Shutter lag debate K10D

Christian · 04-20-2007, 02:28 AM

Just a quick note to say that the shutter noise we were discussing was is also mentioned in 'Digital SLR' magazine this month... refers to a clunk rather than a click.. which is what talking about as being the reason people might think there is lag. They also said, as I did, that you would prob get used to the sound. Do bear in mind tha tthis was in a Pentax sposored page (advertisement) so they couldn't say anything too negative.

SupremeMoFo · 04-20-2007, 03:24 AM

Switch to manual focus and reconsider to those who think there is lag I say, and realise what you're talking about.

Christian · 04-20-2007, 04:15 AM

Why do people keep bringing up focusing when discussing shutter lag? I think most of us here can tell the difference thanks. Also.. I'm referring to the noise of the shutter... ... and that it 'sounds' like shuuter lag. As to actual shutter lag.. I can't coment.. I only tested the camer for an hour and had other things to look at to.

Gimbal · 04-20-2007, 04:58 AM

People bring up focusing when discussing shutter lag because that’s the only (noticeable) lag there is. As for the sound, it sounds like a camera.

Christian · 04-20-2007, 06:10 AM

oh ok. Then the photographer reviewing the camera in magazine must be as inexperienced as me.

Focusing has nothing to do with lag!!!!!!!!! Jeez.

**iCrop** · 04-20-2007, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Christian

Just a quick note to say that the shutter noise we were discussing was is also mentioned in 'Digital SLR' magazine this month... refers to a clunk rather than a click.. which is what talking about as being the reason people might think there is lag. They also said, as I did, that you would prob get used to the sound. Do bear in mind tha tthis was in a Pentax sposored page (advertisement) so they couldn't say anything too negative.

I think the shutter lag thing is a matter of perspective. You seem to be implying that the lag is comprised of the sound the shutter makes. I think typically shutter lag is defined by the time between when you press the shutter release button and when the picture is actually taken. Shutter lag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With all cameras that have auto focus, and focus before the picture is taken, there will be a lag in order for the auto focus to do its job. This is where DSLRs have an advantage over point and shoot cameras. I think most DSLRs will allow you to take a picture with out first focusing, or having previously focused.

My first digital camera was a Kodak DX3600, which seemed to take forever to focus and then finally take the picture. I then bought my wife a Canon S530, which was just as bad, but made so much more noise doing the auto focusing and such, that you could pull the camera away thinking you had taken the picture, and then you’d see the flash and hear the pseudo click. I was quite pleased when I got my first DSLR, a *ist D, and found that you could override the auto focus of the shutter release button and focus only with the AF button. Once focused, just click, click, click. No perceived lag. My K10D is even better, particularly between subsequent pictures, because it uses faster SD cards, and I’m sure, faster electronics.

I wonder what the poster in the other thread was comparing the K10D to in relation to shutter lag.

This is just my perspective.

**jfdavis58** · 04-20-2007, 07:30 AM

I read this thread; it all seems a little silly. You and others are claiming a shutter lag based on it's noise????

Adam · 04-20-2007, 07:49 AM

Yeah, I can't see how noise relates to lag...

Remember that SR also takes time to realign.

matsoberg · 04-20-2007, 07:56 AM

When talking about shutter lag, I think one needs to know what it means before discussing it.

Shutter lag = The time it takes from pressing the button until the shutter operates.

Shutter sound= The way the shutter sounds.

Thank you.

// Mats

Bob Wallace · 04-20-2007, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by iCrop

. I think typically shutter lag is defined by the time between when you press the shutter release button and when the picture is actually taken.

DPReview calls this "Total Shutter Lag". It's a combination of AF time + mirror swing time for dSLRs + a little time to get the shutter moving. For non-dSLRs it's AF time + a little 'get it going' time.

We need better terms. That bit of time between AF (+ mirror swing) and shutter movement needs a name. Personally, I'd call that shutter lag and the cumulative time from shutter button press to exposure begun something else.

Quote:

With all cameras that have auto focus, and focus before the picture is taken, there will be a lag in order for the auto focus to do its job. This is where DSLRs have an advantage over point and shoot cameras. I think most DSLRs will allow you to take a picture with out first focusing, or having previously focused.

Actually some non-dSLRs have a lower total shutter lag than some dSLRs.

And some non-dSLRs also allow you to forgo focusing (lock in focus from ~5' to infinity) which makes them significantly faster than any dSLR.

RiceHigh · 04-20-2007, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by jfdavis58

I read this thread; it all seems a little silly. You and others are claiming a shutter lag based on it's noise????

That's the key reason why measurbation has its place and is actually crucial, whenever our feelings (what we see and hear) are not reliable as we believe, and also especially when different persons have different "feelings"!

