Report on Wireless setup on 645Z

chobit · 07-25-2014, 12:06 PM - **3 Likes**

I tried to setup my 645Z with a simple wireless flash setup, and here is my finding, since I don't think this information is available anywhere else.

My goal is to use
- 1 flash that can be used wirelessly at TTL/HSS
- Light Modifier is the Apollo Halo - Westcott 45" Round Halo - Halo - Apollo & Halo - Light Modifiers
- 1 controller to trigger the wireless flash

I first bought the Metz 52 AF-1, hoping to use it as the trigger. However, the Metz 52 AF-1 can set as a controller to TTL or Manual, but not with HSS.

I was told it can do TTL/HSS when using it as slave. So, I bought the Pentax 360 FGZ II, mount it on my 645Z as the controller, then set the Metz 52 AF-1 as slave. With this setup, I can trigger the flash over 1/125 with the following problems.

1> When shutter speed is set at 1/160 or faster, the exposure drop about 2-3 stops inconsistently, and exposure also become inconsistent as I stop down the lens or change the shutter speed.
2> I can use the 52 AF-1 with shutter speed up to 1/640, at 1/800, the shutter curtain starts to show.
3> I tested using the 52 AF-1 mounted on the camera, and have no problem using TTL/HSS at 1/4000s. So, I determined this is a problem only when using the Metz wirelessly.

I just returned the Metz, and bought a 540 FGZ II. Exposure is about 1 stop under when going from 1/125 to 1/160 (HSS). However, it's very consistent. I did the same test on the 54 FGZ II, and have no trouble pushing the shutter to 1/4000s, and the exposure is also consistent when I change the aperture.

In Conclusion, the Pentax are more expensive, but they work.

Gareth Iwan Jones · 08-04-2014, 06:50 AM

Hi,

I've been playing around with external lights and the 645z. Am I right in thinking the 645z shuts off the hotshoe at shutter speeds faster than 1/125? I cannot get a flash to fire above 1/125. It's as if the signal is not being sent from the camera. I hope this is not the case, or at least there is a way to disable?

Any help is appreciated.

G

Dreamsong · 08-04-2014, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Gareth Iwan Jones

Hi,

I've been playing around with external lights and the 645z. Am I right in thinking the 645z shuts off the hotshoe at shutter speeds faster than 1/125? I cannot get a flash to fire above 1/125. It's as if the signal is not being sent from the camera. I hope this is not the case, or at least there is a way to disable?

Any help is appreciated.

G

I believe all Pentax cameras do this (or at least the K30 and K3 anyway), once you exceed the sync speed the flash will not fire.
I do not believe this can be turned off.
I would assume the Z is the same in this regard,happy to be proved wrong though.

Gareth Iwan Jones · 08-04-2014, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Dreamsong

I believe all Pentax cameras do this (or at least the K30 and K3 anyway), once you exceed the sync speed the flash will not fire.
I do not believe this can be turned off.
I would assume the Z is the same in this regard,happy to be proved wrong though.

I think you are correct Dreamsong. I've been playing around with the camera and flashes this morning and it all points to that being the case. A little frustrating to not have the option fire a flash at shutter speeds faster than the native sync speed.

---------- Post added 08-04-14 at 07:31 AM ----------

Also looks as if it's a hardware limitation so no hope of a firmware fix in the future. Back to ND's it is.... If anyone knows a hack around this I'd be interested to hear.

chobit · 08-05-2014, 01:06 AM

Yes, you are right, the 645Z can only work above 1/125 if it can see the flash with HSS enable.

I also find a glitch with HSS (wireless or not) which would hopefully get fixed by Pentax through firmware.

I have tested this on both my 540 FGZ II and 360 FGZ II

When using the camera at 1/160 (HSS Mode). FEC doesn't work correctly. unless you keep FEC to 0 (Zero), it seems the flash power would be at least 1 stop less than using FEC at 0. The best I can get out of my 645Z using HSS is to FEC on my camera with +1 setting which is the max I can set on the camera.

