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*Blue* · 12-29-2008, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by baltochef920

. . .
In the year 2009 we live in a world of convenience..No one wishes to expend any more mental or physical energy to accomplish any particular task than is absolutely necessary..To do so would be to somehow shortchange ourselves, and to diminish our lives in some way that would effectively cripple us beyond repair..

This really transcends photography and we can only do what we can do.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

Everyone that purchases anything from groceries all the way to the most expensive luxury item wants a deal..No one wants to pay full retail, or MSRP, regardless of what product we might be discussing..We want our goods cheap, and we do not much care what has to happen in order for this to become a reality..

MSRP are generally inflated numbers and anyone that pays MSRP either has more money than they need to worry about it or either naive or foolish. If its an emergency and there's no option that's an exception. Buying a k200d or k20d isn't an emregency.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

When did paying full retail price for a product become a dirty word??..Something to be ashamed of, and to be avoided at all costs??..Something that would lead one's friends and neighbors to sneer at you, and to regard you with pity for being so naive and gullible??..When did the deciding factor in any business transaction, regardless of how large or how small, become the monetary value of that particular transaction??..

Again the msrp is an inflated number most famously abused by the auto and electronics industries. As far as the neighbors go, I don't discuss my business with them. Its my business and I mind my own. I know them. We look out after each others dogs.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

When did the service rendered by a business become secondary to the monetary cost of the transaction??..When did walking into a retail establishment and requiring that ONLY our needs as a customer be taken into consideration??..When did the needs and concerns of the business owner start to NOT become a factor in any business transaction negotiated between two human beings??..

We haven't actually dissed on the service nor the people. I'm courteous whether I'm dealing with a local business or one in Oregon. Also, no one dismissed the needs and concerns of the business. I realize they need to pay there bills and employees. So do I.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

When did the general public decide that businesses and their employees had NO rights to be treated humanely??..That the customer was ALWAYS right??..That the customer had the absolute RIGHT to treat a business and its employees in any fashion that they chose to do so??..That a customer could treat an employee in as rude a manner as they wished??..That employees of businesses had to stand for being abused verbally in a fashion that one would not wish on any but one's worst enemies??..And, that employees were EXPECTED to stand at attention like a robot with a smile plastered on their face while being so abused??..

Again, no one said the public should treat employees rudely or badly. This is the south. I believe in common courtesy. I'm not sure where you are coming from with this.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

When did going into a place of business to purchase a product or service become such a trial??..When did we decide that EVERY freaking waking moment of our live MUST be filled with some form of profitable activity??..When did we decide that if there were 16 waking hours in our day, that we would have to schedule at least 18 hours of activity in our day??..When did we decide that if an activity REQUIRED ten minutes in order to be effectively transacted, that we would ONLY allot eight minutes of our day for that activity??..When did we decide that NOT giving our full attention to any activity was the preferred way to live??..

No one said it was a trial. If we make an amicable deal, cool, if not cool. Again it goes back to common courtesy

Originally Posted by baltochef920

When did we decide that being electronically connected 24/7/365 was MORE important than civility??..Before cell phones and computers became readily available to the masses how did we EVER survive??..Why does any business without a website automatically assume less importance in our eyes??..

I guess I asked Thompson's a for advise and then Colliers. I also talked to my grandfather and colleagues for photographic advice. I even read a few books . . . and still do.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

Why do we compare individual brick and mortar stores to giant retail establishments such as Wal-Mart, Costco, Ritz Camera, Adorama, B&H Photo Video, etc??..Why do we EXPECT such small retail stores to have competitive pricing against such large corporations when we KNOW that they cannot possibly obtain the same deals from the manufacturers of the equipment that they sell??..When we KNOW that their markup HAS to be greater in order NOT to sell at a loss..When did we come to EXPECT companies to sell us products at a LOSS in order to compete in business..Does anyone THINK that selling at a loss is GOOD business??..Do we not realize that if businesses sell some of their products at a loss, than they MUST by extension sell some of their other products at artificially high prices in order to stay in businesses??..Do we not realize that economies will eventually collapse if businesses do not price all of their products fairly??..

