Reliability: K-S1, K-S2 vs K-70?

runswithsizzers · 10-23-2016, 05:39 PM

Can anyone speculate about the expected reliability of the K-70 vs the K-S1 and K-S2, based on intimate knowledge of their working parts?

When I say "reliability" I do not mean which camera will endure the most wear and tear, but rather which camera has the fewest weaknesses due to design and manufacturing defects.

I am not interested in "n of 1" reports - that is, "I've got one, and never had any problems" - but rather I'd like to hear from someone who has seen the insides of enough cameras with problems to know what weak spots might exist in the K-70.

Right now, I am not interested in comparing, features, image quality, ergonomics, value, etc. That is, I'd like to concentrate only on which camera is least likely (or most likely) to crap out on me in the next 4 or 5 years of moderate use.

Thank you,

-gw

Marcello85 · 10-23-2016, 06:09 PM - **1 Like**

Noone will ever tell you what you want to hear. Your question sounds like "tell me wich plane will not crash". They are mechanical objects and so they can break. That's it.
In Italy we say " You can't break what you don't have". So..buy the KS-1, wich is the simplest camera of the group. it's obviously the one with less parts that can get broken.
Otherwise: more the quality, more the durability.
In general, they are all consumer camera, and following economic laws they probably share the 80% of their technologies. Then there is a lot of the new K1 on the K70 so, i think, it's simply too early to even make a poll about possible failures... that's why often people say not to buy the latest item, but the tested one.
In my personal opinion, I just will wait a bit: prices are going to decrease and possible errors will emerge.
Beyond all you should evaluate, and honestly I'm telling you this stuff with a lot of envy, that now there is the wonderful K 3ii that costs just a little bit more than the new K-70... if i were you, i'd buy that one without waiting a second.

**Alex645** · 10-23-2016, 06:42 PM

The K-S1 was released in the fall of 2014, the K-S2 late winter 2015, and the K-70 about 4 months ago. The K-70 is so new, the only person who can respond to your post would need to be an employee at a Pentax authorized repair facility like Precision or if someone at DPReview has cannibalized these cameras.

It would be pure speculation which cameras will live 4-5 years when the oldest of the bunch is now only a couple years old. The K-S1 not being weather-sealed has to be deemed the most likely to "crap" out and the K-70 being positioned above the K-S2 was designed to be the most rugged and durable on your list. Consensus on the K-S1 ad K-S2 is that they should average around 50,000 actuations and the K-70 100,000...but there is no official specs that I know of.

If you are a professional photographer needing 4-5 years of moderate use, then you should seriously consider the K-3 or K-3II.

Adam · 10-23-2016, 07:16 PM

I think they are all comparable. The aperture failure issue doesn't seem to affect these three bodies nearly as much as the cameras they replaced, which is good. That said, it seems like the internals (shutter, SR) are rather similar.

Like others have pointed out, though, these aren't designed as workhorse bodies. Pentax doesn't quote an expected shutter for them. If you want something that can more reliably take hundreds of thousands of shots, go for a model in the flagship series

Adam
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**clackers** · 10-23-2016, 08:08 PM

And remember extended warranties, if - and this seems to be the case - you're dwelling on this issue.

A member survey here had the Aperture failure issue on the low end Pentax bodies measuring at around 30%, and someone inferred from it a true figure lies somewhere between that and 6 percent.

runswithsizzers · 10-23-2016, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Alex645

The K-S1 was released in the fall of 2014, the K-S2 late winter 2015, and the K-70 about 4 months ago. The K-70 is so new, the only person who can respond to your post would need to be an employee at a Pentax authorized repair facility like Precision or if someone at DPReview has cannibalized these cameras.

It would be pure speculation which cameras will live 4-5 years when the oldest of the bunch is now only a couple years old. The K-S1 not being weather-sealed has to be deemed the most likely to "crap" out and the K-70 being positioned above the K-S2 was designed to be the most rugged and durable on your list. Consensus on the K-S1 ad K-S2 is that they should average around 50,000 actuations and the K-70 100,000...but there is no official specs that I know of.

If you are a professional photographer needing 4-5 years of moderate use, then you should seriously consider the K-3 or K-3II.

OK, I'm not a professional photographer, and it's highly unlikely I'll ever wear out any camera. I bought my first and only digital camera in 2010 - a Pentax K-x - and that's the one I'm still using today. I just checked the shutter count on my K-x - 9,224 - or about 1,540/year. I spent too many years shooting slides when I was in an income bracket that made me painfully aware of how much money each click of the shutter cost me - so my shooting style tends to be somewhat contemplative.