However, everything works correctly using the flash with regular P-TTL at 1/125

dugaut · 03-20-2015, 04:24 AM

this thread may have died but just to satisfy my own curiosity (and frustration):

I'm using cactus v6 with an einstein 640; pushing the button on the cactus fires the einstein (cactus mounted in hot shoe of 645z and attached to einstein through pc sync port of cactus to einstein)

but the pentax only talks to the cactus (mounted in hot shoe or connected through pc sync port) in any mode that doesn't allow you to control shutter speed (so p, a, x)

so are we saying that you need to buy a pentax 360 or 540 flash just to allow setting a shutter speed higher than 1/125?

chobit · 03-21-2015, 09:47 AM

Just want to write a little more details, and hopefully that would be helpful for those who are interested to use the Pentax Flash PTTL system with the 645Z

Setup:
- 645Z
- AF360FGZ II
- AF540FGZ II

Both allow you to setup the Flash in HSS mode as a Master Flash on Hot-Shoe or Controller mode.

The challenge I have with Flash compensation not working when making the changes from the flash

Example:
At 1/125 +1 FEC on the flash, it works. As soon as you start 1/160, the +2 FEC no longer kicks in.
At 1/125 +1 FEC on the Camera. Using 1/160 continue to accept the +1 FEC from the camera

Sadly, you can use -4 to +2 FEC from the flash if it works, on the camera, you are limited to -2 to +1

Translate this to a remote flash setup using my 360 II as controller and the 540 II as the remote flash. I am limited to +1 FEC from the camera, as the flash because of the HSS mode, which is very limiting, when compare to my Canon remote flash setup.

constable · 03-21-2015, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by chobit

Just want to write a little more details, and hopefully that would be helpful for those who are interested to use the Pentax Flash PTTL system with the 645Z

Setup:
- 645Z
- AF360FGZ II
- AF540FGZ II

Both allow you to setup the Flash in HSS mode as a Master Flash on Hot-Shoe or Controller mode.

The challenge I have with Flash compensation not working when making the changes from the flash

Example:
At 1/125 +1 FEC on the flash, it works. As soon as you start 1/160, the +2 FEC no longer kicks in.
At 1/125 +1 FEC on the Camera. Using 1/160 continue to accept the +1 FEC from the camera

Sadly, you can use -4 to +2 FEC from the flash if it works, on the camera, you are limited to -2 to +1

Translate this to a remote flash setup using my 360 II as controller and the 540 II as the remote flash. I am limited to +1 FEC from the camera, as the flash because of the HSS mode, which is very limiting, when compare to my Canon remote flash setup.

I have also been fighting with this.

My experience is the following.

With the AF540FGZII on camera i can HS up to 1/4000 s. That is the good news.

Using Cactus V6 on camera with the AF540FGZII mounted on top and a remote Cactus RF60 on a second Cactus V6, I can get remote triggering up to 1/125. However, when the HSS is set on the AF540FGZII the camera reverts to a sync of 1/60. The remote (usually) fires and I get massive over-exposure. It seems that the Cactus will not pass through the HS setting on the Pentax flash. I have also been unsuccessful in using HS modes on Metz flashes, either direct or with Cactus units.

I have not had a great deal of success with Profoto but I am still working on this

Ed

dugaut · 03-22-2015, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by chobit Quote
Just want to write a little more details, and hopefully that would be helpful for those who are interested to use the Pentax Flash PTTL system with the 645Z

Setup:
- 645Z
- AF360FGZ II
- AF540FGZ II

Both allow you to setup the Flash in HSS mode as a Master Flash on Hot-Shoe or Controller mode.