Why do you lump BH and Adorama in the same category as Wal-Fart and Cost-CO? Both have walk in b & m stores in NY and were in business long before the net. The adapted and overcame. There are others that are doing business using the net such as BlueMoon in Oregon. No one said anything about sailing items at a loss. No one has ever been really competitive by going strictly msrp before or after the net. But I would actually like to see an item before I by if I'm walking into the store to buy it, otherwise, BH and Adorama both have good return policies.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

Consumers like Blue are at the heart of the problem..In this thread he has stated several times that under NO conditions is he going to pay full retail price, or MSRP, for any product..If a business NEVER has the opportunity to sell its high ticket items at full retail than it puts itself into potential financial jeopardy..This form of behavior is rampant in our society..

I'm really not sure where I gave you the idea that I'm a Wal-mart shopper, quite the contrary. My family and I consider going into there like going into the belly of the beast. I do have an opinion like just like you do however. I think that for people to help their local businesses, the businesses need to help us help them. We shop at farmers markets as much as possible and support local and American agriculture as much as possible. Unless its something that makes sense like Chianti wine from Italy or Reisling from Germany or Shiraz from Australia. We drive American made vehicles.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

Do we really want to live in a world where a few thousand huge corporations dictate the price of everything??..As the brick and mortar stores slowly succumb to the retail giants, those retail giants will eventually have the wherewithal to DICTATE the prices of what they sell their goods for..

While Adorama and BH are corporations, they are hardly in the same category as WalMart and CostCo. I have friends that by definition are corporations.

Originally Posted by baltochef920

The local brick and mortar store cannot always, and should not have to sell their products for the same prices as the huge retail giants..If we allow them to fail by not patronizing their establishments, and by always choosing price over service; then we will one day come to regret it..

Bruce

Here again no one said sell at a loss. But come on, $1100 for a K200D kit back in June when I was looking for a Pentax dSLR, and they had to order it with me paying up front. There was something like a 15% restocking fee if I didn't want it.

