Macro Macro on a budget

dakight · 10-22-2014, 05:44 AM

I recently acquired a new K-50 with a couple of kit lenses. In addition, I have a set of Vivitar extension tubes, a Pentax-A 50,, f2.0 lens and a Sigma 28-80 Macro lens. I know that the built in flash will be next to useless for very close subjects and the hot shoe mounted flash that I have will likely be no better. I'm thinking of picking up a ring flash but I have a limited budget of no more than $100. I see all sorts of possibilities at B&H, Amazon and Ebay but I don't want to spend money on something I'll later regret. Does anyone have real hands on experience with low budget flash units? I fully understand that they won't perform the same as a $400 Pentax flash unit so I'm not looking for that sort of commentary. Is there any low-budget unit that will be useful for getting started in this arena?

Culture · 10-22-2014, 05:58 AM - **1 Like**

I dont know what kind of flash you have but I use a yungnuo manual flash to take macro shots. You will find that many here just use manual flashes.
Mine is mounted beside the camera on a small rig. This way I can have more control over how I place the flash. This shot was taken with a manual flash.

Not a Number · 10-22-2014, 06:41 AM

There are many DIY solutions for using the on-board flash. The advantage is you get P-TTL flash control.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/12-post-your-photos/151708-misc-few-diy-m...-diffuser.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/76001-diy-pttl-macro-flash.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/146183-diy-ttl-macro-flash.html

DIY or inexpensive solutions
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/228550-my-techn...o-insects.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/242666-my-uni...cro-flash.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/178382-sunpak...ringflash.html

dakight · 10-22-2014, 06:59 AM

Well, now there are some cool ideas. I would never have thought of it. Very much appreciated!

esrandall · 10-22-2014, 07:49 AM

My experience with a couple of the generic eBay ring flash units, is that they aren't very effective. Even maxed out, neither of them gave off enough light to make a difference. I get better results with the onboard camera flash, and a cheap diffuser. So if you see a $30 ring flash, just know that it's one of those "you get what you pay for" kind of deals. The nice one seem to be expensive for good reason.

Doundounba · 10-22-2014, 08:34 AM

I've found that a Pringles-can diffuser with onboard flash can be pretty effective. You might need to shoot at iso800, but I find that to be an acceptable compromise. On a budget, you might also want to pick up a reversal ring and try both your 50mm and your 28-80mm reversed (and on tubes for bonus points). In my experience, reversed lenses (even zooms) can produce extremely good results. Only downside is that you need to find your subject and focus with the lens stopped down, which can be challenging/impossible in anything but strong sunlight.

EDIT: That being said, I've now mostly moved to using off-camera flash with a Yonguo YN-560 III plus wireless transmitter. Manual wireless flash is now very affordable, and much more powerful. The main downside is it makes the whole camera unit quite bulky to carry around.

dakight · 10-22-2014, 09:30 AM

I do have an old "Achiever" af260 with the PZ-10 hot shoe module. From another thread I see that it will work as a manual flash. It is quite powerful so with a remote mounting cable and a bracket I should be able to use it I think. In appearance it is a lot like the Yongnuo with a tilt and swivel flash head. I fired it off while looking at it and couldn't see properly for several minutes afterwards. It may be overkill. I'll probably have to resort to ND filters to avoid having to stop down too much.

I have also seen that the Sunpak DX-8 is available at reasonable cost so that's another option.

Doundounba · 10-22-2014, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by dakight

I'll probably have to resort to ND filters to avoid having to stop down too much.

Actually, in macro, you want to stop down as much as possible because the DoF becomes incredibly thin. Don't worry too much about diffraction, it's much more of a problem at infinity focus (ie for distant subjects). I've even shot at F/32 with a macro lens and got very good results. Of course, YMMV.

MarkJerling · 10-22-2014, 12:12 PM

Everyone's beat me to it, but I also use a Pringles flash adapter as well as a $12 reverse mount adapter. or some equally cheap extension tubes.
Works a charm on a budget.

