Nikon and Pentax - Question on Flash systems comparison

VAV · 08-11-2009, 09:00 AM

I am trying to learn on and off-camera flash lighting and am working my way through using my Pentax flash system. I have read it in various forums many times that Nikon has a superior flash system - so I can better appreciate the strengths/ weaknesses of my Pentax system, could anyone comment on how the Nikon flash system compares to Pentax flash?

Thanks

*GLXLR* · 08-11-2009, 09:15 AM

There are quite a few Nikonians lurking around here (one is Javier). I am sure they might be able to help you out on the Nikon side of this question.

IMO, the Pentax lighting system is very good. Of course I mostly shoot in manual b/c any other mode will give me undesirable results (either over or under exposed).

*edl* · 08-11-2009, 09:29 AM

Well, the Nikon flash system is "better" than the Pentax system, but don't go switching systems just for that.

One significant advantage is that certain Nikon models (D40/50/70/70s) use an electronic shutter so your sync speed is not limited. I can get 1/2000th shutter speeds on a D40 so that's quite useful when it's bright outside or you want to really freeze motion (waterdrops). But this is not an intended advantage, just something strobists found and exploited. You can achieve the same results on almost any electronic shutter camera.

If you want to learn off-camera flash I'd suggest visiting Strobist - Lighting 101. Then purchase a basic off-camera lighting kit and start experimenting. Also purchase Fil Hunter - Light Science and Magic. I'll warn you though, it can put you to sleep.

On camera flash is fairly straightforward - just try not to fire it at your subject unless you want harsh shadows. Pentax and Nikon both have TTL, I think like everything else it's just learning how the Pentax TTL system works.

And, as with most things in photography, you'll learn much more about how lighting works when you do everything manually. Hope this helps.

*SuperAkuma* · 08-11-2009, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by edl

Well, the Nikon flash system is "better" than the Pentax system, but don't go switching systems just for that.

One significant advantage is that certain Nikon models (D40/50/70/70s) use an electronic shutter so your sync speed is not limited. I can get 1/2000th shutter speeds on a D40 so that's quite useful when it's bright outside or you want to really freeze motion (waterdrops). But this is not an intended advantage, just something strobists found and exploited. You can achieve the same results on almost any electronic shutter camera.

If you want to learn off-camera flash I'd suggest visiting Strobist - Lighting 101. Then purchase a basic off-camera lighting kit and start experimenting. Also purchase Fil Hunter - Light Science and Magic. I'll warn you though, it can put you to sleep.

On camera flash is fairly straightforward - just try not to fire it at your subject unless you want harsh shadows. Pentax and Nikon both have TTL, I think like everything else it's just learning how the Pentax TTL system works.

And, as with most things in photography, you'll learn much more about how lighting works when you do everything manually. Hope this helps.

I'll add to what you have to say.

Its hard to say which system is better. Technically, Nikon does have a better system. But if you have a Pentax camera, the Pentax flash WILL be better if you use the flash ON CAMERA.

But you said that you are using the flash off camera in manual mode. If you do that, the model with the most feature for the best price is the better one. It could be from Pentax, Nikon, canon, Vivitar, sunpak....ect.
To sum up edl link on strobist blog lighting 101, you want to look for a flash that has MANUAL power where you can drop the power down. Both of Pentax's flash AF540 and AF360 can do that.
Another useful feature that comes in handy is the built in pc sync plug or miniphone plug in the flash itself. This way you don't need to buy a flash hotshoe adapter for about $15 to use with your wireless trigger. Non of Pentax's flash has it.
Most if of Nikon's flash has it built in.

The nikon sb 24/25/26/28 are very popular because they can be found for about $100 used and it has all of those feature above for manual off camera use.

I highly suggest you spend some time on the link that edl posted. It is the bible of off camera flash.

VAV · 08-11-2009, 10:17 AM

GLXLR and edl, thank you for your replies.

edl - thanks for the very informative links and for the approach you suggested to learn lighting.

A more specific follow up question - I see that Pentax flashes use channels - 1 through 4 while Nikon uses groups - is there a difference between the two approaches?

On my Pentax K200D, I am using the pop up flash to trigger my off-camera master and slave flashes (two Pentax AF 360s which are on the same channel) - is it possible to control off-camera flashes with multiple channels (i.e. one set of flashes on channel 1, a second on channel 2 etc) and triggered by the same pop-up flash? I believe ( not sure) that Nikon CLS can control up to three separate groups in this way?