So, by your numbers, a K-S1 or K-S2 ought to last me about 32 years, right? Sweet!

Given the lack of data, the rarity of persons actually qualified to answer my question, and considering market value of idle speculation, I withdraw the question.

It's true, the K-3 (or variant) is probably the camera I need, and, also, I deserve one. I may even buy one someday.

But right now I am focusing on an extended hiking tour of SW France; small and light are are at the top of my list. The K-3 is a great camera, but not what I would call light. Sadly, I'm still not in an income bracket that allows many indulgences, and France is going to expensive - so cost is also a factor against the K-3.

All indicators point toward the K-S1, which I'm guessing will be a fair step up from my K-x. Hopefully, a new K-S1 will be more reliable than my 6-year-old K-x. The K-50 would be a contender, but for some reason current prices for the K-50 are $50-100 more than a K-S1. As much as I'd like to be able to put AA batteries in the K-50 (and NOT carry a battery charger in my pack), I can't justify paying $450 for a K-50.

I don't care too much about weather sealing. I've never hesitated to use my film cameras (love my old M-x) and my K-x out in a light rain or near a misty waterfall, and I've never had any problems. My only camera that was killed by water was one I had to dive to the bottom of a river to recover after my canoe went keel up.

Thanks to you and Marcello85 for helping me focus on more practical aspects.

---------- Post added 10-23-16 at 10:26 PM ----------

Originally posted by clackers

And remember extended warranties, if - and this seems to be the case - you're dwelling on this issue.

A member survey here had the Aperture failure issue on the low end Pentax bodies measuring at around 30%, and someone inferred from it a true figure lies somewhere between that and 6 percent.

Now you are scaring me. Are you saying 6-30% of low end Pentax bodies will have "Aperture failures" (what ever that is)? I do not like those odds. And which exact models are you talking about?

This is the kind of info I was looking for - not how many times can I click the shutter - but are there any "issues" with the design and engineering that affect some models more than others?

**Alex645** · 10-23-2016, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by runswithsizzers

The K-3 is a great camera, but not what I would call light.

All indicators point toward the K-S1, which I'm guessing will be a fair step up from my K-x. Hopefully, a new K-S1 will be more reliable than my 6-year-old K-x. The K-50 would be a contender, but for some reason current prices for the K-50 are $50-100 more than a K-S1.
I don't care too much about weather sealing. I've never hesitated to use my film cameras (love my old M-x) and my K-x out in a light rain or near a misty waterfall, and I've never had any problems.

---------- Post added 10-23-16 at 10:26 PM ----------

Now you are scaring me. Are you saying 6-30% of low end Pentax bodies will have "Aperture failures" (what ever that is)? I do not like those odds. And which exact models are you talking about?

Certainly the K-S1 is the lightweight of the group, but I believe itʻs been discontinued. If youʻre leaning toward that model, you may have to act fast as inventory of unsold units is dwindling. The K-S2 and K-70 are nearly identical in weight; the K-3 is about 130 grams heavier. The biggest factor here is going to be your lenses.

The aperture block failures have NOT been widely reported in any of the cameras on your list. They were problematic on the K-50/K-30, but knock on wood, I know at least 8 people with the K-50 and none of them have had this failure yet.

LightBug · 10-23-2016, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by runswithsizzers

OK, I'm not a professional photographer, and it's highly unlikely I'll ever wear out any camera. I bought my first and only digital camera in 2010 - a Pentax K-x - and that's the one I'm still using today. I just checked the shutter count on my K-x - 9,224 - or about 1,540/year. I spent too many years shooting slides when I was in an income bracket that made me painfully aware of how much money each click of the shutter cost me - so my shooting style tends to be somewhat contemplative.

So, by your numbers, a K-S1 or K-S2 ought to last me about 32 years, right? Sweet!

Given the lack of data, the rarity of persons actually qualified to answer my question, and considering market value of idle speculation, I withdraw the question.

It's true, the K-3 (or variant) is probably the camera I need, and, also, I deserve one. I may even buy one someday.

But right now I am focusing on an extended hiking tour of SW France; small and light are are at the top of my list. The K-3 is a great camera, but not what I would call light. Sadly, I'm still not in an income bracket that allows many indulgences, and France is going to expensive - so cost is also a factor against the K-3.

All indicators point toward the K-S1, which I'm guessing will be a fair step up from my K-x. Hopefully, a new K-S1 will be more reliable than my 6-year-old K-x. The K-50 would be a contender, but for some reason current prices for the K-50 are $50-100 more than a K-S1. As much as I'd like to be able to put AA batteries in the K-50 (and NOT carry a battery charger in my pack), I can't justify paying $450 for a K-50.

