Landscape Deception Pass

troika · 09-21-2014, 09:17 PM

I have trouble knowing how to crop a horizon straight, when it's at an angle to me. This photo feels like it's falling off to the right on me. Any perspective or advice?

RoxnDox · 09-21-2014, 10:08 PM

In this particular case, I would judge it by the vertical girders on the bridge trusswork. Use a grid overlay and align one of the girders to it. Nicely captured, by the way - DP is such a wonderful setting...

Jim

johnyates · 09-22-2014, 08:27 AM

The waterline is usually a pretty good indication of what is level. Zoom in close and use the 'straighten' tool in whatever PP program you're using.

troika · 09-22-2014, 09:31 AM - **1 Like**

Thanks guys. I think I did use the vertical bridge girder, but I'll check again in LR.

The thing with the water line or a building or something that should be perfectly horizontal is that if you're looking at them at a 90 degree angle, then they will be. If the angle is anything other than 90 degrees, though, moving toward away from you left to right then they won't appear that way in a 2D photo. That's what trips me up. I think just need to start looking at the world without a camera to see how these things appear from various angles so that when I'm post processing, I can crop/straighten appropriately.

Man, I don't know how people can draw or paint without a scene in front of them. This stuff must be crystal clear in their mind's eye.

esrandall · 09-22-2014, 10:49 AM

I always just go by what looks right to my eye. In this pretty shot, the water and hill lines both tip to the right. I would straighten these, and see if it looks a little better to you eye. The bridge looks great as you have it positioned, so not sure what it will look like if you tilt the shot a bit to the left.

troika · 09-22-2014, 10:59 AM

Thanks. It does feel to me like it's leaning right a bit. I'll try another crop later. I like the shot in general. The sun was about 1/2 an hour from setting and it really lit up that rock face.

nomadkng · 09-25-2014, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by johnyates

The waterline is usually a pretty good indication of what is level. Zoom in close and use the 'straighten' tool in whatever PP program you're using.

I second the use of the waterline, because of the angle of the bridge going away from you and its position in the image, plus and lens distortion, it would be tough to use a girder as a straight line. water is always level and the opposite shore waterline in the image center would be you best leveler.

OldGeaser · 09-25-2014, 03:13 PM

I decided to try what seems to be the consensus. I used Picasa because it has a grid so you can check both vertical and horizontal.
I found that when the waterline is level then the main vertical girder (that runs up from the anchor point) is straight up and down (90 degrees from the waterline). See attached.

troika · 09-25-2014, 05:14 PM

That does feel better. I haven't had a chance to fool with it, but you all gave me some validation to what I was feeling about it and this crop does really help.

Thank you.

reeftool · 09-29-2014, 04:47 PM

Water will always be level unless you're in rapids and the water is flowing downhill. Bridges aren't always level, especially in the mountains. That said, you have to kind of use your eye and judgment sometimes to adjust things so they look right. The second version looks pretty good to me.

troika · 09-29-2014, 05:18 PM

the correction made for me looks pretty good to me too.

But, a water line won't always appear level to the camera unless your directly perpendicular to it, right? For extreme example, the near water line in the lower right of the photo. The water is level, but the water line, from this angle goes down from left to right. So, the far water line is much more subtle, but this is where I get tripped up.

RoxnDox · 09-29-2014, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by troika

the correction made for me looks pretty good to me too.

But, a water line won't always appear level to the camera unless your directly perpendicular to it, right? For extreme example, the near water line in the lower right of the photo. The water is level, but the water line, from this angle goes down from left to right. So, the far water line is much more subtle, but this is where I get tripped up.

Yeah, i have found that the angle of a shoreline can be deceiving for leveling. Thats one reason for suggesting the girder. :-)

Jim

09-21-2014, 09:17 PM	#1
troika Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 1,753	Deception Pass Lens: DA 18-135 WR Camera: K5ii Photo Location: Widbey Island WA ISO: 400 Shutter Speed: 1/350s Aperture: F5.6 I have trouble knowing how to crop a horizon straight, when it's at an angle to me. This photo feels like it's falling off to the right on me. Any perspective or advice?