WMBP · 04-20-2007, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Christian

Just a quick note to say that the shutter noise we were discussing was is also mentioned in 'Digital SLR' magazine this month... refers to a clunk rather than a click.. which is what talking about as being the reason people might think there is lag. They also said, as I did, that you would prob get used to the sound. Do bear in mind that this was in a Pentax sposored page (advertisement) so they couldn't say anything too negative.

Christian,

Don't by any chance have a web link to the article, do you? I can't find it via Google.

Will

RiceHigh · 04-20-2007, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by matsoberg

When talking about shutter lag, I think one needs to know what it means before discussing it.

Shutter lag = The time it takes from pressing the button until the shutter operates.

Shutter sound= The way the shutter sounds.

Thank you.

// Mats

But from the sound when it happens for the shutter opening, the shutter lag time can be detected!

If human feeling is not reliable enough, just measure it! Here is what I did a while ago:-

RiceHigh's Pentax K100D Full Review

Actually, Phil Askey do the same for recording the sounds for measuring the timings in his review. But unfortunately and I don't know why, he seems have never posted the mere shutter lag time alone, but only the total lag time, which is inclusive of AF time and shutter (system) time lag.

tinospiros · 04-20-2007, 08:39 AM

Shutter lag on the Pentax cameras is quite short, & not easily distinguishable from other brands.

Mirror blackout on the other hand is relatively long compared to Nikon/Canon etc, & I think this is what is immediately noticeable, & why sound comes into the equation. Compare mirror blackout time to an old film camer like an ME Super & you'll know what I mean. My old Dynax 7 also had incredibly short mirror blackout compared to the K10 etc.

RiceHigh · 04-20-2007, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by tinospiros

Shutter lag on the Pentax cameras is quite short, & not easily distinguishable from other brands.

Mirror blackout on the other hand is relatively long compared to Nikon/Canon etc, & I think this is what is immediately noticeable, & why sound comes into the equation. Compare mirror blackout time to an old film camer like an ME Super & you'll know what I mean. My old Dynax 7 also had incredibly short mirror blackout compared to the K10 etc.

If the camera has a long shutter lag, then the finder black out time will be longer.

But the longer black out time can also be caused by a sluggish mirror return which is still undesirable anyway.

Actually, only measurbation and comparison will tell the answers! :-)

04-20-2007, 02:28 AM	#1
Christian Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Islington, London UK Posts: 206	Shutter lag debate K10D Just a quick note to say that the shutter noise we were discussing was is also mentioned in 'Digital SLR' magazine this month... refers to a clunk rather than a click.. which is what talking about as being the reason people might think there is lag. They also said, as I did, that you would prob get used to the sound. Do bear in mind tha tthis was in a Pentax sposored page (advertisement) so they couldn't say anything too negative.

04-20-2007, 07:30 AM	#6
iCrop Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson Photos: Gallery Posts: 292	Perspective Originally posted by Christian Just a quick note to say that the shutter noise we were discussing was is also mentioned in 'Digital SLR' magazine this month... refers to a clunk rather than a click.. which is what talking about as being the reason people might think there is lag. They also said, as I did, that you would prob get used to the sound. Do bear in mind tha tthis was in a Pentax sposored page (advertisement) so they couldn't say anything too negative. I think the shutter lag thing is a matter of perspective. You seem to be implying that the lag is comprised of the sound the shutter makes. I think typically shutter lag is defined by the time between when you press the shutter release button and when the picture is actually taken. Shutter lag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia With all cameras that have auto focus, and focus before the picture is taken, there will be a lag in order for the auto focus to do its job. This is where DSLRs have an advantage over point and shoot cameras. I think most DSLRs will allow you to take a picture with out first focusing, or having previously focused. My first digital camera was a Kodak DX3600, which seemed to take forever to focus and then finally take the picture. I then bought my wife a Canon S530, which was just as bad, but made so much more noise doing the auto focusing and such, that you could pull the camera away thinking you had taken the picture, and then you’d see the flash and hear the pseudo click. I was quite pleased when I got my first DSLR, a *ist D, and found that you could override the auto focus of the shutter release button and focus only with the AF button. Once focused, just click, click, click. No perceived lag. My K10D is even better, particularly between subsequent pictures, because it uses faster SD cards, and I’m sure, faster electronics. I wonder what the poster in the other thread was comparing the K10D to in relation to shutter lag. This is just my perspective.

04-20-2007, 07:49 AM	#8
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Yeah, I can't see how noise relates to lag... Remember that SR also takes time to realign. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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04-20-2007, 03:24 AM	#2
SupremeMoFo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 668	Switch to manual focus and reconsider to those who think there is lag I say, and realise what you're talking about.

04-20-2007, 04:15 AM	#3
Christian Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Islington, London UK Posts: 206 Original Poster	Why do people keep bringing up focusing when discussing shutter lag? I think most of us here can tell the difference thanks. Also.. I'm referring to the noise of the shutter... ... and that it 'sounds' like shuuter lag. As to actual shutter lag.. I can't coment.. I only tested the camer for an hour and had other things to look at to.