I don't care too much about weather sealing. I've never hesitated to use my film cameras (love my old M-x) and my K-x out in a light rain or near a misty waterfall, and I've never had any problems. My only camera that was killed by water was one I had to dive to the bottom of a river to recover after my canoe went keel up.

Thanks to you and Marcello85 for helping me focus on more practical aspects.

---------- Post added 10-23-16 at 10:26 PM ----------

Now you are scaring me. Are you saying 6-30% of low end Pentax bodies will have "Aperture failures" (what ever that is)? I do not like those odds. And which exact models are you talking about?

This is the kind of info I was looking for - not how many times can I click the shutter - but are there any "issues" with the design and engineering that affect some models more than others?

Maybe look into Ricoh GR + GW3 wide angle lens. I take my Pentax APSC DSLR with DA 21mm and DA15mm on long trips, so the GR combo previously mentioned is the light weight combo I myself have been contemplating to get to replace my DSLR kit.

JohnX · 10-24-2016, 02:56 AM

Just a comment on the K-S1, which I have with other Pentax cameras. Bought it as a relatively cheap, light-weight, high IQ body to pair with my DA Ltds as a walk-around kit. Superb for that purpose.

runswithsizzers · 10-24-2016, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Alex645

Certainly the K-S1 is the lightweight of the group, but I believe itʻs been discontinued. If youʻre leaning toward that model, you may have to act fast as inventory of unsold units is dwindling. The K-S2 and K-70 are nearly identical in weight; the K-3 is about 130 grams heavier. The biggest factor here is going to be your lenses.

I see a few new K-S1s still avail at $350-400.

I will be carrying 3 primes, only: the 21mm and 70mm DA Limited, and the 35mm DA-L. So, the 130 gram penalty of the K-3 would be about like adding a 4th lens. Not a deal breaker, weightwise, but the additional cost may be.

For about the same price of the K-3, I might be tempted to abandon my Pentax 3-prime kit, and get the Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100S, instead.

10-23-2016, 05:39 PM	#1
runswithsizzers Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: USA Posts: 186	Reliability: K-S1, K-S2 vs K-70? Can anyone speculate about the expected reliability of the K-70 vs the K-S1 and K-S2, based on intimate knowledge of their working parts? When I say "reliability" I do not mean which camera will endure the most wear and tear, but rather which camera has the fewest weaknesses due to design and manufacturing defects. I am not interested in "n of 1" reports - that is, "I've got one, and never had any problems" - but rather I'd like to hear from someone who has seen the insides of enough cameras with problems to know what weak spots might exist in the K-70. Right now, I am not interested in comparing, features, image quality, ergonomics, value, etc. That is, I'd like to concentrate only on which camera is least likely (or most likely) to crap out on me in the next 4 or 5 years of moderate use. Thank you, -gw

10-24-2016, 02:56 AM	#9
JohnX Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 1,116	Just a comment on the K-S1, which I have with other Pentax cameras. Bought it as a relatively cheap, light-weight, high IQ body to pair with my DA Ltds as a walk-around kit. Superb for that purpose. Last edited by JohnX; 10-24-2016 at 07:53 AM.

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10-23-2016, 06:09 PM - 1 Like	#2
Marcello85 New Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Pavia Posts: 2	Noone will ever tell you what you want to hear. Your question sounds like "tell me wich plane will not crash". They are mechanical objects and so they can break. That's it. In Italy we say " You can't break what you don't have". So..buy the KS-1, wich is the simplest camera of the group. it's obviously the one with less parts that can get broken. Otherwise: more the quality, more the durability. In general, they are all consumer camera, and following economic laws they probably share the 80% of their technologies. Then there is a lot of the new K1 on the K70 so, i think, it's simply too early to even make a poll about possible failures... that's why often people say not to buy the latest item, but the tested one. In my personal opinion, I just will wait a bit: prices are going to decrease and possible errors will emerge. Beyond all you should evaluate, and honestly I'm telling you this stuff with a lot of envy, that now there is the wonderful K 3ii that costs just a little bit more than the new K-70... if i were you, i'd buy that one without waiting a second.

