Tungsten WB with daylight???

**FuzzyOne** · 01-06-2009, 07:28 AM

I tried a search and couldn't find the answer. This has happened to me several times and I don't know how to handle it. If I take a picture which is primarily lit by tungsten lights and I set my white balance to tungsten, any natural light (such as window light) shows blue.

I have posted an example which shows what I mean. See the blue light from the window? Well, I don't like that

What can I do differently?

Thanks....

Exif:
Focal length:28 mm
Focal length (35mm):42 mm
Exposure:1/40 at f/2
Flash:Not fired, compulsory mode
Exposure bias:+1/3 EV
Exposure mode:Manual
Exposure prog.:Aperture priority
ISO speed:ISO 400
Metering mode:Center-weighted average

MrApollinax · 01-06-2009, 07:30 AM

What happens if you turn off AWB and manually set the WB using the existing lighting?

jeffkrol · 01-06-2009, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by FuzzyOne

I tried a search and couldn't find the answer. This has happened to me several times and I don't know how to handle it. If I take a picture which is primarily lit by tungsten lights and I set my white balance to tungsten, any natural light (such as window light) shows blue.

I have posted an example which shows what I mean. See the blue light from the window? Well, I don't like that

What can I do differently?

Thanks....

Exif:
Focal length:28 mm
Focal length (35mm):42 mm
Exposure:1/40 at f/2
Flash:Not fired, compulsory mode
Exposure bias:+1/3 EV
Exposure mode:Manual
Exposure prog.:Aperture priority
ISO speed:ISO 400
Metering mode:Center-weighted average

Out of the box, probably not much. Tungsten light is like 2500K, daylight is 9000-12000. Correct for one, get a tint in the other.
f you were doing this professionally, you'd probably put tungsten spots to shine though the window.
You can correct in post process w/ masking ect. but a PIA.

**FuzzyOne** · 01-06-2009, 07:36 AM

The WB was set to tungsten, not AWB. I try to avoid AWB and select what the primary lighting is. I think the colors are accurate with the exception of the window light.

**FuzzyOne** · 01-06-2009, 07:42 AM

Another example:

Wheatfield · 01-06-2009, 07:44 AM

Shoot with a daylight WB and put up with the colour of the photo being yellow like the tungsten light.
Put a bastard amber filter on your windows.
Turn off the lights and shoot with available light.
Don't shoot in tungsten light with a window showing in the picture.
Do some hinky Photoshop magic.

Daylight and tungsten are ( as you've shown) are very far apart for colour temperature. In fact your picture is a great visual lesson for mixed lighting.
Sadly, it's pretty much the nature of the beast, or at least the physics of the situation.
In this case, the colours are perfectly natural, given that you have chosen to give importance to the tungsten light rather than the daylight. Had you given importance to the window light (daylight WB) the window and tungsten illuminated areas would both be the right colour, with the image reflecting the very far from daylight colour of the tungsten lights as yellow, which is, in reality, correct.

jeffkrol · 01-06-2009, 08:06 AM

BTW: Tungsten balanced film will do the same thing w/ daylight. Awful blue-green mess if no tungsten light in the picture...
Also if you switch over to compact flourescents or LED the problem is lessened.. Easier then changing the color of the sun

Of course nobody made an LED wax candle.... with the candle shot it would have been better to just use AWB and adjust a bit in post.

alohadave · 01-06-2009, 08:50 AM

You could turn off the lights in the kitchen and use a flash bounced off the ceiling. Flashes are balanced for daylight/sunlight color temperature, so you wouldn't have a color balance problem, and bouncing off the ceiling will give you similar light to what the overhead lights are already providing.

tybeck · 01-06-2009, 11:04 AM

You could put filter gels on all of your windows.

Gooshin · 01-06-2009, 11:12 AM

you can just use the colour sliders to saturate/tint the blue colours to your liking...

ofcourse you're ****ed if you have a large amount of blue in the scene

then again if you're really set on getting the picture right you can use selective layering through photoshop (or other) to only change the tones in a specific area

**Canada_Rockies** · 01-06-2009, 02:16 PM

We humans are more tolerant of images that show reddish tints than to excess blue. In your favourite editing software try changing the colour balance more to the tungsten side.

**FuzzyOne** · 01-07-2009, 09:05 AM

Thanks for the replies. I kind of figured there was no easy answer. Next time I might try the bracket feature with white balance set to daylight and tungsten and then fix it in PS through layers.

emalvick · 01-07-2009, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by FuzzyOne

Thanks for the replies. I kind of figured there was no easy answer. Next time I might try the bracket feature with white balance set to daylight and tungsten and then fix it in PS through layers.

If you shot it in RAW you could develop once for daylight and once for tungsten white balance saving you from having to bracket for white balance.

egordon99 · 01-07-2009, 12:35 PM

That's because the outside ISN'T lit by tunsgten lighting

Not much you can do, except perhaps gel the window, OR if you use a hot-shoe flash, those are usually daylight balanced so the temperatures would match.

Aaron1971 · 01-07-2009, 01:23 PM

I think the candle photo looks pretty cool with the lighting the way it is. Whet kind of light bulb is tungsten? I usually leave my setting on AWB.