04-20-2007, 04:58 AM	#4
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	People bring up focusing when discussing shutter lag because that’s the only (noticeable) lag there is. As for the sound, it sounds like a camera.

04-20-2007, 06:10 AM	#5
Christian Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Islington, London UK Posts: 206 Original Poster	oh ok. Then the photographer reviewing the camera in magazine must be as inexperienced as me. Focusing has nothing to do with lag!!!!!!!!! Jeez.

04-20-2007, 07:30 AM	#7
jfdavis58 Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 13 S 0357397-3884316 Photos: Gallery Posts: 887	I read this thread; it all seems a little silly. You and others are claiming a shutter lag based on it's noise????

04-20-2007, 07:56 AM	#9
matsoberg Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norrtälje Posts: 220	When talking about shutter lag, I think one needs to know what it means before discussing it. Shutter lag = The time it takes from pressing the button until the shutter operates. Shutter sound= The way the shutter sounds. Thank you. // Mats

04-20-2007, 08:05 AM	#10
Bob Wallace Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bridgeville CA Posts: 73	Originally posted by iCrop . I think typically shutter lag is defined by the time between when you press the shutter release button and when the picture is actually taken. DPReview calls this "Total Shutter Lag". It's a combination of AF time + mirror swing time for dSLRs + a little time to get the shutter moving. For non-dSLRs it's AF time + a little 'get it going' time. We need better terms. That bit of time between AF (+ mirror swing) and shutter movement needs a name. Personally, I'd call that shutter lag and the cumulative time from shutter button press to exposure begun something else. Quote: With all cameras that have auto focus, and focus before the picture is taken, there will be a lag in order for the auto focus to do its job. This is where DSLRs have an advantage over point and shoot cameras. I think most DSLRs will allow you to take a picture with out first focusing, or having previously focused. Actually some non-dSLRs have a lower total shutter lag than some dSLRs. And some non-dSLRs also allow you to forgo focusing (lock in focus from ~5' to infinity) which makes them significantly faster than any dSLR.

04-20-2007, 08:07 AM	#11
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Originally posted by jfdavis58 I read this thread; it all seems a little silly. You and others are claiming a shutter lag based on it's noise???? That's the key reason why measurbation has its place and is actually crucial, whenever our feelings (what we see and hear) are not reliable as we believe, and also especially when different persons have different "feelings"!

04-20-2007, 08:07 AM	#12
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by Christian Just a quick note to say that the shutter noise we were discussing was is also mentioned in 'Digital SLR' magazine this month... refers to a clunk rather than a click.. which is what talking about as being the reason people might think there is lag. They also said, as I did, that you would prob get used to the sound. Do bear in mind that this was in a Pentax sposored page (advertisement) so they couldn't say anything too negative. Christian, Don't by any chance have a web link to the article, do you? I can't find it via Google. Will

04-20-2007, 08:13 AM	#13
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Originally posted by matsoberg When talking about shutter lag, I think one needs to know what it means before discussing it. Shutter lag = The time it takes from pressing the button until the shutter operates. Shutter sound= The way the shutter sounds. Thank you. // Mats But from the sound when it happens for the shutter opening, the shutter lag time can be detected! If human feeling is not reliable enough, just measure it! Here is what I did a while ago:- RiceHigh's Pentax K100D Full Review Actually, Phil Askey do the same for recording the sounds for measuring the timings in his review. But unfortunately and I don't know why, he seems have never posted the mere shutter lag time alone, but only the total lag time, which is inclusive of AF time and shutter (system) time lag.

04-20-2007, 08:39 AM	#14
tinospiros Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 25	Shutter lag on the Pentax cameras is quite short, & not easily distinguishable from other brands. Mirror blackout on the other hand is relatively long compared to Nikon/Canon etc, & I think this is what is immediately noticeable, & why sound comes into the equation. Compare mirror blackout time to an old film camer like an ME Super & you'll know what I mean. My old Dynax 7 also had incredibly short mirror blackout compared to the K10 etc.

04-20-2007, 08:47 AM	#15
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Originally posted by tinospiros Shutter lag on the Pentax cameras is quite short, & not easily distinguishable from other brands. Mirror blackout on the other hand is relatively long compared to Nikon/Canon etc, & I think this is what is immediately noticeable, & why sound comes into the equation. Compare mirror blackout time to an old film camer like an ME Super & you'll know what I mean. My old Dynax 7 also had incredibly short mirror blackout compared to the K10 etc. If the camera has a long shutter lag, then the finder black out time will be longer. But the longer black out time can also be caused by a sluggish mirror return which is still undesirable anyway. Actually, only measurbation and comparison will tell the answers! :-)