How much does your tripod leg vibrate?

song_hm · 07-16-2009, 05:14 PM

I read with interest Stevebrot's review of the Giottos MT9370. He mentioned:

Originally Posted by stevebrot

[B]While it is pretty stable at full extension, there is still a tendency to vibrate. Collapsing the final leg sections allows for a significant increase in stability with little tendency to vibrate.

I was at Adorama last week and I put a number of Carbon fiber display units to a vibration test. I fully extended the legs and gave it a simple finger tap (like knocking on a wooden door).

I found that all but the Flashpoint 1428 vibrates visibly, and none stop vibrating faster than the 1428. My guess is that the 1428 have a largest tube diameter 37mm, while all the other are either 28mm or 31mm.

Does your carbon fiber vibrate like this? Is it an issue?

*hwblanks* · 07-16-2009, 08:14 PM

I'm curious--which other tripod legs did you test? Were there any Gitzos among them?

Thanks!
Heather

*jem* · 07-16-2009, 08:29 PM

Just checked my Bogen 3021 (older manfrotto 055), Giottos MT 9371 and Gitzo GT5541LS. They all vibrate to some degree though the Gitzo is so minimal I had not noticed untill I was looking for it. By the way, a rubber bungee wrapped around the legs will pretty much eliminate that type of vibration.

song_hm · 07-16-2009, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by hwblanks

I'm curious--which other tripod legs did you test? Were there any Gitzos among them?

Definitely Manfrottos, Giottos, Flashpoints, and Induro. Don't remember giving the Gitzo the finger tap test.

song_hm · 07-16-2009, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by jem

Just checked my Bogen 3021 (older manfrotto 055), Giottos MT 9371 and Gitzo GT5541LS. They all vibrate to some degree though the Gitzo is so minimal I had not noticed untill I was looking for it. By the way, a rubber bungee wrapped around the legs will pretty much eliminate that type of vibration.

Do you think the Gitzo vibrates less because of larger leg diameter?

Does your Bogen/Giottos tends to produce less in focus pictures than the Gitzo due to vibration?

*jem* · 07-16-2009, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by song_hm

Do you think the Gitzo vibrates less because of larger leg diameter?

The larger diameter is one factor. Both the Bogen & Giottos being constructed of aluminum is another factor. I placed them on a tile floor for my test because carpet dampened the vibration to a great degree. I could barely detect any vibration on the carpet. By the way I have a QuickSet at work with nearly 3" diameter legs that I can still see vibration even in lab conditions. Note that one of the lenses I use has approximately a 1/10th of a degree FOV (with our focal plane) so I can see lens motion caused by traffic vibration. It can be quite challenging to do measurements.

Originally Posted by song_hm

Does your Bogen/Giottos tends to produce less in focus pictures than the Gitzo due to vibration?

Sure - if I don't compensate for their limitations. There are a number of things I do to dampen vibration depending upon the conditions in which I'm shooting. Weight, bungee cords, extra bracing, careful selection of location, wind shielding and floor surface, my own body, etc. - lots of things. And obviously the better tripod helps a lot. The Gitzo is primarily for my long lenses whereas the Bogen & Giottos are generally good for most everything else though I am still tweaking my macro setup.

**Marc Langille** · 07-16-2009, 09:32 PM

Which brings up an entirely different but very important point Jem!

General comment: long lenses, even with excellent support systems, are subject to this vibration as you rightly indicated. That's where the difference in sharper images are dependent on your long lens technique, even with top shelf support gear. I've come away with keepers at such low shutter speeds that I was frankly surprised at the clarity/sharpness.

Real world situation: even inadequate support systems are OK in a pinch, but it's much harder to regularly get crisp shots and move the lens smoothly. Dampening the setup with both hands and your face can overcome a lot of those issues, although I would not want to stick with that scenario for very long!!

song_hm · 07-16-2009, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by jem

There are a number of things I do to dampen vibration ... bungee cords ...