LensBeginner · 10-22-2014, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

Actually, in macro, you want to stop down as much as possible because the DoF becomes incredibly thin. Don't worry too much about diffraction, it's much more of a problem at infinity focus (ie for distant subjects). I've even shot at F/32 with a macro lens and got very good results. Of course, YMMV.

Huge problem with stopping down is you can see all the dust on your sensor...
Don't know how you guys keep 'em clean, but it takes me a lot of time in PP just to remove specks in pictures...
I use a 2x TC with 1:1 macro function, so my f/22s become f/44s...

Doundounba · 10-22-2014, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by LensBeginner

Huge problem with stopping down is you can see all the dust on your sensor...

Problem? Yes. Huge? Not in my opinion. I use a blower semi-regularly and consider an occasional professional sensor cleaning at a reputable local shop (once per 3-6 months per body) as a normal expense for a macro shooter. I find that minor dust in the bokeh is very easy to fix in post (and is usually on the edges of the shot anyway), but the occasional blob on a major subject feature can indeed ruin a shot. Almost never happened to me tough (knock on wood). YMMV.

old4570 · 10-22-2014, 04:12 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by esrandall

My experience with a couple of the generic eBay ring flash units, is that they aren't very effective. Even maxed out, neither of them gave off enough light to make a difference. I get better results with the onboard camera flash, and a cheap diffuser. So if you see a $30 ring flash, just know that it's one of those "you get what you pay for" kind of deals. The nice one seem to be expensive for good reason.

Unfortunately they tend to be toys , or you have to find settings that work with the ring flash ... Which can be very unforgiving ( Like too slow a shutter speed )
If you can find a regular flash that sits low to the body , it can help enormously . Pentax AF 200 is a nice flash .

---------- Post added 10-23-14 at 10:24 AM ----------

Budget !
Sigma 50mm F2.8 1:1 Macro lens , sitting on a Takumar 2x Tele converter in a Kx Body .
As for the flash , about $30 worth ..
1/ Ring bracket , $15 or so
2/ Flash unit about $11
3/ Hot shoe adapter + cable about $6
4/ Tottal = $32USD

Tamron 90mm SP Di , Pentax K50

Flash = about $30

C mount about $9
Flash about $12
Hot shoe adapter and cable about $6
Tottal = $27USD

Check out Ebay !

OOOOooooops !!!!!! Swivel bracket ! $4 so add $4 ( I knew I was forgetting something )

dakight · 10-22-2014, 04:28 PM

I do have a Pentax AF160 but I didn't really consider it. It's kind of small and not at all adjustable but with the right mount it might be usable.

old4570 · 10-22-2014, 04:38 PM

Just pop it onto the camera and go shoot .. Its the best way to see what it can do ... Try about F11 to F16 to start with ..
If you need a smaller aperture ( Higher F stop ) you can try directing the light to the point of focus in front of the lens .
Some ( Myself ) have used milk cartons to achieve this ( much like a pringles can ) , just wash the carton first , then cut it to fit the flash and so that the light is directed where its needed .
If there is too much light ( ISO 100 , 1/180 , Highest F stop ) then try a diffuser to soften the light ...

arkav · 01-04-2015, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by old4570

C mount about $9
Flash about $12
Hot shoe adapter and cable about $6
Tottal = $27USD

Check out Ebay !

OOOOooooops !!!!!! Swivel bracket ! $4 so add $4 ( I knew I was forgetting something )

There appears to be a bewildering array of different options available on ebay - it's hard to know which bits will work and which won't ( because I'm not really familiar with flash gadgets ).

I'm specifically talking about the brackets, flash adapter, swivel, etc.

Any descriptions of parts and/or links to ebay items you can provide would be appreciated.