10-23-2016, 06:42 PM	#3
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	The K-S1 was released in the fall of 2014, the K-S2 late winter 2015, and the K-70 about 4 months ago. The K-70 is so new, the only person who can respond to your post would need to be an employee at a Pentax authorized repair facility like Precision or if someone at DPReview has cannibalized these cameras. It would be pure speculation which cameras will live 4-5 years when the oldest of the bunch is now only a couple years old. The K-S1 not being weather-sealed has to be deemed the most likely to "crap" out and the K-70 being positioned above the K-S2 was designed to be the most rugged and durable on your list. Consensus on the K-S1 ad K-S2 is that they should average around 50,000 actuations and the K-70 100,000...but there is no official specs that I know of. If you are a professional photographer needing 4-5 years of moderate use, then you should seriously consider the K-3 or K-3II.

10-23-2016, 07:16 PM	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	I think they are all comparable. The aperture failure issue doesn't seem to affect these three bodies nearly as much as the cameras they replaced, which is good. That said, it seems like the internals (shutter, SR) are rather similar. Like others have pointed out, though, these aren't designed as workhorse bodies. Pentax doesn't quote an expected shutter for them. If you want something that can more reliably take hundreds of thousands of shots, go for a model in the flagship series Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

10-23-2016, 08:08 PM	#5
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	And remember extended warranties, if - and this seems to be the case - you're dwelling on this issue. A member survey here had the Aperture failure issue on the low end Pentax bodies measuring at around 30%, and someone inferred from it a true figure lies somewhere between that and 6 percent.

10-23-2016, 08:15 PM	#6
runswithsizzers Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: USA Posts: 186 Original Poster	Originally posted by Alex645 The K-S1 was released in the fall of 2014, the K-S2 late winter 2015, and the K-70 about 4 months ago. The K-70 is so new, the only person who can respond to your post would need to be an employee at a Pentax authorized repair facility like Precision or if someone at DPReview has cannibalized these cameras. It would be pure speculation which cameras will live 4-5 years when the oldest of the bunch is now only a couple years old. The K-S1 not being weather-sealed has to be deemed the most likely to "crap" out and the K-70 being positioned above the K-S2 was designed to be the most rugged and durable on your list. Consensus on the K-S1 ad K-S2 is that they should average around 50,000 actuations and the K-70 100,000...but there is no official specs that I know of. If you are a professional photographer needing 4-5 years of moderate use, then you should seriously consider the K-3 or K-3II. OK, I'm not a professional photographer, and it's highly unlikely I'll ever wear out any camera. I bought my first and only digital camera in 2010 - a Pentax K-x - and that's the one I'm still using today. I just checked the shutter count on my K-x - 9,224 - or about 1,540/year. I spent too many years shooting slides when I was in an income bracket that made me painfully aware of how much money each click of the shutter cost me - so my shooting style tends to be somewhat contemplative. So, by your numbers, a K-S1 or K-S2 ought to last me about 32 years, right? Sweet! Given the lack of data, the rarity of persons actually qualified to answer my question, and considering market value of idle speculation, I withdraw the question. It's true, the K-3 (or variant) is probably the camera I need, and, also, I deserve one. I may even buy one someday. But right now I am focusing on an extended hiking tour of SW France; small and light are are at the top of my list. The K-3 is a great camera, but not what I would call light. Sadly, I'm still not in an income bracket that allows many indulgences, and France is going to expensive - so cost is also a factor against the K-3. All indicators point toward the K-S1, which I'm guessing will be a fair step up from my K-x. Hopefully, a new K-S1 will be more reliable than my 6-year-old K-x. The K-50 would be a contender, but for some reason current prices for the K-50 are $50-100 more than a K-S1. As much as I'd like to be able to put AA batteries in the K-50 (and NOT carry a battery charger in my pack), I can't justify paying $450 for a K-50. I don't care too much about weather sealing. I've never hesitated to use my film cameras (love my old M-x) and my K-x out in a light rain or near a misty waterfall, and I've never had any problems. My only camera that was killed by water was one I had to dive to the bottom of a river to recover after my canoe went keel up. Thanks to you and Marcello85 for helping me focus on more practical aspects. ---------- Post added 10-23-16 at 10:26 PM ---------- Originally posted by clackers And remember extended warranties, if - and this seems to be the case - you're dwelling on this issue. A member survey here had the Aperture failure issue on the low end Pentax bodies measuring at around 30%, and someone inferred from it a true figure lies somewhere between that and 6 percent. Now you are scaring me. Are you saying 6-30% of low end Pentax bodies will have "Aperture failures" (what ever that is)? I do not like those odds. And which exact models are you talking about? This is the kind of info I was looking for - not how many times can I click the shutter - but are there any "issues" with the design and engineering that affect some models more than others?

