Landscape Watkins Glen

tuggie76 · 11-25-2015, 07:10 AM

This got very poor marks at my camera club, but no explanation, can anyone help? I did remove some people from the right side of the image.

Thanks.

Tuggie76

Last edited by tuggie76; 01-24-2016 at 03:14 PM.

nomadkng · 11-25-2015, 09:26 AM

this is one of those scenes that probably looks amazing in person, but is tough to capture in 2 dimensions in an image.

my first impression(s):

the walls are overpowering the image with not a whole lot of story or interest. this is probably due to the near symmetry of the image. the tiny waterfall is near the exact center and the walls basically march through the scene in thirds.

this makes my mind wonder what I really should pay attention to. I like waterfalls, so I WANT to see more of the waterfall, but I can't so I'm left frustrated. I can see texture in the walls, but there are 3 to choose from and they have equal weight. which one is more interesting? I'm not sure, so they all start to lose interest.

the stream is centered with not a lot of drama to it and the whole perspective seems flat. there's no sense of dimension, other than the depth to the waterfall.

I'd love to have been there with you, to see what I could come up with out of this scene, not saying I would have done better, but from this image, it's really devoid of mental or visual anchor points, so I'm finding it tough to even come up with suggestions of where or how it could be reshot.

That's probably why there wasn't a lot of interest at your camera club. The viewer is forced to fill in too many blanks and ask too many questions.

tuggie76 · 11-25-2015, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by tuggie76

This got very poor marks at my camera club, but no explanation, can anyone help? I did remove some people from the right side of the image.

Thanks.

Tuggie76

Thanks Nomadkng, there is a lot of information in your reply that I hadn't considered, quite a learning experience!

Tuggie76

TaoMaas · 11-25-2015, 04:27 PM

Nomadkng is right. You've got lots of great stuff here, but you haven't told your viewers, "Look at THIS!" That's what good composition should do. I always say it's a conversation between the photographer and viewer that goes, "Hey, you!...Look at THIS!....See?" First you have to grab their attention, then you should direct their vision to what you're trying to show, and hope that they get it. You've got a great scene. You just need to crop it to show what you were hoping to convey to your viewers. Was it the waterfall? The texture in the walls? Decide what your intent was and then crop out everything that doesn't lend itself to that purpose.

**Scorpio71GR** · 11-25-2015, 04:38 PM

I've been to Watkins Glen too, it truly is a beautiful place. It is a tough place to photograph. A narrow gorge with not much light. The last time I was there I was shooting film still. I see you are using the 18-135, I am not why you shot st 48mm but I think I would have went wider to try and incorporate more into the scene. It is hard to say without actually being there. I think I would also tried a shot in portrait mode. Maybe move the waterfall to the lower left and somehow incorporate the stairs into the scene. The eye needs something to lead it to the focal point of the photograph. Right now the eye wanders without really ending up anywhere as stated earlier. In the days of film I had to be more careful and selective of my shots. Now with digital I take as many shots as time and my SD cards will allow. I suggest experimenting more with different angles, including trying portrait mode. I have found some of the shots I have taken that I thought were terrible when I took them became favorites later. SD card space is cheap, much cheaper than film, I have learned to embrace that in the digital age.

**robgski** · 11-25-2015, 05:08 PM

I like the shot, it's probably a gorgeous place in real life.
I have to agree with everyone else, and not knowing exactly where you were standing, it's hard to give specific adjustment recommendations:
1. This looks to be shot at eye level, getting up higher, or crouching lower, would assist in emphasizing the dpeth/clarit of the stream, or the height of the gorge and contrasted the smooth stream surface with the wonderfully craggy rocks.
2. The rocks on the left of the picture have a man-made wall, and form an awesome leading line, imagine being 10 steps to your right aiming along that wall and further up the gorge and contrast with nature's symetry in the rocks on the other side of the stream. Also, the iron railing in the left is a distraction.
3. A polarizing filter would have made the surface of the water interesting.
4. I like the bright yellow color on one side and the darker bluish colors on the left, it's a cool natural contrast wnad the green leaves are a transition between the two, There is probably a way to make more of that.

Lake · 11-26-2015, 02:09 PM

Great advice about composition. I suggest you crop out the top and left, then print large.

tuggie76 · 11-26-2015, 02:58 PM - **1 Like**

Hi there, I cropped and sharpened, and I feel it's a lot better for it.

Thanks for the advise.

Tuggie76

**ChrisPlatt** · 11-26-2015, 03:34 PM

You could probably spend a lifetime photographing Watkins Glen.
I've been there several times since I was a child in the 1960's.
I'd love to go there for the Grand Prix race...

