K-S2 + DAL 18-50 can't get sharper photo?

FanFanD · 07-26-2016, 07:22 AM - **1 Like**

Hello, I just got my camera this morning with two lens, a DAL 18-50 & a DA 35.

As I notice, the camera with the zoom lense can't get sharp pictures like the standard lense does. At least I think the picture the former gets is a bit too blurred...

Here I have a little test comparing their differences on sharpness. Both are photographed in the same situation and parameters.

I tried to optimize the sharpness of the zoom lense with "AF fine adjustment" in "Custom" option, but whatever parameter I set, it seemed no change!

So please, anyone could tell me how to deal with the problem?

Attached Images

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**BigMackCam** · 07-26-2016, 07:31 AM

Welcome to the forums and congratulations on your new camera!

What aperture are you testing the 18-50 at? Performance at its widest aperture won't be particularly sharp (this is very common with many lenses, especially consumer zooms), whereas the DA35 f/2.4 (I'm assuming that's the one you have) is rather sharp wide open. I would reset the AF fine adjustment back to zero for now, set the aperture to something like f/5.6 at the wide end (18mm) or f/7.1 at the long end (50mm) and see how it looks then.

EDIT: the 18-50 performs best at around f/8, whereas the DA35 f/2.4 is best at f/4.

**UncleVanya** · 07-26-2016, 07:32 AM

You can try using live view and see if that can focus any better. Live view generally doesn't care about calibration and will help determine if there is a larger problem. Alternately using manual focus plus live view focus peaking (magnified) is another way to nail focus and be sure that you compare the best each lens offers.

That being said, the 35 plastic fantastic is quite sharp and could very easily out perform the zoom at wider f/stops. What was the f/stop and other exposure info in these shots?

normhead · 07-26-2016, 10:23 AM

With all due respect... if what you want to do were possible, there would be no reason to buy more expensive lenses would there?

In this post I have explored different ways of getting an image at 35mm, using the 7 different lenses.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/312892-your...mm-images.html

The object is not to make one image look like another, the object is to see the differences in rendition between the different lenses and decide which suits your style. You buy the lens that ha the characteristics you desire. You don't take pictures with an inferior lens and hope to then learn how to match the out put of the more expensive lens.

That is quite simply going to be an endless exercise in frustration.

But just to help you in your quest... I'd use these two examples to at least learn how to do a white balance and normalize black and white points. Your two images look so different, I'm not sure how good a comparison you can make. Especially since the largest factor int eh determining if an image i visually sharp, is contrast and micro contrast.

Last edited by normhead; 07-26-2016 at 10:28 AM.

rbelyell · 07-26-2016, 01:03 PM

well, i'm not sure about more vs less expensive lenses being the issue in this specific case, though it may be. i have a da 20-40 which is not particularly expensive and i love the clarity and detail when paired with my ks2. perhaps i am under-rating my lens! i,m thinking either you need to stop the lens down or you need to adjust its focus with your camera per instructions elsewhere on the forum. i did so with my da ltd 77-1.8 and its been great since. you could also have a bad copy of the lens. or, as has been said, perhaps if all else fails, its just not a good performing lens. good luck.

**UncleVanya** · 07-26-2016, 01:43 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

With all due respect... if what you want to do were possible, there would be no reason to buy more expensive lenses would there?

In this post I have explored different ways of getting an image at 35mm, using the 7 different lenses.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/312892-your...mm-images.html

The object is not to make one image look like another, the object is to see the differences in rendition between the different lenses and decide which suits your style. You buy the lens that ha the characteristics you desire. You don't take pictures with an inferior lens and hope to then learn how to match the out put of the more expensive lens.

That is quite simply going to be an endless exercise in frustration.

But just to help you in your quest... I'd use these two examples to at least learn how to do a white balance and normalize black and white points. Your two images look so different, I'm not sure how good a comparison you can make. Especially since the largest factor int eh determining if an image i visually sharp, is contrast and micro contrast.