10-22-2014, 05:44 AM	#1
dakight Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,216	Macro on a budget I recently acquired a new K-50 with a couple of kit lenses. In addition, I have a set of Vivitar extension tubes, a Pentax-A 50,, f2.0 lens and a Sigma 28-80 Macro lens. I know that the built in flash will be next to useless for very close subjects and the hot shoe mounted flash that I have will likely be no better. I'm thinking of picking up a ring flash but I have a limited budget of no more than $100. I see all sorts of possibilities at B&H, Amazon and Ebay but I don't want to spend money on something I'll later regret. Does anyone have real hands on experience with low budget flash units? I fully understand that they won't perform the same as a $400 Pentax flash unit so I'm not looking for that sort of commentary. Is there any low-budget unit that will be useful for getting started in this arena?

10-22-2014, 08:34 AM	#6
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	I've found that a Pringles-can diffuser with onboard flash can be pretty effective. You might need to shoot at iso800, but I find that to be an acceptable compromise. On a budget, you might also want to pick up a reversal ring and try both your 50mm and your 28-80mm reversed (and on tubes for bonus points). In my experience, reversed lenses (even zooms) can produce extremely good results. Only downside is that you need to find your subject and focus with the lens stopped down, which can be challenging/impossible in anything but strong sunlight. EDIT: That being said, I've now mostly moved to using off-camera flash with a Yonguo YN-560 III plus wireless transmitter. Manual wireless flash is now very affordable, and much more powerful. The main downside is it makes the whole camera unit quite bulky to carry around. Last edited by Doundounba; 10-22-2014 at 08:40 AM.

10-22-2014, 04:12 PM - 1 Like	#12
old4570 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 2,551	Yeah Originally posted by esrandall My experience with a couple of the generic eBay ring flash units, is that they aren't very effective. Even maxed out, neither of them gave off enough light to make a difference. I get better results with the onboard camera flash, and a cheap diffuser. So if you see a $30 ring flash, just know that it's one of those "you get what you pay for" kind of deals. The nice one seem to be expensive for good reason. Unfortunately they tend to be toys , or you have to find settings that work with the ring flash ... Which can be very unforgiving ( Like too slow a shutter speed ) If you can find a regular flash that sits low to the body , it can help enormously . Pentax AF 200 is a nice flash . ---------- Post added 10-23-14 at 10:24 AM ---------- Budget ! Sigma 50mm F2.8 1:1 Macro lens , sitting on a Takumar 2x Tele converter in a Kx Body . As for the flash , about $30 worth .. 1/ Ring bracket , $15 or so 2/ Flash unit about $11 3/ Hot shoe adapter + cable about $6 4/ Tottal = $32USD Tamron 90mm SP Di , Pentax K50 Flash = about $30 C mount about $9 Flash about $12 Hot shoe adapter and cable about $6 Tottal = $27USD Check out Ebay ! OOOOooooops !!!!!! Swivel bracket ! $4 so add $4 ( I knew I was forgetting something ) Last edited by old4570; 10-22-2014 at 04:43 PM.

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10-22-2014, 05:58 AM - 1 Like	#2
Culture Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Vaasa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 818	I dont know what kind of flash you have but I use a yungnuo manual flash to take macro shots. You will find that many here just use manual flashes. Mine is mounted beside the camera on a small rig. This way I can have more control over how I place the flash. This shot was taken with a manual flash.

10-22-2014, 06:41 AM	#3
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	There are many DIY solutions for using the on-board flash. The advantage is you get P-TTL flash control. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/12-post-your-photos/151708-misc-few-diy-m...-diffuser.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/76001-diy-pttl-macro-flash.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/146183-diy-ttl-macro-flash.html DIY or inexpensive solutions https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/228550-my-techn...o-insects.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/242666-my-uni...cro-flash.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/125-flashes-lighting-studio/178382-sunpak...ringflash.html

10-22-2014, 06:59 AM	#4
dakight Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,216 Original Poster	Well, now there are some cool ideas. I would never have thought of it. Very much appreciated!

