaper PZ20. Five years ago I got into the digital age and purchased an OptioS. I've been rather happy with it; enough so it is what I have been mostly shooting with up till now. Figuring it was finally time to upgrade I noticed the W60 just out and the specs looked really nice: waterproof, -10C, 10MP, 1280x720 movies with zoom and AF, 7x optical zoom, etc. I picked one up last week to test drive. My first impressions have been really disappointing. Outdoor shots were lackluster. Not the clarity improvement I was expecting from a newer technology lens and 3x the resolution. However worse was to come. I took some of the movies and thought there was something horribly wrong with my camera mic until I realized the loud clicking was the AF. The zoom "whirr" is also unacceptably loud. Basically fixed zoom and focus are required unless you are going to replace the audio track on your movies. The worst for me was the horrible indoor performance, probably mostly due to a pathetic flash (again I thought the old Optio S was a little weak and technology had progressed). I took many comparable scenes and if I let the W60 set its ISO high enough to get a decent exposure with the flash, the noise was atrocious and the detail was horrid. I tried setting the resolution to the same but to no avail. Nothing could make up for the flash and possibly inferior optics. This last contention is evidenced by circular artifacts on many of the photos. I believe they could be from the internal reflections behind the plastic lens cover. I wanted to experiment some more but the final disappointment was the battery. The life is rather short. In this larger camera why did they stick the anemic D-LI78 680mAh cell? My ancient S has a 710mAh D-LI8 and the new S12 has a 1000mAh D-LI68; both of which are smaller cameras. It is mostly the interior performance makes no sense to me. I'd love for someone point out something stupid I am doing and how I can get the W60 to take as good a shots as the archaic Optio S. One thing I'd note is that the W60 shutter stays quite fast with the flash as well, 1/60 to 1/100 as compared to the Optio S's 1/40 to 1/60 on most of the lower light shots. As I mentioned I the battery ran out before I could experiment enough to quite figure this out. Anyhow I have until Sunday to return the camera and I think I will run out of time and have to do just that . Sample pictures... Picasa Web Albums - Daryle - Option S vs W60 Note especially the first one of the old OptioS you can really see the additional detail, particularly in the skirt pattern. You can also note the photo properties and see if you see anything really out of whack. DaryleTilroe wrote: > I'd note is that the W60 shutter stays quite fast with the flash as > well, 1/60 to 1/100 as compared to the Optio S's 1/40 to 1/60 on most > of the lower light shots. As I mentioned I the battery ran out > before I could experiment enough to quite figure this out. Anyhow I > have until Sunday to return the camera and I think I will run out of > time and have to do just that . OK just before I run off to work... My battery charged overnight and I messed around this AM. I think the shutter speed floor is forced as a function of the zoom to prevent shake at higher zooms. I have not yet found a way for the user to override this. Also I have not yet found a reference to what the Sharpness, Contrast, and Saturation do, I probably being a noob but I'd guess it is purely DSP on the image after exposure. In any event they don't seem to help with my indoor shots; neither does the digital shake reduction. New info... So I realize that this camera was probably not in its element shooting indoors (notwithstanding the fact that the user should be able to crank the exposure time at higher zooms; firmware update?). As luck would have it the family was heading up to the Alberta Open Sandsculpture Championships at Slave Lake yesterday. The W60 should have been in its element..... OMG!!!! The crisp, high contrast, setting highlighted some severe problems. The left 1/8 or so of the frame was consistently out of focus or blurry. This was exacerbated at higher zooms. I also had problems with the center weighted exposure not really getting the darker areas of scenes bright enough and also the white balance seemed a bit off. The last two items could just be some tweaking or experience; however the first suggested that I had some sort of lemon with a poorly aligned sensor. Today I went back in and swapped for another. I wanted to give this P&S another chance before I wrote it off as a POS . The good new is this one seems to be better. Some preliminary snapshots suggest the array is better aligned and the shots seem crisper. I also snapped a few indoor ones again and they are a bit better. I would really like to know if I can override the shutter speed, since it seems that at higher zooms they have some sort of undocumented increase of the lower bound on the exposure times of flash shots to reduce blurring due to shake. However due to the noise this causes it is no better than a lower shutter speed. Since a knowledgeable photographer can brace better in a low light, slow shutter speed shot, they should at least allow you to override this "feature". If I get a chance I'll update the PWA with before and after shots of my lemon experience; or perhaps figure out the gallery feature of this forum . Another week to decide... PS: ** I broke the above link by correcting a typo. New PWA link http://picasaweb.google.com/daryletilroe/OptioSVsW60 ** Last edited by DaryleTilroe; 07-20-2008 at 06:03 PM..