The challenge I have with Flash compensation not working when making the changes from the flash

Example:
At 1/125 +1 FEC on the flash, it works. As soon as you start 1/160, the +2 FEC no longer kicks in.
At 1/125 +1 FEC on the Camera. Using 1/160 continue to accept the +1 FEC from the camera

Sadly, you can use -4 to +2 FEC from the flash if it works, on the camera, you are limited to -2 to +1

Translate this to a remote flash setup using my 360 II as controller and the 540 II as the remote flash. I am limited to +1 FEC from the camera, as the flash because of the HSS mode, which is very limiting, when compare to my Canon remote flash setup.

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/268881-report-wir...#ixzz3V6SdpEB6

Originally posted by constable

I have also been fighting with this.

My experience is the following.

With the AF540FGZII on camera i can HS up to 1/4000 s. That is the good news.

Using Cactus V6 on camera with the AF540FGZII mounted on top and a remote Cactus RF60 on a second Cactus V6, I can get remote triggering up to 1/125. However, when the HSS is set on the AF540FGZII the camera reverts to a sync of 1/60. The remote (usually) fires and I get massive over-exposure. It seems that the Cactus will not pass through the HS setting on the Pentax flash. I have also been unsuccessful in using HS modes on Metz flashes, either direct or with Cactus units.

I have not had a great deal of success with Profoto but I am still working on this

Ed

so it looks like using the 360 or 540 flashes hss will work with no cactus in the mix

what seems to be not working is fec, and when a cactus is involved (whether the on camera flash is on top of a cactus, or a remote 360/540 is mounted on a cactus)

ed, doesn't the cactus rf60 flash have a built in radio and by mounting it on a cactus you might be confusing it?

what I'm going to do is by a used 540 from b&H, mount it on a cactus on my camera, attached a cactus to my einstein640. Then set the camera to manual (or if I have to x mode), 1/500 shutter speed, and fire the einstein at full power (according to paul c buff that would mean a flash time of 1/588); that should allow the flash to completely illuminate the scene before the second shutter comes down (1/588 flash is faster than 1/500 camera shutter)

why do I feel frustation looming?

constable · 03-22-2015, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by dugaut

Originally posted by chobit Quote
Just want to write a little more details, and hopefully that would be helpful for those who are interested to use the Pentax Flash PTTL system with the 645Z

Setup:
- 645Z
- AF360FGZ II
- AF540FGZ II

Both allow you to setup the Flash in HSS mode as a Master Flash on Hot-Shoe or Controller mode.

The challenge I have with Flash compensation not working when making the changes from the flash

Example:
At 1/125 +1 FEC on the flash, it works. As soon as you start 1/160, the +2 FEC no longer kicks in.
At 1/125 +1 FEC on the Camera. Using 1/160 continue to accept the +1 FEC from the camera

Sadly, you can use -4 to +2 FEC from the flash if it works, on the camera, you are limited to -2 to +1

Translate this to a remote flash setup using my 360 II as controller and the 540 II as the remote flash. I am limited to +1 FEC from the camera, as the flash because of the HSS mode, which is very limiting, when compare to my Canon remote flash setup.

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/268881-report-wir...#ixzz3V6SdpEB6

so it looks like using the 360 or 540 flashes hss will work with no cactus in the mix

what seems to be not working is fec, and when a cactus is involved (whether the on camera flash is on top of a cactus, or a remote 360/540 is mounted on a cactus)

ed, doesn't the cactus rf60 flash have a built in radio and by mounting it on a cactus you might be confusing it?

what I'm going to do is by a used 540 from b&H, mount it on a cactus on my camera, attached a cactus to my einstein640. Then set the camera to manual (or if I have to x mode), 1/500 shutter speed, and fire the einstein at full power (according to paul c buff that would mean a flash time of 1/588); that should allow the flash to completely illuminate the scene before the second shutter comes down (1/588 flash is faster than 1/500 camera shutter)

why do I feel frustation looming?

sorry ... reply in the parallel thread

pursang · 04-19-2015, 10:31 PM

Has anyone tried a 645Z HSS with the new Adorama Rovelight which does HSS?