01-06-2009, 07:28 AM	#1
FuzzyOne Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 90	Tungsten WB with daylight??? I tried a search and couldn't find the answer. This has happened to me several times and I don't know how to handle it. If I take a picture which is primarily lit by tungsten lights and I set my white balance to tungsten, any natural light (such as window light) shows blue. I have posted an example which shows what I mean. See the blue light from the window? Well, I don't like that What can I do differently? Thanks.... Exif: Focal length:28 mm Focal length (35mm):42 mm Exposure:1/40 at f/2 Flash:Not fired, compulsory mode Exposure bias:+1/3 EV Exposure mode:Manual Exposure prog.:Aperture priority ISO speed:ISO 400 Metering mode:Center-weighted average

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01-06-2009, 07:30 AM	#2
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	What happens if you turn off AWB and manually set the WB using the existing lighting?

01-06-2009, 07:34 AM	#3
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by FuzzyOne I tried a search and couldn't find the answer. This has happened to me several times and I don't know how to handle it. If I take a picture which is primarily lit by tungsten lights and I set my white balance to tungsten, any natural light (such as window light) shows blue. I have posted an example which shows what I mean. See the blue light from the window? Well, I don't like that What can I do differently? Thanks.... Exif: Focal length:28 mm Focal length (35mm):42 mm Exposure:1/40 at f/2 Flash:Not fired, compulsory mode Exposure bias:+1/3 EV Exposure mode:Manual Exposure prog.:Aperture priority ISO speed:ISO 400 Metering mode:Center-weighted average Out of the box, probably not much. Tungsten light is like 2500K, daylight is 9000-12000. Correct for one, get a tint in the other. f you were doing this professionally, you'd probably put tungsten spots to shine though the window. You can correct in post process w/ masking ect. but a PIA.

01-06-2009, 07:36 AM	#4
FuzzyOne Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 90 Original Poster	The WB was set to tungsten, not AWB. I try to avoid AWB and select what the primary lighting is. I think the colors are accurate with the exception of the window light.

01-06-2009, 07:42 AM	#5
FuzzyOne Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 90 Original Poster	Another example:

01-06-2009, 07:44 AM	#6
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Shoot with a daylight WB and put up with the colour of the photo being yellow like the tungsten light. Put a bastard amber filter on your windows. Turn off the lights and shoot with available light. Don't shoot in tungsten light with a window showing in the picture. Do some hinky Photoshop magic. Daylight and tungsten are ( as you've shown) are very far apart for colour temperature. In fact your picture is a great visual lesson for mixed lighting. Sadly, it's pretty much the nature of the beast, or at least the physics of the situation. In this case, the colours are perfectly natural, given that you have chosen to give importance to the tungsten light rather than the daylight. Had you given importance to the window light (daylight WB) the window and tungsten illuminated areas would both be the right colour, with the image reflecting the very far from daylight colour of the tungsten lights as yellow, which is, in reality, correct.

01-06-2009, 08:06 AM	#7
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	BTW: Tungsten balanced film will do the same thing w/ daylight. Awful blue-green mess if no tungsten light in the picture... Also if you switch over to compact flourescents or LED the problem is lessened.. Easier then changing the color of the sun Of course nobody made an LED wax candle.... with the candle shot it would have been better to just use AWB and adjust a bit in post.

01-06-2009, 08:50 AM	#8
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	You could turn off the lights in the kitchen and use a flash bounced off the ceiling. Flashes are balanced for daylight/sunlight color temperature, so you wouldn't have a color balance problem, and bouncing off the ceiling will give you similar light to what the overhead lights are already providing.

01-06-2009, 11:04 AM	#9
tybeck Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 452	You could put filter gels on all of your windows.

01-06-2009, 11:12 AM	#10
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	you can just use the colour sliders to saturate/tint the blue colours to your liking... ofcourse you're ****ed if you have a large amount of blue in the scene then again if you're really set on getting the picture right you can use selective layering through photoshop (or other) to only change the tones in a specific area

01-06-2009, 02:16 PM	#11
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	We humans are more tolerant of images that show reddish tints than to excess blue. In your favourite editing software try changing the colour balance more to the tungsten side.

01-07-2009, 09:05 AM	#12
FuzzyOne Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 90 Original Poster	Thanks for the replies. I kind of figured there was no easy answer. Next time I might try the bracket feature with white balance set to daylight and tungsten and then fix it in PS through layers.

01-07-2009, 09:51 AM	#13
emalvick Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Davis, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,642	Originally posted by FuzzyOne Thanks for the replies. I kind of figured there was no easy answer. Next time I might try the bracket feature with white balance set to daylight and tungsten and then fix it in PS through layers. If you shot it in RAW you could develop once for daylight and once for tungsten white balance saving you from having to bracket for white balance.

01-07-2009, 12:35 PM	#14
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	That's because the outside ISN'T lit by tunsgten lighting Not much you can do, except perhaps gel the window, OR if you use a hot-shoe flash, those are usually daylight balanced so the temperatures would match.

01-07-2009, 01:23 PM	#15
Aaron1971 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Yokosuka, Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 162	I think the candle photo looks pretty cool with the lighting the way it is. Whet kind of light bulb is tungsten? I usually leave my setting on AWB.