12-29-2008, 09:57 PM	#26
Blue Site Supporter Location: Florida Hill Country Gallery Photos: 0 Posts: 5,689	Originally Posted by baltochef920 . . . In the year 2009 we live in a world of convenience..No one wishes to expend any more mental or physical energy to accomplish any particular task than is absolutely necessary..To do so would be to somehow shortchange ourselves, and to diminish our lives in some way that would effectively cripple us beyond repair.. This really transcends photography and we can only do what we can do. Originally Posted by baltochef920 Everyone that purchases anything from groceries all the way to the most expensive luxury item wants a deal..No one wants to pay full retail, or MSRP, regardless of what product we might be discussing..We want our goods cheap, and we do not much care what has to happen in order for this to become a reality.. MSRP are generally inflated numbers and anyone that pays MSRP either has more money than they need to worry about it or either naive or foolish. If its an emergency and there's no option that's an exception. Buying a k200d or k20d isn't an emregency. Originally Posted by baltochef920 When did paying full retail price for a product become a dirty word??..Something to be ashamed of, and to be avoided at all costs??..Something that would lead one's friends and neighbors to sneer at you, and to regard you with pity for being so naive and gullible??..When did the deciding factor in any business transaction, regardless of how large or how small, become the monetary value of that particular transaction??.. Again the msrp is an inflated number most famously abused by the auto and electronics industries. As far as the neighbors go, I don't discuss my business with them. Its my business and I mind my own. I know them. We look out after each others dogs. Originally Posted by baltochef920 When did the service rendered by a business become secondary to the monetary cost of the transaction??..When did walking into a retail establishment and requiring that ONLY our needs as a customer be taken into consideration??..When did the needs and concerns of the business owner start to NOT become a factor in any business transaction negotiated between two human beings??.. We haven't actually dissed on the service nor the people. I'm courteous whether I'm dealing with a local business or one in Oregon. Also, no one dismissed the needs and concerns of the business. I realize they need to pay there bills and employees. So do I. Originally Posted by baltochef920 When did the general public decide that businesses and their employees had NO rights to be treated humanely??..That the customer was ALWAYS right??..That the customer had the absolute RIGHT to treat a business and its employees in any fashion that they chose to do so??..That a customer could treat an employee in as rude a manner as they wished??..That employees of businesses had to stand for being abused verbally in a fashion that one would not wish on any but one's worst enemies??..And, that employees were EXPECTED to stand at attention like a robot with a smile plastered on their face while being so abused??.. Again, no one said the public should treat employees rudely or badly. This is the south. I believe in common courtesy. I'm not sure where you are coming from with this. Originally Posted by baltochef920 When did going into a place of business to purchase a product or service become such a trial??..When did we decide that EVERY freaking waking moment of our live MUST be filled with some form of profitable activity??..When did we decide that if there were 16 waking hours in our day, that we would have to schedule at least 18 hours of activity in our day??..When did we decide that if an activity REQUIRED ten minutes in order to be effectively transacted, that we would ONLY allot eight minutes of our day for that activity??..When did we decide that NOT giving our full attention to any activity was the preferred way to live??.. No one said it was a trial. If we make an amicable deal, cool, if not cool. Again it goes back to common courtesy Originally Posted by baltochef920 When did we decide that being electronically connected 24/7/365 was MORE important than civility??..Before cell phones and computers became readily available to the masses how did we EVER survive??..Why does any business without a website automatically assume less importance in our eyes??.. I guess I asked Thompson's a for advise and then Colliers. I also talked to my grandfather and colleagues for photographic advice. I even read a few books . . . and still do. Originally Posted by baltochef920 Why do we compare individual brick and mortar stores to giant retail establishments such as Wal-Mart, Costco, Ritz Camera, Adorama, B&H Photo Video, etc??..Why do we EXPECT such small retail stores to have competitive pricing against such large corporations when we KNOW that they cannot possibly obtain the same deals from the manufacturers of the equipment that they sell??..When we KNOW that their markup HAS to be greater in order NOT to sell at a loss..When did we come to EXPECT companies to sell us products at a LOSS in order to compete in business..Does anyone THINK that selling at a loss is GOOD business??..Do we not realize that if businesses sell some of their products at a loss, than they MUST by extension sell some of their other products at artificially high prices in order to stay in businesses??..Do we not realize that economies will eventually collapse if businesses do not price all of their products fairly??.. Why do you lump BH and Adorama in the same category as Wal-Fart and Cost-CO? Both have walk in b & m stores in NY and were in business long before the net. The adapted and overcame. There are others that are doing business using the net such as BlueMoon in Oregon. No one said anything about sailing items at a loss. No one has ever been really competitive by going strictly msrp before or after the net. But I would actually like to see an item before I by if I'm walking into the store to buy it, otherwise, BH and Adorama both have good return policies. Originally Posted by baltochef920 Consumers like Blue are at the heart of the problem..In this thread he has stated several times that under NO conditions is he going to pay full retail price, or MSRP, for any product..If a business NEVER has the opportunity to sell its high ticket items at full retail than it puts itself into potential financial jeopardy..This form of behavior is rampant in our society.. I'm really not sure where I gave you the idea that I'm a Wal-mart shopper, quite the contrary. My family and I consider going into there like going into the belly of the beast. I do have an opinion like just like you do however. I think that for people to help their local businesses, the businesses need to help us help them. We shop at farmers markets as much as possible and support local and American agriculture as much as possible. Unless its something that makes sense like Chianti wine from Italy or Reisling from Germany or Shiraz from Australia. We drive American made vehicles. Originally Posted by baltochef920 Do we really want to live in a world where a few thousand huge corporations dictate the price of everything??..As the brick and mortar stores slowly succumb to the retail giants, those retail giants will eventually have the wherewithal to DICTATE the prices of what they sell their goods for.. While Adorama and BH are corporations, they are hardly in the same category as WalMart and CostCo. I have friends that by definition are corporations. Originally Posted by baltochef920 The local brick and mortar store cannot always, and should not have to sell their products for the same prices as the huge retail giants..If we allow them to fail by not patronizing their establishments, and by always choosing price over service; then we will one day come to regret it.. Bruce Here again no one said sell at a loss. But come on, $1100 for a K200D kit back in June when I was looking for a Pentax dSLR, and they had to order it with me paying up front. There was something like a 15% restocking fee if I didn't want it.