07-25-2014, 12:06 PM - 3 Likes	#1
chobit New Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 8	Report on Wireless setup on 645Z I tried to setup my 645Z with a simple wireless flash setup, and here is my finding, since I don't think this information is available anywhere else. My goal is to use - 1 flash that can be used wirelessly at TTL/HSS - Light Modifier is the Apollo Halo - Westcott 45" Round Halo - Halo - Apollo & Halo - Light Modifiers - 1 controller to trigger the wireless flash I first bought the Metz 52 AF-1, hoping to use it as the trigger. However, the Metz 52 AF-1 can set as a controller to TTL or Manual, but not with HSS. I was told it can do TTL/HSS when using it as slave. So, I bought the Pentax 360 FGZ II, mount it on my 645Z as the controller, then set the Metz 52 AF-1 as slave. With this setup, I can trigger the flash over 1/125 with the following problems. 1> When shutter speed is set at 1/160 or faster, the exposure drop about 2-3 stops inconsistently, and exposure also become inconsistent as I stop down the lens or change the shutter speed. 2> I can use the 52 AF-1 with shutter speed up to 1/640, at 1/800, the shutter curtain starts to show. 3> I tested using the 52 AF-1 mounted on the camera, and have no problem using TTL/HSS at 1/4000s. So, I determined this is a problem only when using the Metz wirelessly. I just returned the Metz, and bought a 540 FGZ II. Exposure is about 1 stop under when going from 1/125 to 1/160 (HSS). However, it's very consistent. I did the same test on the 54 FGZ II, and have no trouble pushing the shutter to 1/4000s, and the exposure is also consistent when I change the aperture. In Conclusion, the Pentax are more expensive, but they work.

03-20-2015, 04:24 AM	#6
dugaut New Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 7	645z hss this thread may have died but just to satisfy my own curiosity (and frustration): I'm using cactus v6 with an einstein 640; pushing the button on the cactus fires the einstein (cactus mounted in hot shoe of 645z and attached to einstein through pc sync port of cactus to einstein) but the pentax only talks to the cactus (mounted in hot shoe or connected through pc sync port) in any mode that doesn't allow you to control shutter speed (so p, a, x) so are we saying that you need to buy a pentax 360 or 540 flash just to allow setting a shutter speed higher than 1/125?

03-22-2015, 02:21 AM	#9
dugaut New Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 7	645z flash Originally posted by chobit Quote Just want to write a little more details, and hopefully that would be helpful for those who are interested to use the Pentax Flash PTTL system with the 645Z Setup: - 645Z - AF360FGZ II - AF540FGZ II Both allow you to setup the Flash in HSS mode as a Master Flash on Hot-Shoe or Controller mode. The challenge I have with Flash compensation not working when making the changes from the flash Example: At 1/125 +1 FEC on the flash, it works. As soon as you start 1/160, the +2 FEC no longer kicks in. At 1/125 +1 FEC on the Camera. Using 1/160 continue to accept the +1 FEC from the camera Sadly, you can use -4 to +2 FEC from the flash if it works, on the camera, you are limited to -2 to +1 Translate this to a remote flash setup using my 360 II as controller and the 540 II as the remote flash. I am limited to +1 FEC from the camera, as the flash because of the HSS mode, which is very limiting, when compare to my Canon remote flash setup. Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/268881-report-wir...#ixzz3V6SdpEB6 Originally posted by constable I have also been fighting with this. My experience is the following. With the AF540FGZII on camera i can HS up to 1/4000 s. That is the good news. Using Cactus V6 on camera with the AF540FGZII mounted on top and a remote Cactus RF60 on a second Cactus V6, I can get remote triggering up to 1/125. However, when the HSS is set on the AF540FGZII the camera reverts to a sync of 1/60. The remote (usually) fires and I get massive over-exposure. It seems that the Cactus will not pass through the HS setting on the Pentax flash. I have also been unsuccessful in using HS modes on Metz flashes, either direct or with Cactus units. I have not had a great deal of success with Profoto but I am still working on this Ed so it looks like using the 360 or 540 flashes hss will work with no cactus in the mix what seems to be not working is fec, and when a cactus is involved (whether the on camera flash is on top of a cactus, or a remote 360/540 is mounted on a cactus) ed, doesn't the cactus rf60 flash have a built in radio and by mounting it on a cactus you might be confusing it? what I'm going to do is by a used 540 from b&H, mount it on a cactus on my camera, attached a cactus to my einstein640. Then set the camera to manual (or if I have to x mode), 1/500 shutter speed, and fire the einstein at full power (according to paul c buff that would mean a flash time of 1/588); that should allow the flash to completely illuminate the scene before the second shutter comes down (1/588 flash is faster than 1/500 camera shutter) why do I feel frustation looming?