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09-21-2014, 10:08 PM	#2
RoxnDox Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Gig Harbor, Washington, USA, Terra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,494	In this particular case, I would judge it by the vertical girders on the bridge trusswork. Use a grid overlay and align one of the girders to it. Nicely captured, by the way - DP is such a wonderful setting... Jim

09-22-2014, 08:27 AM	#3
johnyates Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Saskatoon, SK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,345	The waterline is usually a pretty good indication of what is level. Zoom in close and use the 'straighten' tool in whatever PP program you're using.

09-22-2014, 09:31 AM - 1 Like	#4
troika Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 1,753 Original Poster	Thanks guys. I think I did use the vertical bridge girder, but I'll check again in LR. The thing with the water line or a building or something that should be perfectly horizontal is that if you're looking at them at a 90 degree angle, then they will be. If the angle is anything other than 90 degrees, though, moving toward away from you left to right then they won't appear that way in a 2D photo. That's what trips me up. I think just need to start looking at the world without a camera to see how these things appear from various angles so that when I'm post processing, I can crop/straighten appropriately. Man, I don't know how people can draw or paint without a scene in front of them. This stuff must be crystal clear in their mind's eye.

09-22-2014, 10:49 AM	#5
esrandall Closed Account Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Sumner, WA Photos: Albums Posts: 965	I always just go by what looks right to my eye. In this pretty shot, the water and hill lines both tip to the right. I would straighten these, and see if it looks a little better to you eye. The bridge looks great as you have it positioned, so not sure what it will look like if you tilt the shot a bit to the left.

09-22-2014, 10:59 AM	#6
troika Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 1,753 Original Poster	Thanks. It does feel to me like it's leaning right a bit. I'll try another crop later. I like the shot in general. The sun was about 1/2 an hour from setting and it really lit up that rock face.

09-25-2014, 02:56 PM	#7
nomadkng Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,448	Originally posted by johnyates The waterline is usually a pretty good indication of what is level. Zoom in close and use the 'straighten' tool in whatever PP program you're using. I second the use of the waterline, because of the angle of the bridge going away from you and its position in the image, plus and lens distortion, it would be tough to use a girder as a straight line. water is always level and the opposite shore waterline in the image center would be you best leveler.

09-25-2014, 05:14 PM	#9
troika Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 1,753 Original Poster	That does feel better. I haven't had a chance to fool with it, but you all gave me some validation to what I was feeling about it and this crop does really help. Thank you.

09-29-2014, 04:47 PM	#10
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	Water will always be level unless you're in rapids and the water is flowing downhill. Bridges aren't always level, especially in the mountains. That said, you have to kind of use your eye and judgment sometimes to adjust things so they look right. The second version looks pretty good to me.

09-29-2014, 05:18 PM	#11
troika Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Seattle, WA USA Posts: 1,753 Original Poster	the correction made for me looks pretty good to me too. But, a water line won't always appear level to the camera unless your directly perpendicular to it, right? For extreme example, the near water line in the lower right of the photo. The water is level, but the water line, from this angle goes down from left to right. So, the far water line is much more subtle, but this is where I get tripped up.

09-29-2014, 08:31 PM	#12
RoxnDox Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Gig Harbor, Washington, USA, Terra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,494	Originally posted by troika the correction made for me looks pretty good to me too. But, a water line won't always appear level to the camera unless your directly perpendicular to it, right? For extreme example, the near water line in the lower right of the photo. The water is level, but the water line, from this angle goes down from left to right. So, the far water line is much more subtle, but this is where I get tripped up. Yeah, i have found that the angle of a shoreline can be deceiving for leveling. Thats one reason for suggesting the girder. :-) Jim