He never said they had to look the same - just that the 18-55 wasn't as sharp. It is relevant to know what f/stop and exposure he used and walk him through the differences. I think stopping down to f/8 at a reasonable shutter speed should yield sharp images in both lenses. Rendering will differ as you and I both have discussed. Rendering is a whole different kettle of fish.

Adam · 07-26-2016, 04:34 PM

This looks normal to me. The 35mm is a sharper lens, after all. Both files appear to be in focus for fine-adjustments might actually backfire.

If you're a JPEG shooter, you may want to consider increasing the sharpness when using the 18-50mm, but again this could backfire, so I'd recommend shooting in RAW and cleaning up the sharpness there. Pentax's JPEG engine isn't the best when it comes to sharpening. Ironically, I've obtained the best results with JPEG sharpness turned all the way down.

Adam
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DeadJohn · 07-26-2016, 07:50 PM

I see this is your first post. Welcome.

Your 18-50 image is not that blurry and the kit lens is expected to be less sharp than a prime lens. Also, your test may have suffered from camera shake, missed focus, or not the best aperture for sharpness. Here's one way todo a more controlled test.

Put the camera on a tripod, or if you don't have one rest the camera on a table.
Set the shutter mode to 2 second delay. That lets vibrations from pressing the shutter button stop before the photo happens (it also turns off shake reduction, which should be off for the test).
Set the mode to Av. Aperture f/8 is near as sharp as the 18-50 gets.
Turn on live view, which uses contrast-detect autofocus. Or use manual focus. (Contrast-detect reads directly off the sensor; it tends to be slower but more precise than phase-detect through the viewfinder.)
Press and release the shutter button very gently to take the photo. If the camera is on a table you don't want to shift it's position.

I'll resist commenting on the English product name written on the label. It does not translate well

FanFanD · 07-26-2016, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by BigMackCam

Welcome to the forums and congratulations on your new camera!

What aperture are you testing the 18-50 at? Performance at its widest aperture won't be particularly sharp (this is very common with many lenses, especially consumer zooms), whereas the DA35 f/2.4 (I'm assuming that's the one you have) is rather sharp wide open. I would reset the AF fine adjustment back to zero for now, set the aperture to something like f/5.6 at the wide end (18mm) or f/7.1 at the long end (50mm) and see how it looks then.

EDIT: the 18-50 performs best at around f/8, whereas the DA35 f/2.4 is best at f/4.

@BigMackCam: Thanks! I got the photo with 18-50 at f/4.5 and with DA35 at f/3.2. I didn't realize the relation between aperture and sharpness till you mention about this. Will have another try.

---------

Originally posted by UncleVanya

You can try using live view and see if that can focus any better. Live view generally doesn't care about calibration and will help determine if there is a larger problem. Alternately using manual focus plus live view focus peaking (magnified) is another way to nail focus and be sure that you compare the best each lens offers.

That being said, the 35 plastic fantastic is quite sharp and could very easily out perform the zoom at wider f/stops. What was the f/stop and other exposure info in these shots?

@UncleVanya: Hardly remember another kind of focusing mode. I should have another test in LV mode. Thanks for reminding this.

---------

Originally posted by Adam

This looks normal to me. The 35mm is a sharper lens, after all. Both files appear to be in focus for fine-adjustments might actually backfire.

If you're a JPEG shooter, you may want to consider increasing the sharpness when using the 18-50mm, but again this could backfire, so I'd recommend shooting in RAW and cleaning up the sharpness there. Pentax's JPEG engine isn't the best when it comes to sharpening. Ironically, I've obtained the best results with JPEG sharpness turned all the way down.

@Adam: Many times I can be lazy to edit numerous RAWs so I prefer having a direct result with JPEG unless special occasion comes. Next I should take RAW into consideration. Thanks.

FanFanD · 07-26-2016, 09:27 PM

Have another test about the relation between aperture and sharpness. All captured at viewfinder mode.