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08-04-2014, 06:50 AM	#2
Gareth Iwan Jones New Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 16	Hi, I've been playing around with external lights and the 645z. Am I right in thinking the 645z shuts off the hotshoe at shutter speeds faster than 1/125? I cannot get a flash to fire above 1/125. It's as if the signal is not being sent from the camera. I hope this is not the case, or at least there is a way to disable? Any help is appreciated. G

08-04-2014, 07:07 AM	#3
Dreamsong Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 39	Originally posted by Gareth Iwan Jones Hi, I've been playing around with external lights and the 645z. Am I right in thinking the 645z shuts off the hotshoe at shutter speeds faster than 1/125? I cannot get a flash to fire above 1/125. It's as if the signal is not being sent from the camera. I hope this is not the case, or at least there is a way to disable? Any help is appreciated. G I believe all Pentax cameras do this (or at least the K30 and K3 anyway), once you exceed the sync speed the flash will not fire. I do not believe this can be turned off. I would assume the Z is the same in this regard,happy to be proved wrong though.

08-04-2014, 07:24 AM	#4
Gareth Iwan Jones New Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 16	Originally posted by Dreamsong I believe all Pentax cameras do this (or at least the K30 and K3 anyway), once you exceed the sync speed the flash will not fire. I do not believe this can be turned off. I would assume the Z is the same in this regard,happy to be proved wrong though. I think you are correct Dreamsong. I've been playing around with the camera and flashes this morning and it all points to that being the case. A little frustrating to not have the option fire a flash at shutter speeds faster than the native sync speed. ---------- Post added 08-04-14 at 07:31 AM ---------- Also looks as if it's a hardware limitation so no hope of a firmware fix in the future. Back to ND's it is.... If anyone knows a hack around this I'd be interested to hear.

08-05-2014, 01:06 AM	#5
chobit New Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 8 Original Poster	Yes, you are right, the 645Z can only work above 1/125 if it can see the flash with HSS enable. I also find a glitch with HSS (wireless or not) which would hopefully get fixed by Pentax through firmware. I have tested this on both my 540 FGZ II and 360 FGZ II When using the camera at 1/160 (HSS Mode). FEC doesn't work correctly. unless you keep FEC to 0 (Zero), it seems the flash power would be at least 1 stop less than using FEC at 0. The best I can get out of my 645Z using HSS is to FEC on my camera with +1 setting which is the max I can set on the camera. However, everything works correctly using the flash with regular P-TTL at 1/125

03-21-2015, 09:47 AM	#7
chobit New Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 8 Original Poster	Just want to write a little more details, and hopefully that would be helpful for those who are interested to use the Pentax Flash PTTL system with the 645Z Setup: - 645Z - AF360FGZ II - AF540FGZ II Both allow you to setup the Flash in HSS mode as a Master Flash on Hot-Shoe or Controller mode. The challenge I have with Flash compensation not working when making the changes from the flash Example: At 1/125 +1 FEC on the flash, it works. As soon as you start 1/160, the +2 FEC no longer kicks in. At 1/125 +1 FEC on the Camera. Using 1/160 continue to accept the +1 FEC from the camera Sadly, you can use -4 to +2 FEC from the flash if it works, on the camera, you are limited to -2 to +1 Translate this to a remote flash setup using my 360 II as controller and the 540 II as the remote flash. I am limited to +1 FEC from the camera, as the flash because of the HSS mode, which is very limiting, when compare to my Canon remote flash setup.

