DxO continues it's ridiculous coverage of Pentax

normhead · 10-01-2014, 10:10 AM - **2 Likes**

Pentax 645Z Preview ? Pentax?s ?affordable? medium-format digital SLR gets an upgrade - DxOMark

Get this, they claim to preview the 645z.. but they print the test results in the article for the 645D. Not only that they mention the 645D's performance compared to other systems. And comment that it's not encased in a removable back... even though you can buy 4 645zs for the cost of one of those removable backs.

I've always thought these guys were total knobs... but this "Preview" is over the top, at least in my opinion. They should have just said "we haven't tested the camera and we have nothing" which would have been the honest thing to do, instead they pretend to know more than you can read off the Tech Specs on any online site, when they clearly don't know what anyone who has had the camera in their hands does.

I can't believe people quote these knobs. And I challenge you guys who think they aren't biased against Pentax, to find a review anywhere else on their site, where while claiming to "Preview" one camera, they publish test results from it's 4 year old predecessor. I'll wait for answers, but I won't hold my breath.

These guys must be trying to blackmail Pentax into sending them a camera to test.
It's a great business model, pretend to sell software and use the leverage from yourself to blackmail the companies you supposedly "support" into sending you money and gear. It would not be an unreasonable assumption to suppose DxO has asked Pentax for both, and been turned down, from the tone of the article. Why else would they publish a Preview, that says "we don't know anything but we hope to find out?".

tuco · 10-01-2014, 11:21 AM

I think you are over-reacting, Norm. They say they will be testing the new model in the upcoming weeks.

**kiwi_jono** · 10-01-2014, 12:03 PM

While I don't think DXO are incompetent, I do think their priorities lie else where.

What frustrates me is they seem to always have significant mistakes in their specifications for Pentax cameras (especially recent ones). I (and others) have often pointed out mistakes to them on more than one occasion (including leaving comments) but so far have yet to see a mistake corrected. Sure some other brands have errors in their specs but much less so for Canikon cameras.

normhead · 10-01-2014, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by tuco

I think you are over-reacting, Norm. They say they will be testing the new model in the upcoming weeks.

Well take up my challenge then.

Find another page where they claim to "preview" a camera and put up the numbers for a 4 year old previous incarnation. .

It's not enough to just say I'm over-reaticng. I'm actually barely reacting at all.
But if you're going to make the comment, show me I'm wrong.

Either they treat Pentax the same as the others, or they don't.

Or is it "over-reacting " to point out the obvious?
I guess for some people it is.

DxO is a commercial company with a clear interest, to take your money.
People behaving as if they are some kind of impartial scientific community is just wrong.

MarkJerling · 10-01-2014, 12:30 PM

I've found it strange that they rate the K-5ii better than the K-3.

tuco · 10-01-2014, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Well take up my challenge then.

No need. I don't get all upset if someone doesn't give a "glowing review" of the gear I use. And Hell hath no fury like a reviewer saying anything unfavorable about Ricoh/Pentax gear to its die-hard crowd!

It's only camera gear. No need to get all emotional about it.

**monochrome** · 10-01-2014, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by tuco

No need. I don't get all upset if someone doesn't give a "glowing review" of the gear I use. And Hell hath no fury like a reviewer saying anything unfavorable about Ricoh/Pentax gear to its die-hard crowd!

It's only camera gear. No need to get all emotional about it.

But they don't rate the gear they claim in the title!!! I can deal wi negative review - I don't accept false premise.

**Rondec** · 10-01-2014, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by MarkJerling

I've found it strange that they rate the K-5ii better than the K-3.

I think they scored them the same. A difference of two points is not going to be visible in real world shooting.

That said, I don't believe that resolution factors into their scores. Dynamic range, color depth and iso calculations are how they score things.

JinDesu · 10-01-2014, 01:17 PM

At least one person in the comments was confused by the article using the 645D score. They thought that the new 645Z sensor was worse than the D800, because of the comparisons. He realized afterwards and posted a followup comment, but I could see how the article can mislead people a little to think that the 645Z isn't as good as a D800 in sensor performance. Especially if they don't actually follow up anytime soon with a 645Z sensor analysis.

Quote:

That's what I was afraid of.
If this is the same (Sony?) CMOS sensor that appears in the new Hasselblad
51 MP camera similar results can be expected from the Hasselblad.
That would mean that MF is dead and FF is the new MF.
Unless something new happens to MF to change this.

