Always check the law

flyer · 03-26-2009, 06:12 PM

A short while ago, I had some of my lenses stolen. I didn't mention it before because they were insured, and we all have our problems to deal with. While waiting for the insurance company to pay for my loss, I went to my regular dealer to have a quote on replacement. When I got paid by the insurance company, I went back to the store and ordered the lenses, and paid cash, even though some lenses were back order. The day after, the shop owner called me back and told me there was a huge increase in prices on April 1st, and some of the lenses would come in only after. He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price. I inquired with Québec's Consumer Protection Office, and they told me a bill of sale was a binding contract between the buyer and the seller, and the parties can't unilaterally change it. When I called back the dealer to let him know that I wanted the lens and he couldn't change anything to the contract, he told me he'd ordered the lens, but after that, I was "personna non grata" in his store.

mutedphotos · 03-26-2009, 06:26 PM

Pity he doesn't want you back, his loss. Good thinking calling the CPO. I'm surprised he'd try to pull one over (and subsequently ban when he failed) on a regular customer.

*X Man* · 03-26-2009, 06:44 PM

You do realize he's making a profit on this transaction, right? I can't repeat here what I would have told him. Lets just say it involves doing something physically impossible to oneself . In short, I'd call the whole thing off and take my business to someplace who values me as a customer.

Regards,
Mike

PS Here's another real good reason not to "pay cash".

Originally Posted by flyer

... he told me he'd ordered the lens, but after that, I was "personna non grata" in his store.

MRRiley · 03-26-2009, 07:03 PM

What a twit (the store owner)... Doesn't sound like a reputable business to deal with anyway.

jnorth · 03-27-2009, 12:57 AM

Don't know 'bout the photog suppliers he had to deal with but I know in other businesses his supplier would have honoured the pre 4/1 pricing. Sounds to me like you'd want to let him know that you will be letting others know of his stance, and then write a letter to the editor. Unless you are going there for used stuff you can probably find what you're after from somebody that wants your business.

flyer · 03-27-2009, 03:11 AM

Actually, he is quite reputable, and I've been dealing with him for a while, that's why I'm surprised by his attitude. He might incur a loss right now, be he could recover some of it (if not all) in the long run. On the other hand, maybe he tried to increase his profit, taking advantage of the price increase to come and got ticked off because I didn't "fold". Whatever is going on, he told me not to come back after the transaction was completed. And the second closest Pentax dealer is about an hour's drive away. Maybe his wife didn't give him his "candy" the previous night...

*Tom S.* · 03-27-2009, 06:08 AM

I wonder if you had contacted your insurance company and explained the situation if they would have authorized the additional funds.

MRRiley · 03-27-2009, 06:09 AM

I'd tell him I'd rather drive an hour than deal with him again and then explain to the owner of your new store why he is getting your business.

Whatcha wanna bet he changes his tune when you go to pick up your lenses?

*Wheatfield* · 03-27-2009, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by flyer

Actually, he is quite reputable, and I've been dealing with him for a while, that's why I'm surprised by his attitude. He might incur a loss right now, be he could recover some of it (if not all) in the long run. On the other hand, maybe he tried to increase his profit, taking advantage of the price increase to come and got ticked off because I didn't "fold". Whatever is going on, he told me not to come back after the transaction was completed. And the second closest Pentax dealer is about an hour's drive away. Maybe his wife didn't give him his "candy" the previous night...

I'd definitely be in touch with PCI about it. They need to know what their dealers are doing when it involves bad sales practices.

stewart_photo · 03-27-2009, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by flyer

(snip) ordered the lenses, and paid cash, even though some lenses were back order. The day after, the shop owner called me back and told me there was a huge increase in prices on April 1st, and some of the lenses would come in only after. He then asked me if I wanted to cancel those lenses or pay the difference in price. I inquired with Québec's Consumer Protection Office, and they told me a bill of sale was a binding contract between the buyer and the seller, and the parties can't unilaterally change it. When I called back the dealer to let him know that I wanted the lens and he couldn't change anything to the contract, he told me he'd ordered the lens, but after that, I was "personna non grata" in his store.

Put yourself in the dealer's shoes for a moment. He's there to do a business (to feed his family), not run a charity by working for little or no money. He took your business fully expecting a reasonable customer to be a bit more understanding when things happen beyond his control. Whatever the case, he certainly didn't expect you to contact a Consumer Protection Office (like he's somehow ripping you off, when you're actually taking advantage of him instead) and then have contract law quoted to him.

In that dealer's shoes, my response would be exactly the same. I'd deliver your lenses, losing money out of my own pockets (in profits and perhaps more), but I'd certainly be very unhappy about it.

stewart

*X Man* · 03-27-2009, 06:12 PM

The dealer has no right to modify a contract, after the fact without the consent of both parties. The dealer is clearly completely out of line in a very, very competitive business climate.

The dealer is acting the fool here by being "penny wise, pound foolish". Losing a good customer in the process who apparently spends quite a bit of coin on his hobby. The dealer is the one who's taking food off of his own table I'm afraid.

