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bjsmith · 08-05-2008, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by joele

I am not sure what you disagree with from my post? I just said that there is more choice for native commercial apps for basic photo processing on Windows than linux (so I apprecaite bibblelabs effort).. you disagree??

I disagree with the phrase very few commercial choices when people think of only the "superstore" model. Once you get past the SOHO aspects, there are many commercial Linux applications, a rather sizable subset of those available for Windows. In some areas of industry,, Windows versions are actually faltering in comparison. They are not SOHO apps, but 4-5 figure applications.

Originally Posted by joele

OK you admit to lightroom, photoshop and elements, political issues are irrelevant to the end user from the perspective of simply saying there is less choice.

But these are applications that get their volume from SOHO users.

Originally Posted by joele

I would have to add to that list rawshooter (though adobe bought this), Capture NX, Capture One, Silverfast, Helicon Filter, PaintShopPro PhotoX2, ulead PhotoImpact, ACDSee Pro, SilkyPix and obviously all the bundled ones from Canon, Pentax, Nikon that all don't run natively on linux.

Again, either bundled or those applications that get most of their volume from SOHO sales, not industrial ones.

Originally Posted by joele

I wish more would add Linux support, and game developers too, and so I wish to commend Bibblelabs on their effort.

Game title companies are pulling out of the PC more and more, so moving to Linux is not going to happen. Loki Entertainment tried and ended up owing more than 7 figures in licensing fees before they went Chapter 7. Heck, open source is becoming more and more of the game development community on the PC in general (regardless of OS).

Again, economies of scale. Where you have economies of scale, you have software you will either find bundled or at the superstore, with regular releases that often only work with certain Windows versions, if not a subset of a version. There quite a number of superstore hardware, drivers, software, etc... that will not run on even the initial XP release these days.

Understand my differentiation. A lot of people commonly use the "very few commercial choices" not realizing when you start talking about software outside the "superstore" economies of scale, and priced 4-5 figures/node, it's quite different. Disney five (5) years ago got tired of having 2-3 computers on thousands upon thousands of graphics desktops, and their sole hold-out was Adobe. So they used WINE and removed everything but Linux, since all of their other apps ran native, and Evolution had developed an Exchange connector (with a Terminal Server login as a fall-back) that removed the only other reason for Windows.

Everyday I see people talk about Linux not having X and not having Y, when it's not true at all. I not only see it, I integrate it for corporations. I've been doing that for over a dozen years now. First it was engineering, then CGI, then financial, now it's taking over the desktop in many industries. I also think people forget that a lot of innovative ideas come out of open source and are in UNIX/Linux applications first, not the other way around. So much so that Microsoft has hired many key Linux developers over the last 5 years to head up new user interface changes. Including several colleagues of mine.

Just last week I was pulled in to do a discovery for a major. household name retail store who is trying to modernize and renovate their in-store customer solutions. E.g., customers who want to remodel their kitchen, including bringing in digital photos. The solutions are out there, and the TCO (total cost of ownership) savings are there, big time, for Linux-based solutions. And that includes when you have both niche, industrial hardware as well as for purchasing advanced, commercial software, which is typically available for both Linux and Windows.

Linux is just never going to cater to the "superstore" consumer. From the hardware vendors wanting to keep their specifications closed so drivers are not perpetual (forcing upgrades with new systems/OSes) to the smaller (and even a few larger -- e.g., Adobe, Intuit) software vendors fearing retribution ("yank the 'Gold Books'") if they release a native Linux port. More and more vendors are officially and purposely building their apps to be WINELIB/WINE compatible, as well as using Mono (open source .NET) libraries instead of Microsoft ones, because they have a rather sizable Linux user-base, but making it WINE/Mono compatible does not cause the wraith of Microsoft.

It's all about the distribution channel, and Microsoft has it. Even Apple has had to deal with that.