Followed by:

Quote:

My mistake.
DxO previewed the Pentax 645Z and in the same article compared the 645D to Nikon etc. I took it to mean the 645Z. My mistake. Once we get real data from DxO I am guessing that this new Sony sensor will revive the MF camera business.

With regards to them reviewing the 645Z sensor:

Quote:

Hi,
Thank you for your interest in DxOMark. Unfortunately, this camera is not in our road map for now, but we will try to get hands on it.

Sincerely (Sophie)

normhead · 10-01-2014, 02:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by tuco

No need. I don't get all upset if someone doesn't give a "glowing review" of the gear I use. And Hell hath no fury like a reviewer saying anything unfavorable about Ricoh/Pentax gear to its die-hard crowd!

It's only camera gear. No need to get all emotional about it.

OK, what's your angle in defending DxO on this?

They posted a review made up of old stuff, they aren't even interested in doing a proper review... this is clearly a case of the don't plan to support the camera, so they're discouraging their customers from buying it.

How is that in any way an emotional comment?

You seem to be portraying yourself as some kind of voice of reason, when in fact you're an apologist for a commercial company out to make a profit.

How is that the voice of reason?

What is your emotional attachment to this company that you feel you have to call people "emotional" or "all upset" or "over-reacting".

All you do is call names. At least I base my comments on why DxO is doing, not on some irrational evaluation of the mental state of someone I don't even know. Who's the one displaying irrational tendencies here? ... a little hint.. it's you dude.

Learn to call a spade a spade.... DxO isn't supporting the 645z or the lenses that go on it, if you buy one , they lose your business. It will cost them profits if you buy it, so they posted a half assed "review" designed to discredit it.

The irrational person isn't the one who describes accurately what they're doing, the irrational one is the one who can't see the truth.

tuco · 10-01-2014, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by normhead

OK, what's your angle in defending DxO on this?

No angle. I'll wait until they review the Z if they ever do. I'd really like to see the ISO vs DR of that Sony sensor.

**clackers** · 10-01-2014, 05:03 PM - **1 Like**

Such a lazy article.

As one of the comments says:

"The sooner the better, eh, you're already way too late on this one. Please don't let it go the way of every MF Schneider-Kreuznach lens, sitting in "preview" limbo forever solely for your own fear of revealing these things' undeniable IQ superiority to the Canikon world.
We'll give you the benefit of the doubt if you're trying. I mean, if you're having trouble getting your hands on one, just call your local Pentax/Ricoh rep (or Phase One rep in the case of those lenses). I'm sure they wouldn't mind lending you one for a day or two while you get your review together.
If you absolutely do not want to test the 645Z, just do as Bob & Doug do and convert the 645D scores to metric: "Double it and add 30"

calsan · 10-02-2014, 07:30 PM

I'm a bit ambivalent. I have enough experience to know that their numbers don't amount to much when I'm out shooting. I can't imagine anyone in the market for a medium format camera would give two hoots what they say. Even if an m4/3rd camera rated higher than the 645z on their league table, would that even mean anything to anyone except DXO's fan base? You use a camera system for the lenses and the lenses give the look you're after. They can trash my 15 limited (rating 'Poor' and disappointing sharpness) or my 35 (panned for only being f/2.8 - it's a MACRO they're ALL f/2.8 you idiots) but I get the results I want from that gear, so they're irrelevant to me.

Any camera or lens review that doesn't show you the photos they took is like a car review that involves no driving.

**Rondec** · 10-03-2014, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by tuco

No angle. I'll wait until they review the Z if they ever do. I'd really like to see the ISO vs DR of that Sony sensor.

It is a little odd that they would post anything about it until they would actually have the camera in their hands. It isn't clear to me what they have done with this article, except to try to generate more hits to their site.

If they were going to post an article, it should have been an article that says something like "We're excited to evaluate the 645z in xx/xx date" and then just list the features that are known about it. Trying to stick the 645D data into the article is ultra-confusing to me and doesn't make sense at all.

**clackers** · 10-03-2014, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

Trying to stick the 645D data into the article is ultra-confusing to me and doesn't make sense at all.

Yes, Rondec, they were better off with no figures, or at least including graphs from the Hasselblad and Phase One.

BTW, I enjoy your pics and would love to see what you'd do with a 645Z!

