Pentax Galleries Question

[benjikan]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know who is responsible for choices made on the Pentax Galleries site. I understand that subscribers vote which I have done on occasion, but who are on the board of judges and or art directors and what are their credentials? I will explain shortly why I am asking.

Thanks
Ben

[jmdeegan]

i am curious to see where this one goes....

also wish there was a way to know what point of the process your submission was at-ie, did it pass peer review or no....

[benjikan]

Originally Posted by jmdeegan

i am curious to see where this one goes....

also wish there was a way to know what point of the process your submission was at-ie, did it pass peer review or no....

What I am about to say here might be considered arrogant and understandably so, but...I wanted to see what might happen if I submitted images that were published in some of the most prestigious "Trendy" press magazines in the world and or are on exhibit at either the Cannes Festival of Fashion Photography, exhibited at Lumas Galleries world wide and being sold with the likes of Helmut Newton and Horst P. Horst.

Now, I know that Pentax have an issue or issues with me regarding allegations that I broke with some of my NDA commitments during the pre-K20D launch. I also know, that the complaints filed originated with Popular Photography and Mr. Howard and the complaint was forwarded from Ned Bunnel to Pentax Europe. Pentax and I were already having issues at that time, but this complaint is what broke the proverbial camel's back. I have already had some feedback from the Gallery Administrators and it has not been good. Twelve of my 24 submitted images were rejected and the other twelve are on hold waiting on a response. Those that were rejected are part of my Lumas Gallery Expo. If all of my images are rejected...

We shall see.

PS...That is why I asked about credentials of the judges. I have been on several panels in the past as a judge and it will be interesting to say the least, what the outcome will be. No sour grapes here, just politics.

Ben

[Damn Brit]

You seem to be on a fishing trip here Ben.
Will you post the pictures that got rejected on here?
Gary

[benjikan]

Originally Posted by Damn Brit

You seem to be on a fishing trip here Ben.
Will you post the pictures that got rejected on here?
Gary

I love fish...Just go to Lumas Galleries under Fine Artists.

If you go to my web site the images rejected are contained within. All of the images on my site are published works.

Ben

[roentarre]

I would love to know who the judges are. Kind of interesting that this is not even clear to most of the users.

[TaoMaas]

Originally Posted by benjikan

Twelve of my 24 submitted images were rejected and the other twelve are on hold waiting on a response. Those that were rejected are part of my Lumas Gallery Expo. If all of my images are rejected...

It may not be politics at all, Ben. The PPG is just kinda wacky these days. I've had published images rejected quickly, too, while a grab-shot that I tossed in on a whim got accepted. Go figure.

[jmdeegan]

it does bring the question though-how much of it is "we don't want/need that picture", and how much of it is "i know whose picture that is, we don't want his work". at least in this specific case.

I mean, whenever I rate images, what I find appealing might not be what others do. Images which are amazing to me may seem pedestrian to others, and never make the cut.

I've submitted a few-none of mine are works of art, but I am proud of them. The latest one I submitted, I have hopes for, but it is one which I am really proud of, and last time I posted it on the boards here, at least I don't think it took too much negative criticism if at all.

But the "approved artist" voting process is more of a filter before it hits the true panel, I guess. and depending on how many of those approved folks vote, their moods and their tastes, your "amazing" image could die quickly.

would be nice to see statistics, including how your images did-ie, it was voted on 50 times, 30 down 20 up and thats enough to not make the cut, or it made it past round one but was rejected by the master panel. And at that level, it would be really top notch to even get a snippet of why it didn't fly (too ordinary, too similar to existing material, whatever), instead of just a blind rejection. I mean, criticism is easy but not productive. Constructive criticism would be far more useful.

I think that mysterious process is why a lot of folks on here, stopped submitting

[straightshooter]

In looking through the PPG, one thing I noticed in the "Premiere" collection is that a few of the same names tend to appear over and over again. Now some of their work is EXCELLENT but some of it doesn't even belong in the regular categories, much less a premiere collection. I don't know who judges these either, other than the voters, but one thing I've found with other photography groups is that they tend to eventually become a glorification society for a few people. Years ago when I belonged to the Jacksonville Camera Club, there was one person who could submit an out of focus, accidental shot into a contest and everyone would rave over it because she took the picture. Maybe the Pentax Gallery is becoming that? The only other thing I can think of Ben is that maybe they were worried about copyright? But didn't you say that you retained the copyright on all your images?

It is interesting though that the photos you submitted have been published and are for sale in a gallery while one of the voting criteria is, "Can you see this image in a traditional photo gallery or printed publication?"

CW

[navcom]

I've had the same issues with the PPG. I'm just never sure whether a picture is "worthy" or not. One's that you think are fantastic get rejected and those you put out for fun thinking they stink get accepted.

I know that when you vote on the photos, it's amazing what people submit. Some are just simple snapshots of a party or a get together! I once saw a series of "touristy" photos taken during a family's trip to Chicago! Just snapshots of their kids at the museum, the hotel, the restaurant. Geez! I think they missed the point of a *gallery*.

More likely the reason is because we are talking about art. Art is subjective. It's not like a sport where you put a ball through a goal and points are kept so it's obvious how to succeed. That's why I think art contests are tough. I love art to death! But judging one work over another is just a fight waiting to happen. It's just too easy for "corruption" to enter the picture because the outcome is based on a judges feelings or what the judge feels is art.

...it's like judging figure skating (which is not a sport to me ).

Of course, a magazine judges their cover entries based on their commercial needs, not so much based on their feelings.

I guess your pictures just aren't art, Ben!

[falconeye]

Ben,

you shoudn't have done this. It isn't your level. The PPG can do whatever they want and it isn't your business to question them if it is about accepting your own pictures. The PPG is no contest. And I am pretty sure that PPG is "politics free"

What we can do, however, is to question the overall quality of images accepted by PPG. In this respect, though, I have nothing to complain about.

[Delgado]

Originally Posted by benjikan

Now, I know that Pentax have an issue or issues with me regarding allegations that I broke with some of my NDA commitments during the pre-K20D launch. I also know, that the complaints filed originated with Popular Photography and Mr. Howard and the complaint was forwarded from Ned Bunnel to Pentax Europe. Pentax and I were already having issues at that time, but this complaint is what broke the proverbial camel's back. I have already had some feedback from the Gallery Administrators and it has not been good. Twelve of my 24 submitted images were rejected and the other twelve are on hold waiting on a response. Those that were rejected are part of my Lumas Gallery Expo. If all of my images are rejected...

We shall see.

Ben

This might just be a manifestation of the old prejudice against commercial work. There are well-meaning people who regard it as tainted. I listened with (I thought) admirable politeness once to a man who told me that he had "never made so much as a bean" out of any of his photographs, implying in a pious backhanded sort of way that somehow his photgraphy was purer than mine. On occasion I will rise to that bait, but its a rare thing now. Who really cares? You don't need a gallery's approval, however earnest and well-meaning it may be. If you dwell on the irrational basis on which many people make their emotional decisions you will be barking mad in a fortnight or less. Many good men have gone to Bedlam down that path.

[J.Scott]

The PPG is deeply flawed. The criteria for acceptance is ambiguous and the judges and their judging process unknown. Why bother with it? I am sure there are many more prestigious galleries on the web and elsewhere that have a lot more credibility than this phony one. What seems like the Holy Grail often ends up looking like a crock of sh!t!

[roentarre]

Maybe it is the nephews and distant relatives of the judges getting accepted in the premiere section of the gallery...

[roentarre]

or lovers, boyfriends or girlfriends...