08-05-2008, 07:27 AM	#39
bjsmith Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Orlando, Florida (USA) Gallery Photos: 0 Posts: 238	Originally Posted by joele I am not sure what you disagree with from my post? I just said that there is more choice for native commercial apps for basic photo processing on Windows than linux (so I apprecaite bibblelabs effort).. you disagree?? I disagree with the phrase very few commercial choices when people think of only the "superstore" model. Once you get past the SOHO aspects, there are many commercial Linux applications, a rather sizable subset of those available for Windows. In some areas of industry,, Windows versions are actually faltering in comparison. They are not SOHO apps, but 4-5 figure applications. Originally Posted by joele OK you admit to lightroom, photoshop and elements, political issues are irrelevant to the end user from the perspective of simply saying there is less choice. But these are applications that get their volume from SOHO users. Originally Posted by joele I would have to add to that list rawshooter (though adobe bought this), Capture NX, Capture One, Silverfast, Helicon Filter, PaintShopPro PhotoX2, ulead PhotoImpact, ACDSee Pro, SilkyPix and obviously all the bundled ones from Canon, Pentax, Nikon that all don't run natively on linux. Again, either bundled or those applications that get most of their volume from SOHO sales, not industrial ones. Originally Posted by joele I wish more would add Linux support, and game developers too, and so I wish to commend Bibblelabs on their effort. Game title companies are pulling out of the PC more and more, so moving to Linux is not going to happen. Loki Entertainment tried and ended up owing more than 7 figures in licensing fees before they went Chapter 7. Heck, open source is becoming more and more of the game development community on the PC in general (regardless of OS). Again, economies of scale. Where you have economies of scale, you have software you will either find bundled or at the superstore, with regular releases that often only work with certain Windows versions, if not a subset of a version. There quite a number of superstore hardware, drivers, software, etc... that will not run on even the initial XP release these days. Understand my differentiation. A lot of people commonly use the "very few commercial choices" not realizing when you start talking about software outside the "superstore" economies of scale, and priced 4-5 figures/node, it's quite different. Disney five (5) years ago got tired of having 2-3 computers on thousands upon thousands of graphics desktops, and their sole hold-out was Adobe. So they used WINE and removed everything but Linux, since all of their other apps ran native, and Evolution had developed an Exchange connector (with a Terminal Server login as a fall-back) that removed the only other reason for Windows. Everyday I see people talk about Linux not having X and not having Y, when it's not true at all. I not only see it, I integrate it for corporations. I've been doing that for over a dozen years now. First it was engineering, then CGI, then financial, now it's taking over the desktop in many industries. I also think people forget that a lot of innovative ideas come out of open source and are in UNIX/Linux applications first, not the other way around. So much so that Microsoft has hired many key Linux developers over the last 5 years to head up new user interface changes. Including several colleagues of mine. Just last week I was pulled in to do a discovery for a major. household name retail store who is trying to modernize and renovate their in-store customer solutions. E.g., customers who want to remodel their kitchen, including bringing in digital photos. The solutions are out there, and the TCO (total cost of ownership) savings are there, big time, for Linux-based solutions. And that includes when you have both niche, industrial hardware as well as for purchasing advanced, commercial software, which is typically available for both Linux and Windows. Linux is just never going to cater to the "superstore" consumer. From the hardware vendors wanting to keep their specifications closed so drivers are not perpetual (forcing upgrades with new systems/OSes) to the smaller (and even a few larger -- e.g., Adobe, Intuit) software vendors fearing retribution ("yank the 'Gold Books'") if they release a native Linux port. More and more vendors are officially and purposely building their apps to be WINELIB/WINE compatible, as well as using Mono (open source .NET) libraries instead of Microsoft ones, because they have a rather sizable Linux user-base, but making it WINE/Mono compatible does not cause the wraith of Microsoft. It's all about the distribution channel, and Microsoft has it. Even Apple has had to deal with that. __________________ Bryan J Smith, Engineering Consultant, Photography Novice Striving for Amateur Abilities Pentax K20D, AF-360 FGZ, DA 10-17 f/3.5-4.5 FE, DA* 16-50 f/2.8, DA* 50-135 f/2.8, DA 50-200 f/4-5.6, FA 80-320 f/4.5-5.6 Taken with: Pentax K100D, DA 16-45mm f/4 Last edited by bjsmith; 08-05-2008 at 07:37 AM..