10-01-2014, 10:10 AM - 2 Likes	#1
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	DxO continues it's ridiculous coverage of Pentax Pentax 645Z Preview ? Pentax?s ?affordable? medium-format digital SLR gets an upgrade - DxOMark Get this, they claim to preview the 645z.. but they print the test results in the article for the 645D. Not only that they mention the 645D's performance compared to other systems. And comment that it's not encased in a removable back... even though you can buy 4 645zs for the cost of one of those removable backs. I've always thought these guys were total knobs... but this "Preview" is over the top, at least in my opinion. They should have just said "we haven't tested the camera and we have nothing" which would have been the honest thing to do, instead they pretend to know more than you can read off the Tech Specs on any online site, when they clearly don't know what anyone who has had the camera in their hands does. I can't believe people quote these knobs. And I challenge you guys who think they aren't biased against Pentax, to find a review anywhere else on their site, where while claiming to "Preview" one camera, they publish test results from it's 4 year old predecessor. I'll wait for answers, but I won't hold my breath. These guys must be trying to blackmail Pentax into sending them a camera to test. It's a great business model, pretend to sell software and use the leverage from yourself to blackmail the companies you supposedly "support" into sending you money and gear. It would not be an unreasonable assumption to suppose DxO has asked Pentax for both, and been turned down, from the tone of the article. Why else would they publish a Preview, that says "we don't know anything but we hope to find out?".

10-02-2014, 07:30 PM	#13
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,548	I'm a bit ambivalent. I have enough experience to know that their numbers don't amount to much when I'm out shooting. I can't imagine anyone in the market for a medium format camera would give two hoots what they say. Even if an m4/3rd camera rated higher than the 645z on their league table, would that even mean anything to anyone except DXO's fan base? You use a camera system for the lenses and the lenses give the look you're after. They can trash my 15 limited (rating 'Poor' and disappointing sharpness) or my 35 (panned for only being f/2.8 - it's a MACRO they're ALL f/2.8 you idiots) but I get the results I want from that gear, so they're irrelevant to me. Any camera or lens review that doesn't show you the photos they took is like a car review that involves no driving. Last edited by calsan; 10-02-2014 at 07:37 PM.

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10-01-2014, 11:21 AM	#2
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,023	I think you are over-reacting, Norm. They say they will be testing the new model in the upcoming weeks.

10-01-2014, 12:03 PM	#3
kiwi_jono Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,437	While I don't think DXO are incompetent, I do think their priorities lie else where. What frustrates me is they seem to always have significant mistakes in their specifications for Pentax cameras (especially recent ones). I (and others) have often pointed out mistakes to them on more than one occasion (including leaving comments) but so far have yet to see a mistake corrected. Sure some other brands have errors in their specs but much less so for Canikon cameras.

10-01-2014, 12:09 PM	#4
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuco I think you are over-reacting, Norm. They say they will be testing the new model in the upcoming weeks. Well take up my challenge then. Find another page where they claim to "preview" a camera and put up the numbers for a 4 year old previous incarnation. . It's not enough to just say I'm over-reaticng. I'm actually barely reacting at all. But if you're going to make the comment, show me I'm wrong. Either they treat Pentax the same as the others, or they don't. Or is it "over-reacting " to point out the obvious? I guess for some people it is. DxO is a commercial company with a clear interest, to take your money. People behaving as if they are some kind of impartial scientific community is just wrong.

10-01-2014, 12:30 PM	#5
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,402	I've found it strange that they rate the K-5ii better than the K-3.

10-01-2014, 12:43 PM	#6
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,023	Originally posted by normhead Well take up my challenge then. No need. I don't get all upset if someone doesn't give a "glowing review" of the gear I use. And Hell hath no fury like a reviewer saying anything unfavorable about Ricoh/Pentax gear to its die-hard crowd! It's only camera gear. No need to get all emotional about it.

10-01-2014, 12:53 PM	#7
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by tuco No need. I don't get all upset if someone doesn't give a "glowing review" of the gear I use. And Hell hath no fury like a reviewer saying anything unfavorable about Ricoh/Pentax gear to its die-hard crowd! It's only camera gear. No need to get all emotional about it. But they don't rate the gear they claim in the title!!! I can deal wi negative review - I don't accept false premise.