03-21-2015, 01:57 PM	#8
constable New Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 24	Originally posted by chobit Just want to write a little more details, and hopefully that would be helpful for those who are interested to use the Pentax Flash PTTL system with the 645Z Setup: - 645Z - AF360FGZ II - AF540FGZ II Both allow you to setup the Flash in HSS mode as a Master Flash on Hot-Shoe or Controller mode. The challenge I have with Flash compensation not working when making the changes from the flash Example: At 1/125 +1 FEC on the flash, it works. As soon as you start 1/160, the +2 FEC no longer kicks in. At 1/125 +1 FEC on the Camera. Using 1/160 continue to accept the +1 FEC from the camera Sadly, you can use -4 to +2 FEC from the flash if it works, on the camera, you are limited to -2 to +1 Translate this to a remote flash setup using my 360 II as controller and the 540 II as the remote flash. I am limited to +1 FEC from the camera, as the flash because of the HSS mode, which is very limiting, when compare to my Canon remote flash setup. I have also been fighting with this. My experience is the following. With the AF540FGZII on camera i can HS up to 1/4000 s. That is the good news. Using Cactus V6 on camera with the AF540FGZII mounted on top and a remote Cactus RF60 on a second Cactus V6, I can get remote triggering up to 1/125. However, when the HSS is set on the AF540FGZII the camera reverts to a sync of 1/60. The remote (usually) fires and I get massive over-exposure. It seems that the Cactus will not pass through the HS setting on the Pentax flash. I have also been unsuccessful in using HS modes on Metz flashes, either direct or with Cactus units. I have not had a great deal of success with Profoto but I am still working on this Ed

03-22-2015, 01:00 PM	#10
constable New Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 24	Originally posted by dugaut Originally posted by chobit Quote Just want to write a little more details, and hopefully that would be helpful for those who are interested to use the Pentax Flash PTTL system with the 645Z Setup: - 645Z - AF360FGZ II - AF540FGZ II Both allow you to setup the Flash in HSS mode as a Master Flash on Hot-Shoe or Controller mode. The challenge I have with Flash compensation not working when making the changes from the flash Example: At 1/125 +1 FEC on the flash, it works. As soon as you start 1/160, the +2 FEC no longer kicks in. At 1/125 +1 FEC on the Camera. Using 1/160 continue to accept the +1 FEC from the camera Sadly, you can use -4 to +2 FEC from the flash if it works, on the camera, you are limited to -2 to +1 Translate this to a remote flash setup using my 360 II as controller and the 540 II as the remote flash. I am limited to +1 FEC from the camera, as the flash because of the HSS mode, which is very limiting, when compare to my Canon remote flash setup. Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/268881-report-wir...#ixzz3V6SdpEB6 so it looks like using the 360 or 540 flashes hss will work with no cactus in the mix what seems to be not working is fec, and when a cactus is involved (whether the on camera flash is on top of a cactus, or a remote 360/540 is mounted on a cactus) ed, doesn't the cactus rf60 flash have a built in radio and by mounting it on a cactus you might be confusing it? what I'm going to do is by a used 540 from b&H, mount it on a cactus on my camera, attached a cactus to my einstein640. Then set the camera to manual (or if I have to x mode), 1/500 shutter speed, and fire the einstein at full power (according to paul c buff that would mean a flash time of 1/588); that should allow the flash to completely illuminate the scene before the second shutter comes down (1/588 flash is faster than 1/500 camera shutter) why do I feel frustation looming? sorry ... reply in the parallel thread

04-19-2015, 10:31 PM	#11
pursang Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: San Francisco Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59	Has anyone tried a 645Z HSS with the new Adorama Rovelight which does HSS?