Looks sharper when having a smaller aperture according to the photo. Plus, f/13 really makes it clearer but it also requires higher ISO or slower shutter speed. So for the balance between convenience and sharpness, I think f/8 is a good choice.

And I needn't care about my money for a more expensive lense this time

Thanks everyone giving me advice!

07-26-2016, 07:50 PM	#8
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,833	I see this is your first post. Welcome. Your 18-50 image is not that blurry and the kit lens is expected to be less sharp than a prime lens. Also, your test may have suffered from camera shake, missed focus, or not the best aperture for sharpness. Here's one way todo a more controlled test. Put the camera on a tripod, or if you don't have one rest the camera on a table. Set the shutter mode to 2 second delay. That lets vibrations from pressing the shutter button stop before the photo happens (it also turns off shake reduction, which should be off for the test). Set the mode to Av. Aperture f/8 is near as sharp as the 18-50 gets. Turn on live view, which uses contrast-detect autofocus. Or use manual focus. (Contrast-detect reads directly off the sensor; it tends to be slower but more precise than phase-detect through the viewfinder.) Press and release the shutter button very gently to take the photo. If the camera is on a table you don't want to shift it's position. I'll resist commenting on the English product name written on the label. It does not translate well

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07-26-2016, 07:31 AM	#2
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,670	Welcome to the forums and congratulations on your new camera! What aperture are you testing the 18-50 at? Performance at its widest aperture won't be particularly sharp (this is very common with many lenses, especially consumer zooms), whereas the DA35 f/2.4 (I'm assuming that's the one you have) is rather sharp wide open. I would reset the AF fine adjustment back to zero for now, set the aperture to something like f/5.6 at the wide end (18mm) or f/7.1 at the long end (50mm) and see how it looks then. EDIT: the 18-50 performs best at around f/8, whereas the DA35 f/2.4 is best at f/4.

07-26-2016, 07:32 AM	#3
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	You can try using live view and see if that can focus any better. Live view generally doesn't care about calibration and will help determine if there is a larger problem. Alternately using manual focus plus live view focus peaking (magnified) is another way to nail focus and be sure that you compare the best each lens offers. That being said, the 35 plastic fantastic is quite sharp and could very easily out perform the zoom at wider f/stops. What was the f/stop and other exposure info in these shots?

07-26-2016, 10:23 AM	#4
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	With all due respect... if what you want to do were possible, there would be no reason to buy more expensive lenses would there? In this post I have explored different ways of getting an image at 35mm, using the 7 different lenses. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/312892-your...mm-images.html The object is not to make one image look like another, the object is to see the differences in rendition between the different lenses and decide which suits your style. You buy the lens that ha the characteristics you desire. You don't take pictures with an inferior lens and hope to then learn how to match the out put of the more expensive lens. That is quite simply going to be an endless exercise in frustration. But just to help you in your quest... I'd use these two examples to at least learn how to do a white balance and normalize black and white points. Your two images look so different, I'm not sure how good a comparison you can make. Especially since the largest factor int eh determining if an image i visually sharp, is contrast and micro contrast. Last edited by normhead; 07-26-2016 at 10:28 AM.

07-26-2016, 01:03 PM	#5
rbelyell Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 95	well, i'm not sure about more vs less expensive lenses being the issue in this specific case, though it may be. i have a da 20-40 which is not particularly expensive and i love the clarity and detail when paired with my ks2. perhaps i am under-rating my lens! i,m thinking either you need to stop the lens down or you need to adjust its focus with your camera per instructions elsewhere on the forum. i did so with my da ltd 77-1.8 and its been great since. you could also have a bad copy of the lens. or, as has been said, perhaps if all else fails, its just not a good performing lens. good luck.