10-01-2014, 01:07 PM	#8
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by MarkJerling I've found it strange that they rate the K-5ii better than the K-3. I think they scored them the same. A difference of two points is not going to be visible in real world shooting. That said, I don't believe that resolution factors into their scores. Dynamic range, color depth and iso calculations are how they score things.

10-01-2014, 01:17 PM	#9
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	At least one person in the comments was confused by the article using the 645D score. They thought that the new 645Z sensor was worse than the D800, because of the comparisons. He realized afterwards and posted a followup comment, but I could see how the article can mislead people a little to think that the 645Z isn't as good as a D800 in sensor performance. Especially if they don't actually follow up anytime soon with a 645Z sensor analysis. Quote: That's what I was afraid of. If this is the same (Sony?) CMOS sensor that appears in the new Hasselblad 51 MP camera similar results can be expected from the Hasselblad. That would mean that MF is dead and FF is the new MF. Unless something new happens to MF to change this. Followed by: Quote: My mistake. DxO previewed the Pentax 645Z and in the same article compared the 645D to Nikon etc. I took it to mean the 645Z. My mistake. Once we get real data from DxO I am guessing that this new Sony sensor will revive the MF camera business. With regards to them reviewing the 645Z sensor: Quote: Hi, Thank you for your interest in DxOMark. Unfortunately, this camera is not in our road map for now, but we will try to get hands on it. Sincerely (Sophie)

10-01-2014, 02:16 PM - 1 Like	#10
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuco No need. I don't get all upset if someone doesn't give a "glowing review" of the gear I use. And Hell hath no fury like a reviewer saying anything unfavorable about Ricoh/Pentax gear to its die-hard crowd! It's only camera gear. No need to get all emotional about it. OK, what's your angle in defending DxO on this? They posted a review made up of old stuff, they aren't even interested in doing a proper review... this is clearly a case of the don't plan to support the camera, so they're discouraging their customers from buying it. How is that in any way an emotional comment? You seem to be portraying yourself as some kind of voice of reason, when in fact you're an apologist for a commercial company out to make a profit. How is that the voice of reason? What is your emotional attachment to this company that you feel you have to call people "emotional" or "all upset" or "over-reacting". All you do is call names. At least I base my comments on why DxO is doing, not on some irrational evaluation of the mental state of someone I don't even know. Who's the one displaying irrational tendencies here? ... a little hint.. it's you dude. Learn to call a spade a spade.... DxO isn't supporting the 645z or the lenses that go on it, if you buy one , they lose your business. It will cost them profits if you buy it, so they posted a half assed "review" designed to discredit it. The irrational person isn't the one who describes accurately what they're doing, the irrational one is the one who can't see the truth.

10-01-2014, 02:18 PM	#11
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,023	Originally posted by normhead OK, what's your angle in defending DxO on this? No angle. I'll wait until they review the Z if they ever do. I'd really like to see the ISO vs DR of that Sony sensor.

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10-01-2014, 05:03 PM - 1 Like	#12
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Such a lazy article. As one of the comments says: "The sooner the better, eh, you're already way too late on this one. Please don't let it go the way of every MF Schneider-Kreuznach lens, sitting in "preview" limbo forever solely for your own fear of revealing these things' undeniable IQ superiority to the Canikon world. We'll give you the benefit of the doubt if you're trying. I mean, if you're having trouble getting your hands on one, just call your local Pentax/Ricoh rep (or Phase One rep in the case of those lenses). I'm sure they wouldn't mind lending you one for a day or two while you get your review together. If you absolutely do not want to test the 645Z, just do as Bob & Doug do and convert the 645D scores to metric: "Double it and add 30"

10-03-2014, 03:09 AM	#14
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by tuco No angle. I'll wait until they review the Z if they ever do. I'd really like to see the ISO vs DR of that Sony sensor. It is a little odd that they would post anything about it until they would actually have the camera in their hands. It isn't clear to me what they have done with this article, except to try to generate more hits to their site. If they were going to post an article, it should have been an article that says something like "We're excited to evaluate the 645z in xx/xx date" and then just list the features that are known about it. Trying to stick the 645D data into the article is ultra-confusing to me and doesn't make sense at all.

10-03-2014, 04:48 AM	#15
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Rondec Trying to stick the 645D data into the article is ultra-confusing to me and doesn't make sense at all. Yes, Rondec, they were better off with no figures, or at least including graphs from the Hasselblad and Phase One. BTW, I enjoy your pics and would love to see what you'd do with a 645Z!