Chris

osv · 11-26-2015, 03:52 PM

that last one is the best, i think.

it can be good to have a person in a landscape shot, if it gives the shot perspective, or an anchor point.

**Rondec** · 11-26-2015, 07:00 PM

I think the thing is that there isn't much of a subject and the light is pretty flat. I do like the last version better than the initial one.

**dadipentak** · 11-26-2015, 09:54 PM

I think it's a really nice photo. I'm a sucker for streams and I like the way my eye follows the stream up through the rocks.

Storm Chaser · 11-29-2015, 07:37 PM

I do like it cropped and draws your eyes in. I really struggle with this all the time in my outdoor photography.
Thats why we do it, we see it, very hard to reproduce it!

**interested_observer** · 11-30-2015, 12:13 AM

I certainly understand everyone's comments. They are good ones. For me on the other hand - I brought up the image and was looking at it. The detail of the rock wall on the left got my attention, along with the coloration difference between the left and right. I found it very calming. I can see this hanging in my office - so that I can just get lost in the picture. For that aspect - I really really like it!

Then, I started reading everyone's comments. I do agree and I did learn - as this is something that I would have shot, thinking that I just captured a fantastic shot.

The crop makes it feel like a totally different image. I just hate loosing the left hand wall - which was the most interesting to me. I am wondering if you could crop perhaps 4 different images out of this. The right hand side as you already did. But, perhaps a left hand side, and possibly 1 or 2 vertical crops?

**gaweidert** · 11-30-2015, 06:52 AM

Your two photos show the conflict that is present in outdoor and nature photography. One one side is to record the scene as is. On the other is to make a more artistic statement. One is factual and the other emotional.

Photo one says: "This is Watkins Glen."
Photo two says: "If you look closely, you can see hidden gems of beauty and grace in the overall scene."

Interestingly enough, National Geographic almost always takes approach number one. They are trying to tell a story. The photos that help the story are added for their journalistic, and not artistic, qualities. For that reason a lot of absolutely stunning photographs taken for them never get published in their magazine.

11-25-2015, 07:10 AM	#1
tuggie76 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,215	Watkins Glen Lens: Pentax 18-135 Camera: K50 Photo Location: Watkins Glen NY. ISO: 200 Shutter Speed: 1s Aperture: F11 This got very poor marks at my camera club, but no explanation, can anyone help? I did remove some people from the right side of the image. Thanks. Tuggie76 Last edited by tuggie76; 01-24-2016 at 03:14 PM.

11-26-2015, 02:58 PM - 1 Like	#8
tuggie76 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,215 Original Poster	Hi there, I cropped and sharpened, and I feel it's a lot better for it. Thanks for the advise. Tuggie76 Last edited by tuggie76; 01-24-2016 at 03:14 PM.

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11-25-2015, 09:26 AM	#2
nomadkng Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,448	this is one of those scenes that probably looks amazing in person, but is tough to capture in 2 dimensions in an image. my first impression(s): the walls are overpowering the image with not a whole lot of story or interest. this is probably due to the near symmetry of the image. the tiny waterfall is near the exact center and the walls basically march through the scene in thirds. this makes my mind wonder what I really should pay attention to. I like waterfalls, so I WANT to see more of the waterfall, but I can't so I'm left frustrated. I can see texture in the walls, but there are 3 to choose from and they have equal weight. which one is more interesting? I'm not sure, so they all start to lose interest. the stream is centered with not a lot of drama to it and the whole perspective seems flat. there's no sense of dimension, other than the depth to the waterfall. I'd love to have been there with you, to see what I could come up with out of this scene, not saying I would have done better, but from this image, it's really devoid of mental or visual anchor points, so I'm finding it tough to even come up with suggestions of where or how it could be reshot. That's probably why there wasn't a lot of interest at your camera club. The viewer is forced to fill in too many blanks and ask too many questions.

11-25-2015, 02:32 PM	#3
tuggie76 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,215 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuggie76 This got very poor marks at my camera club, but no explanation, can anyone help? I did remove some people from the right side of the image. Thanks. Tuggie76 Thanks Nomadkng, there is a lot of information in your reply that I hadn't considered, quite a learning experience! Tuggie76

11-25-2015, 04:27 PM	#4
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Nomadkng is right. You've got lots of great stuff here, but you haven't told your viewers, "Look at THIS!" That's what good composition should do. I always say it's a conversation between the photographer and viewer that goes, "Hey, you!...Look at THIS!....See?" First you have to grab their attention, then you should direct their vision to what you're trying to show, and hope that they get it. You've got a great scene. You just need to crop it to show what you were hoping to convey to your viewers. Was it the waterfall? The texture in the walls? Decide what your intent was and then crop out everything that doesn't lend itself to that purpose.