I am still some way off on the learning curve before I start using multiple groups as described above, but was exploring what is possible

Thanks,

VAV · 08-11-2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by SuperAkuma

I'll add to what you have to say.

Its hard to say which system is better. Technically, Nikon does have a better system. But if you have a Pentax camera, the Pentax flash WILL be better if you use the flash ON CAMERA.

But you said that you are using the flash off camera in manual mode. If you do that, the model with the most feature for the best price is the better one. It could be from Pentax, Nikon, canon, Vivitar, sunpak....ect.
To sum up edl link on strobist blog lighting 101, you want to look for a flash that has MANUAL power where you can drop the power down. Both of Pentax's flash AF540 and AF360 can do that.
Another useful feature that comes in handy is the built in pc sync plug or miniphone plug in the flash itself. This way you don't need to buy a flash hotshoe adapter for about $15 to use with your wireless trigger. Non of Pentax's flash has it.
Most if of Nikon's flash has it built in.

The nikon sb 24/25/26/28 are very popular because they can be found for about $100 used and it has all of those feature above for manual off camera use.

I highly suggest you spend some time on the link that edl posted. It is the bible of off camera flash.

Thanks SuperAkuma - I read your post just after I posted my reply to GXLR and edl - i will definitely be spending a lot of time on the Strobist link that edl has kindly provided.

I am slightly confused by your suggestion to use PC sync plug or flash hot shoe adapter - I am able to trigger my AF 360s wirelessly using the pop-up flash on my K200D - is your suggestion about a different way to do the same thing?

Thanks

aleonx3 · 08-11-2009, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by edl

One significant advantage is that certain Nikon models (D40/50/70/70s) use an electronic shutter so your sync speed is not limited. I can get 1/2000th shutter speeds on a D40 so that's quite useful when it's bright outside or you want to really freeze motion (waterdrops). But this is not an intended advantage, just something strobists found and exploited. You can achieve the same results on almost any electronic shutter camera.

I don't know much about Nikon flash system (may be it is better or may be not). I generally find the Pentax PTTL (not TTL) pretty good. With the built-in flash the highest sync speed is 1/180 (other camera makes may be higher ~1/250). So, it will be useless if you want to use the built-in flash as fill flash in broad daylight. However, both external flashes AFZ 360/540 support HSS, that is what you will need to get higher shutter speed.

*edl* · 08-11-2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by aleonx3

I don't know much about Nikon flash system (may be it is better or may be not). I generally find the Pentax PTTL (not TTL) pretty good. With the built-in flash the highest sync speed is 1/180 (other camera makes may be higher ~1/250). So, it will be useless if you want to use the built-in flash as fill flash in broad daylight. However, both external flashes AFZ 360/540 support HSS, that is what you will need to get higher shutter speed.

Nikon has the same thing with the SB-800/900, called "Auto FP HSS."

I'm probably unnecessarily confusing the topic by bringing up the Nikon D40/50/70/70s, which have a published sync speed "limit" of 1/500, but in reality have no sync speed limits because they use an electronic shutter for their fast shutter speeds. Just to be clear, this is completely different from turning on HSS. To my knowledge, all newer SLR's don't utilize electronic shutters and this benefit is restricted the Nikon models I mentioned above (and prosumer P&S's like the Panasonic LX3, Canon G9, G10).

I'm not familiar with Nikon's CLS system, so perhaps someone else can chime in here on its operation for the OP.

krypticide · 08-11-2009, 01:02 PM

Nikon allows you to set the lighting ratios of different groups of flashes from the commander flash on camera. That's the biggest advantage. This way you don't have to walk to each light stand, drop the light down, change it, put it back up, and walk back to your shooting area (or have your assistants do all that).

Of course, you pay through the nose for it with each flash, so if you're on a limited budget it won't help to be using a Nikon system.

VAV · 08-13-2009, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by krypticide

Nikon allows you to set the lighting ratios of different groups of flashes from the commander flash on camera. That's the biggest advantage. This way you don't have to walk to each light stand, drop the light down, change it, put it back up, and walk back to your shooting area (or have your assistants do all that).

Of course, you pay through the nose for it with each flash, so if you're on a limited budget it won't help to be using a Nikon system.

Thanks - that appears to be a very convenient feature if you need to adjust settings frequently.