10-22-2014, 07:49 AM	#5
esrandall Closed Account Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Sumner, WA Photos: Albums Posts: 965	My experience with a couple of the generic eBay ring flash units, is that they aren't very effective. Even maxed out, neither of them gave off enough light to make a difference. I get better results with the onboard camera flash, and a cheap diffuser. So if you see a $30 ring flash, just know that it's one of those "you get what you pay for" kind of deals. The nice one seem to be expensive for good reason.

10-22-2014, 09:30 AM	#7
dakight Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,216 Original Poster	I do have an old "Achiever" af260 with the PZ-10 hot shoe module. From another thread I see that it will work as a manual flash. It is quite powerful so with a remote mounting cable and a bracket I should be able to use it I think. In appearance it is a lot like the Yongnuo with a tilt and swivel flash head. I fired it off while looking at it and couldn't see properly for several minutes afterwards. It may be overkill. I'll probably have to resort to ND filters to avoid having to stop down too much. I have also seen that the Sunpak DX-8 is available at reasonable cost so that's another option.

10-22-2014, 09:39 AM	#8
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by dakight I'll probably have to resort to ND filters to avoid having to stop down too much. Actually, in macro, you want to stop down as much as possible because the DoF becomes incredibly thin. Don't worry too much about diffraction, it's much more of a problem at infinity focus (ie for distant subjects). I've even shot at F/32 with a macro lens and got very good results. Of course, YMMV.

10-22-2014, 12:12 PM	#9
MarkJerling Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wairarapa, New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 20,406	Everyone's beat me to it, but I also use a Pringles flash adapter as well as a $12 reverse mount adapter. or some equally cheap extension tubes. Works a charm on a budget.

10-22-2014, 12:24 PM	#10
LensBeginner Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,696	Originally posted by Doundounba Actually, in macro, you want to stop down as much as possible because the DoF becomes incredibly thin. Don't worry too much about diffraction, it's much more of a problem at infinity focus (ie for distant subjects). I've even shot at F/32 with a macro lens and got very good results. Of course, YMMV. Huge problem with stopping down is you can see all the dust on your sensor... Don't know how you guys keep 'em clean, but it takes me a lot of time in PP just to remove specks in pictures... I use a 2x TC with 1:1 macro function, so my f/22s become f/44s...

10-22-2014, 02:18 PM	#11
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by LensBeginner Huge problem with stopping down is you can see all the dust on your sensor... Problem? Yes. Huge? Not in my opinion. I use a blower semi-regularly and consider an occasional professional sensor cleaning at a reputable local shop (once per 3-6 months per body) as a normal expense for a macro shooter. I find that minor dust in the bokeh is very easy to fix in post (and is usually on the edges of the shot anyway), but the occasional blob on a major subject feature can indeed ruin a shot. Almost never happened to me tough (knock on wood). YMMV.

10-22-2014, 04:28 PM	#13
dakight Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 1,216 Original Poster	I do have a Pentax AF160 but I didn't really consider it. It's kind of small and not at all adjustable but with the right mount it might be usable.

10-22-2014, 04:38 PM	#14
old4570 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 2,551	Just pop it onto the camera and go shoot .. Its the best way to see what it can do ... Try about F11 to F16 to start with .. If you need a smaller aperture ( Higher F stop ) you can try directing the light to the point of focus in front of the lens . Some ( Myself ) have used milk cartons to achieve this ( much like a pringles can ) , just wash the carton first , then cut it to fit the flash and so that the light is directed where its needed . If there is too much light ( ISO 100 , 1/180 , Highest F stop ) then try a diffuser to soften the light ...

01-04-2015, 05:18 PM	#15
arkav Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 366	Originally posted by old4570 C mount about $9 Flash about $12 Hot shoe adapter and cable about $6 Tottal = $27USD Check out Ebay ! OOOOooooops !!!!!! Swivel bracket ! $4 so add $4 ( I knew I was forgetting something ) There appears to be a bewildering array of different options available on ebay - it's hard to know which bits will work and which won't ( because I'm not really familiar with flash gadgets ). I'm specifically talking about the brackets, flash adapter, swivel, etc. Any descriptions of parts and/or links to ebay items you can provide would be appreciated.