10-23-2016, 10:30 PM	#7
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,527	Originally posted by runswithsizzers The K-3 is a great camera, but not what I would call light. All indicators point toward the K-S1, which I'm guessing will be a fair step up from my K-x. Hopefully, a new K-S1 will be more reliable than my 6-year-old K-x. The K-50 would be a contender, but for some reason current prices for the K-50 are $50-100 more than a K-S1. I don't care too much about weather sealing. I've never hesitated to use my film cameras (love my old M-x) and my K-x out in a light rain or near a misty waterfall, and I've never had any problems. ---------- Post added 10-23-16 at 10:26 PM ---------- Now you are scaring me. Are you saying 6-30% of low end Pentax bodies will have "Aperture failures" (what ever that is)? I do not like those odds. And which exact models are you talking about? Certainly the K-S1 is the lightweight of the group, but I believe itʻs been discontinued. If youʻre leaning toward that model, you may have to act fast as inventory of unsold units is dwindling. The K-S2 and K-70 are nearly identical in weight; the K-3 is about 130 grams heavier. The biggest factor here is going to be your lenses. The aperture block failures have NOT been widely reported in any of the cameras on your list. They were problematic on the K-50/K-30, but knock on wood, I know at least 8 people with the K-50 and none of them have had this failure yet.

10-23-2016, 10:53 PM	#8
LightBug Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: OC, CA, USA Posts: 506	Originally posted by runswithsizzers OK, I'm not a professional photographer, and it's highly unlikely I'll ever wear out any camera. I bought my first and only digital camera in 2010 - a Pentax K-x - and that's the one I'm still using today. I just checked the shutter count on my K-x - 9,224 - or about 1,540/year. I spent too many years shooting slides when I was in an income bracket that made me painfully aware of how much money each click of the shutter cost me - so my shooting style tends to be somewhat contemplative. So, by your numbers, a K-S1 or K-S2 ought to last me about 32 years, right? Sweet! Given the lack of data, the rarity of persons actually qualified to answer my question, and considering market value of idle speculation, I withdraw the question. It's true, the K-3 (or variant) is probably the camera I need, and, also, I deserve one. I may even buy one someday. But right now I am focusing on an extended hiking tour of SW France; small and light are are at the top of my list. The K-3 is a great camera, but not what I would call light. Sadly, I'm still not in an income bracket that allows many indulgences, and France is going to expensive - so cost is also a factor against the K-3. All indicators point toward the K-S1, which I'm guessing will be a fair step up from my K-x. Hopefully, a new K-S1 will be more reliable than my 6-year-old K-x. The K-50 would be a contender, but for some reason current prices for the K-50 are $50-100 more than a K-S1. As much as I'd like to be able to put AA batteries in the K-50 (and NOT carry a battery charger in my pack), I can't justify paying $450 for a K-50. I don't care too much about weather sealing. I've never hesitated to use my film cameras (love my old M-x) and my K-x out in a light rain or near a misty waterfall, and I've never had any problems. My only camera that was killed by water was one I had to dive to the bottom of a river to recover after my canoe went keel up. Thanks to you and Marcello85 for helping me focus on more practical aspects. ---------- Post added 10-23-16 at 10:26 PM ---------- Now you are scaring me. Are you saying 6-30% of low end Pentax bodies will have "Aperture failures" (what ever that is)? I do not like those odds. And which exact models are you talking about? This is the kind of info I was looking for - not how many times can I click the shutter - but are there any "issues" with the design and engineering that affect some models more than others? Maybe look into Ricoh GR + GW3 wide angle lens. I take my Pentax APSC DSLR with DA 21mm and DA15mm on long trips, so the GR combo previously mentioned is the light weight combo I myself have been contemplating to get to replace my DSLR kit.

10-24-2016, 07:52 AM	#10
runswithsizzers Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: USA Posts: 186 Original Poster	Originally posted by Alex645 Certainly the K-S1 is the lightweight of the group, but I believe itʻs been discontinued. If youʻre leaning toward that model, you may have to act fast as inventory of unsold units is dwindling. The K-S2 and K-70 are nearly identical in weight; the K-3 is about 130 grams heavier. The biggest factor here is going to be your lenses. I see a few new K-S1s still avail at $350-400. I will be carrying 3 primes, only: the 21mm and 70mm DA Limited, and the 35mm DA-L. So, the 130 gram penalty of the K-3 would be about like adding a 4th lens. Not a deal breaker, weightwise, but the additional cost may be. For about the same price of the K-3, I might be tempted to abandon my Pentax 3-prime kit, and get the Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100S, instead.