Regards,
Mike

Originally Posted by stewart_photo

Put yourself in the dealer's shoes for a moment. He's there to do a business (to feed his family), not run a charity by working for little or no money. He took your business fully expecting a reasonable customer to be a bit more understanding when things happen beyond his control. Whatever the case, he certainly didn't expect you to contact a Consumer Protection Office (like he's somehow ripping you off, when you're actually taking advantage of him instead) and then have contract law quoted to him.

In that dealer's shoes, my response would be exactly the same. I'd deliver your lenses, losing money out of my own pockets (in profits and perhaps more), but I'd certainly be very unhappy about it.

stewart

*Wheatfield* · 03-27-2009, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by stewart_photo

Put yourself in the dealer's shoes for a moment. He's there to do a business (to feed his family), not run a charity by working for little or no money. He took your business fully expecting a reasonable customer to be a bit more understanding when things happen beyond his control. Whatever the case, he certainly didn't expect you to contact a Consumer Protection Office (like he's somehow ripping you off, when you're actually taking advantage of him instead) and then have contract law quoted to him.

In that dealer's shoes, my response would be exactly the same. I'd deliver your lenses, losing money out of my own pockets (in profits and perhaps more), but I'd certainly be very unhappy about it.

stewart

From my retailing days, I believe that Pentax themselves is locked into the price for the product that was paid for, with the dealer net pricing reflecting the price that was in place the day the lens was paid for. Some of this presumes that the dealer was diligent and placed the order in a timely fashion.
Stewart, after all your postings about how the laws must be obeyed (trespassing at train stations, computer hacking, etc), I'm shocked that you would appear to be taking he side of someone who is tryng to get around obeying the law.

*davef* · 03-27-2009, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by stewart_photo

Put yourself in the dealer's shoes for a moment. He's there to do a business (to feed his family), not run a charity by working for little or no money. He took your business fully expecting a reasonable customer to be a bit more understanding when things happen beyond his control. Whatever the case, he certainly didn't expect you to contact a Consumer Protection Office (like he's somehow ripping you off, when you're actually taking advantage of him instead) and then have contract law quoted to him.

In that dealer's shoes, my response would be exactly the same. I'd deliver your lenses, losing money out of my own pockets (in profits and perhaps more), but I'd certainly be very unhappy about it.

stewart

I can't agree with your conclusion. A dealer following reasonable business practices would have placed the order once payment was received for the lenses. That should have protected both parties. The behaviour noted seems to indicate that the dealer was attempting to score a windfall on the price increase or failed to order the lenses once paid. Dave

flyer · 03-27-2009, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by stewart_photo

Put yourself in the dealer's shoes for a moment. He's there to do a business (to feed his family), not run a charity by working for little or no money. He took your business fully expecting a reasonable customer to be a bit more understanding when things happen beyond his control. Whatever the case, he certainly didn't expect you to contact a Consumer Protection Office (like he's somehow ripping you off, when you're actually taking advantage of him instead) and then have contract law quoted to him.

In that dealer's shoes, my response would be exactly the same. I'd deliver your lenses, losing money out of my own pockets (in profits and perhaps more), but I'd certainly be very unhappy about it.

stewart

Stewart,

I had a quote made on the 7th of March for those lenses, and the quote was valid till the 7th of July. Before giving me the quote, he checked the prices with Pentax. I went back on the 20th to order the lenses, and then he asked for a substantial account due to the large order involved. I told him I was paying the whole thing to make sure there wouldn't be any problems, and he said OK. Two days later, he calls me and tells me some B.O. items would be delivered only after the first of April, and would I want to pay the difference or cancel.

At that point, I checked the consumer laws to know my rights. Note that I didn't put pressure on him, didn't argue and didn't try to bring the price down. Note also that I co-own a business and my suppliers bill me for the price AT THE TIME OF THE ORDER, even if the items are B.O.

The bill of sale in Québec is a binding contract, as I'm sure it is in quite a few other places, and I complied with my part, so he must comply with his part of it. I'm pretty sure he is trying to wring some more money out of the deal to increase his profit, not because he is loosing money. Otherwise, it would be to easy for any dealers of any goods to call back their customer after a purchase and say: hey guys, there was a sudden price increase and you have to spit up more cash. Most people wouldn't even know where to look to check if it is true. And, as a business man, if I goof up on a quote and undercharge, it's my mistake, not the customer, so I swallow my pride (and my loss) and do the job for the agreed upon price. When you are in business, most of the time, you win, but sometime, you loose.

And, I don't see a company like Pentax loosing their name over an order that's been place before a price increase, and charging the increase because the items ordered are B.O.

I bought in good faith, so he should deal in good faith.

*reeftool* · 03-27-2009, 09:07 PM

Camera stores are disappearing faster than dandelion seeds in a windstorm. They complain that internet sales and large mail order warehouses are running them out of business. I prefer to buy local and would rather buy my gear at a store but I won't deal with a store that rips people off. Sounds to me like he was pulling a fast one on you. Take your business elseware.