11-25-2015, 04:38 PM	#5
Scorpio71GR Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,005	I've been to Watkins Glen too, it truly is a beautiful place. It is a tough place to photograph. A narrow gorge with not much light. The last time I was there I was shooting film still. I see you are using the 18-135, I am not why you shot st 48mm but I think I would have went wider to try and incorporate more into the scene. It is hard to say without actually being there. I think I would also tried a shot in portrait mode. Maybe move the waterfall to the lower left and somehow incorporate the stairs into the scene. The eye needs something to lead it to the focal point of the photograph. Right now the eye wanders without really ending up anywhere as stated earlier. In the days of film I had to be more careful and selective of my shots. Now with digital I take as many shots as time and my SD cards will allow. I suggest experimenting more with different angles, including trying portrait mode. I have found some of the shots I have taken that I thought were terrible when I took them became favorites later. SD card space is cheap, much cheaper than film, I have learned to embrace that in the digital age.

11-25-2015, 05:08 PM	#6
robgski Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,796	I like the shot, it's probably a gorgeous place in real life. I have to agree with everyone else, and not knowing exactly where you were standing, it's hard to give specific adjustment recommendations: 1. This looks to be shot at eye level, getting up higher, or crouching lower, would assist in emphasizing the dpeth/clarit of the stream, or the height of the gorge and contrasted the smooth stream surface with the wonderfully craggy rocks. 2. The rocks on the left of the picture have a man-made wall, and form an awesome leading line, imagine being 10 steps to your right aiming along that wall and further up the gorge and contrast with nature's symetry in the rocks on the other side of the stream. Also, the iron railing in the left is a distraction. 3. A polarizing filter would have made the surface of the water interesting. 4. I like the bright yellow color on one side and the darker bluish colors on the left, it's a cool natural contrast wnad the green leaves are a transition between the two, There is probably a way to make more of that.

11-26-2015, 02:09 PM	#7
Lake Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Minnesota Posts: 104	Great advice about composition. I suggest you crop out the top and left, then print large.

11-26-2015, 03:34 PM	#9
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,692	You could probably spend a lifetime photographing Watkins Glen. I've been there several times since I was a child in the 1960's. I'd love to go there for the Grand Prix race... Chris

11-26-2015, 03:52 PM	#10
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	that last one is the best, i think. it can be good to have a person in a landscape shot, if it gives the shot perspective, or an anchor point.

11-26-2015, 07:00 PM	#11
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	I think the thing is that there isn't much of a subject and the light is pretty flat. I do like the last version better than the initial one.

11-26-2015, 09:54 PM	#12
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	I think it's a really nice photo. I'm a sucker for streams and I like the way my eye follows the stream up through the rocks.

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11-29-2015, 07:37 PM	#13
Storm Chaser Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 165	I do like it cropped and draws your eyes in. I really struggle with this all the time in my outdoor photography. Thats why we do it, we see it, very hard to reproduce it!

11-30-2015, 12:13 AM	#14
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	I certainly understand everyone's comments. They are good ones. For me on the other hand - I brought up the image and was looking at it. The detail of the rock wall on the left got my attention, along with the coloration difference between the left and right. I found it very calming. I can see this hanging in my office - so that I can just get lost in the picture. For that aspect - I really really like it! Then, I started reading everyone's comments. I do agree and I did learn - as this is something that I would have shot, thinking that I just captured a fantastic shot. The crop makes it feel like a totally different image. I just hate loosing the left hand wall - which was the most interesting to me. I am wondering if you could crop perhaps 4 different images out of this. The right hand side as you already did. But, perhaps a left hand side, and possibly 1 or 2 vertical crops?

11-30-2015, 06:52 AM	#15
gaweidert Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,325	Your two photos show the conflict that is present in outdoor and nature photography. One one side is to record the scene as is. On the other is to make a more artistic statement. One is factual and the other emotional. Photo one says: "This is Watkins Glen." Photo two says: "If you look closely, you can see hidden gems of beauty and grace in the overall scene." Interestingly enough, National Geographic almost always takes approach number one. They are trying to tell a story. The photos that help the story are added for their journalistic, and not artistic, qualities. For that reason a lot of absolutely stunning photographs taken for them never get published in their magazine.