How do you use the bungee cord? Can you post a picture?

Originally Posted by jem

The Gitzo is primarily for my long lenses whereas the Bogen & Giottos are generally good for most everything else though I am still tweaking my macro setup.

How long a lens would begin to require the Gitzo? SMC-M 200/f4? Or Vivitar S1 70-200? DA 50-135?

Originally Posted by Marc Langille

long lenses, even with excellent support systems, are subject to this vibration as you rightly indicated. That's where the difference in sharper images are dependent on your long lens technique, even with top shelf support gear. I've come away with keepers at such low shutter speeds that I was frankly surprised at the clarity/sharpness.

Ok, spill the beans Marc. What are your good long lens technique?

Originally Posted by Marc Langille

Dampening the setup with both hands and your face can overcome a lot of those issues, although I would not want to stick with that scenario for very long!!

Especially in the middle of winter :-)

*jem* · 07-16-2009, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by song_hm

How do you use the bungee cord? Can you post a picture?

I wrap it horizontally around the middle or upper joints of all three legs of the tripod in question. I'll try and post a photo tomorrow.

Originally Posted by song_hm

How long a lens would begin to require the Gitzo? SMC-M 200/f4? Or Vivitar S1 70-200? DA 50-135?

That tripod was bought specifically for my F*600 f4 pictured here. It is capable of holding the considerable weight comfortably with some (believable) margin. A tripod like this is probably overkill for a much lighter setup. By the way, as a rule I like a factor of 2 or more in weight handling versus actual weight load. Also, I generally don't believe the manufacturers' specs.

I think they are generally "optimistic".

**Marc Langille** · 07-17-2009, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by song_hm

How do you use the bungee cord? Can you post a picture?

How long a lens would begin to require the Gitzo? SMC-M 200/f4? Or Vivitar S1 70-200? DA 50-135?

Ok, spill the beans Marc. What are your good long lens technique?

John, that's a good idea = picture please. Of course that setup would make sense, assuming the cord is stout and tensioned well.

Long lens technique... hmmm... I am going to do it at the workshop...

Are you coming?

Banter aside: at some point I'll do an article or writeup on the various ways to dampen vibrations for long lens shooting. I had plenty of practice with a much lighter 500mm on very windy days - not fun. It's a 7lb lens vs. ~15 pounds for the Pentax 600/4 lenses. Thus your control and technique over the setup is often critical, especially in adverse conditions - it will make the difference in obtaining the sharpest image possible.

Of course, John's 600/4 + Gitzo+ MKII setup would require hurricane force winds to get a little resonance happening...

just saying...

Originally Posted by song_hm

Especially in the middle of winter :-)

Agreed...

*jem* · 07-17-2009, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Marc Langille

John, that's a good idea = picture please. Of course that setup would make sense, assuming the cord is stout and tensioned well.

Will do!

Originally Posted by Marc Langille

Of course, John's 600/4 + Gitzo+ MKII setup would require hurricane force winds to get a little resonance happening... just saying...

Well I do live on the Gulf Coast...

*jem* · 07-17-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by song_hm

How do you use the bungee cord? Can you post a picture?

Originally Posted by Marc Langille

John, that's a good idea = picture please. Of course that setup would make sense, assuming the cord is stout and tensioned well.

Here you go guys! Note that the bungee can't be too tight or it will pull the legs together. I use one (or more) of those Velcro computer straps to adjust the tension on the bungee so that it is not too tight. The main idea here is to dampen vibration or other resonances in the legs from wind, traffic, large herds of big footed tourists, etc. A plus is that it will fix the dead weight (gear bag) in place and the bag will dampen bungee cord vibrations. Yes, they can vibrate too. I’ll use this setup with spiked feet if the surface I’m on is suitable - small sand bags if not.

By the way Marc, the last photo in particular is for you. Thanks again for driving my LBA!