07-26-2016, 01:43 PM - 1 Like	#6
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	Originally posted by normhead With all due respect... if what you want to do were possible, there would be no reason to buy more expensive lenses would there? In this post I have explored different ways of getting an image at 35mm, using the 7 different lenses. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/312892-your...mm-images.html The object is not to make one image look like another, the object is to see the differences in rendition between the different lenses and decide which suits your style. You buy the lens that ha the characteristics you desire. You don't take pictures with an inferior lens and hope to then learn how to match the out put of the more expensive lens. That is quite simply going to be an endless exercise in frustration. But just to help you in your quest... I'd use these two examples to at least learn how to do a white balance and normalize black and white points. Your two images look so different, I'm not sure how good a comparison you can make. Especially since the largest factor int eh determining if an image i visually sharp, is contrast and micro contrast. He never said they had to look the same - just that the 18-55 wasn't as sharp. It is relevant to know what f/stop and exposure he used and walk him through the differences. I think stopping down to f/8 at a reasonable shutter speed should yield sharp images in both lenses. Rendering will differ as you and I both have discussed. Rendering is a whole different kettle of fish.

07-26-2016, 04:34 PM	#7
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	This looks normal to me. The 35mm is a sharper lens, after all. Both files appear to be in focus for fine-adjustments might actually backfire. If you're a JPEG shooter, you may want to consider increasing the sharpness when using the 18-50mm, but again this could backfire, so I'd recommend shooting in RAW and cleaning up the sharpness there. Pentax's JPEG engine isn't the best when it comes to sharpening. Ironically, I've obtained the best results with JPEG sharpness turned all the way down. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

07-26-2016, 08:52 PM	#9
FanFanD Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Guangdong, China Photos: Albums Posts: 28 Original Poster	Originally posted by BigMackCam Welcome to the forums and congratulations on your new camera! What aperture are you testing the 18-50 at? Performance at its widest aperture won't be particularly sharp (this is very common with many lenses, especially consumer zooms), whereas the DA35 f/2.4 (I'm assuming that's the one you have) is rather sharp wide open. I would reset the AF fine adjustment back to zero for now, set the aperture to something like f/5.6 at the wide end (18mm) or f/7.1 at the long end (50mm) and see how it looks then. EDIT: the 18-50 performs best at around f/8, whereas the DA35 f/2.4 is best at f/4. @BigMackCam: Thanks! I got the photo with 18-50 at f/4.5 and with DA35 at f/3.2. I didn't realize the relation between aperture and sharpness till you mention about this. Will have another try. --------- Originally posted by UncleVanya You can try using live view and see if that can focus any better. Live view generally doesn't care about calibration and will help determine if there is a larger problem. Alternately using manual focus plus live view focus peaking (magnified) is another way to nail focus and be sure that you compare the best each lens offers. That being said, the 35 plastic fantastic is quite sharp and could very easily out perform the zoom at wider f/stops. What was the f/stop and other exposure info in these shots? @UncleVanya: Hardly remember another kind of focusing mode. I should have another test in LV mode. Thanks for reminding this. --------- Originally posted by Adam This looks normal to me. The 35mm is a sharper lens, after all. Both files appear to be in focus for fine-adjustments might actually backfire. If you're a JPEG shooter, you may want to consider increasing the sharpness when using the 18-50mm, but again this could backfire, so I'd recommend shooting in RAW and cleaning up the sharpness there. Pentax's JPEG engine isn't the best when it comes to sharpening. Ironically, I've obtained the best results with JPEG sharpness turned all the way down. @Adam: Many times I can be lazy to edit numerous RAWs so I prefer having a direct result with JPEG unless special occasion comes. Next I should take RAW into consideration. Thanks.

07-26-2016, 09:27 PM	#10
FanFanD Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Guangdong, China Photos: Albums Posts: 28 Original Poster	Have another test about the relation between aperture and sharpness. All captured at viewfinder mode. Looks sharper when having a smaller aperture according to the photo. Plus, f/13 really makes it clearer but it also requires higher ISO or slower shutter speed. So for the balance between convenience and sharpness, I think f/8 is a good choice. And I needn't care about my money for a more expensive lense this time Thanks everyone giving me advice!