One of the best comments I have seen, well done Bill

matix · 11-27-2007, 07:14 PM

Was directed to this over on DPR, on a Nikon thread.. read the second post in this page of the thread from Billy in Brooklyn, it is brilliant IMHO and a required read for all of us.

Phil

Comparisons with D300 [Page 8]: Canon EOS 40D/30D/20D/10D Forum: Digital Photography Review

**Peter Zack** · 11-27-2007, 07:28 PM

He hit the nail on the head. Great post and totally the whole point of owning a camera. I couldn't agree more!!
Thanks for posting the link. (I've tried to join that "club" and gave up after they rejected my 4th email address).

PaulAndAPentax · 11-27-2007, 07:36 PM

...and they kept on going....like hitting a bump in the road....

vievetrick · 11-27-2007, 07:37 PM

I literaly just read this over there. What a great post by Bill.

jfdavis58 · 11-27-2007, 07:43 PM

Poor Bill.

Nice try at restoring sanity.

Many of us have (had) a hard time assimilating certain types of information: "who's is bigger,better, etc" threads and certain folks who endlessly start such nonsense--not worth the time of day.

*LeoTaylor* · 11-27-2007, 09:29 PM

Phil, I'm glad you posted the link to Bill's well phrased post. I enjoyed it.

jgredline · 11-27-2007, 10:20 PM

What a wonderful well written post..Thanks for sharing..
Peter, to join dpr you will need a gmail e mail address..I know those work.

blende8 · 11-28-2007, 01:16 AM

I understand what that post is about and I fully agree with it. I have children, too.

But I cannot accept the last sentence:
"When you've understood that, you'll put the ruler down and stop measurbating."

No!
I love testing!
I am a scientist and I love to think about test set-ups, errors etc. ...
It's fun, just like photographing children. Each to his own ...
Pitiless testing reveals deficiencies and forces manufacturers to make things better.

Besides that we should never forget though that all cameras available today are already very good.

Chako · 11-28-2007, 04:19 AM

Did anyone notice that people just pretty much ignored that post. I found it hilarious that people kept measurebating right after that one lol.

Which tells you something about human nature and the "type" of people who get their rocks off arguing about brands and other technical stuff.

I am a science teacher, but you won't ever see me measurebate my photographic gear. I try to keep my hobbies separate from work. After all, isn't that what a hobby should be?

PaulAndAPentax · 11-28-2007, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by Chako

Did anyone notice that people just pretty much ignored that post. I found it hilarious that people kept measurebating right after that one lol.

Which tells you something about human nature and the "type" of people who get their rocks off arguing about brands and other technical stuff.

I am a science teacher, but you won't ever see me measurebate my photographic gear. I try to keep my hobbies separate from work. After all, isn't that what a hobby should be?

Exactly what I stated in my post above... ".....and they kept on going....like hitting a bump in the road....

" We certainly have much better stuff now then 10 years ago...and cheaper!

Lowell Goudge · 11-28-2007, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by blende8

I understand what that post is about and I fully agree with it. I have children, too.

But I cannot accept the last sentence:
"When you've understood that, you'll put the ruler down and stop measurbating."

No!
I love testing!
I am a scientist and I love to think about test set-ups, errors etc. ...
It's fun, just like photographing children. Each to his own ...
Pitiless testing reveals deficiencies and forces manufacturers to make things better.

Besides that we should never forget though that all cameras available today are already very good.

The question is not performing pitiless testing, the question is what do you do with the results.

- I have performed testing for exposure accuracy for all my lenses, and made up curves, Some of these results have been posted as well as the test method
- I and others have analyzed the impact of changing contrast and saturation by doing tests,
- I have tested the interaction of Auto ISO and program modes,
- I have tested the interaction between auto ISO and flash
All of this is just to understand how the camera is programmed, and how to best set the camera for specific situations.

This is called knowing your equipment.

Where I draw the line is using what ever results to specifically bash the equipment. What you see in each set of tests, and unfortunately there is no standard, even within photo magazines, as to the scope of tests, and adjustments, is the individual camera designer's perception of what the public wants.

This is especially true of JPEG settings. While there is an answer to that. Either learn the equipment and set it up as you like, or shoot raw.

Gruoso · 11-28-2007, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Chako

Did anyone notice that people just pretty much ignored that post. I found it hilarious that people kept measurebating right after that one lol.

I found it hilarious at the beginning and then I realize how scary it was that reaction. I cannot believe the lack of sense of reality of some people. First thing that I do when I read a post like that is to evaluate myself. If I feel clean I continue but I find myself reflected in an image that I dont like I try to do my best to correct that. Those guys had in front of their faces one of the best definitions on what photography is about and still they keep going to the brand bashing.

Kaimarx · 11-28-2007, 07:01 AM

Bill from Brooklyn on high iso performance, wrote:

"The pixel peepers who engage is this senseless time-waster probably print very little and measure the "quality" of their photos not by the impact it has on its viewer, but rather by how technically correct the image is and how little noise is or isn't apparent."

Excellent post, well said. Highly applicable to every other facet of modern photography. I guess he must have hit alot of raw nerves considering the endless rants of justification that soon followed lol. You can lead a horse to water....

stewart_photo · 11-28-2007, 07:05 AM

I think it's unfair to compare that dpreview.com discussion to all debates or disagreements about technology, and unfair to apply Billy's comments to all photographers. For a large number of photographers, photography is more than just some kid kissing a mirror (and all that entails). In other words, that is not what photography is all about to all photographers.

My photography, as an example, is about income, feeding my family, while doing something I like. To ensure that income continues, I must be equally aware of the technical, creative, and emotional aspects of photography. Others simply enjoy discussing the technology. And I'm sure others have still other reasons for participating in those debates.

If you don't like those debates, fine. Ignore them. But, in the end, it's simply not very nice to look down your nose at those choosing otherwise.

stewart

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**Peter Zack** · 11-28-2007, 07:27 AM

I don't disagree with you Stewart. We all have to know the strengths and weaknesses of the equipment. I think all of us periodically pixel peep a new lens when it is added to the kit. That is important to understand the lens or the camera and what you can do with it.

I have a feeling that what he's commenting on more, is the endless trashing of one model over another, often by people that haven't used or own the gear they are trashing.

The objective threads and comments on a piece of equipment, is helpful to us all. I've learned a lot from others posting thier uses for and thoughts on a particular lens, piece of equipment or better way to shoot with the camera.