Photographing Animals (Small)

interested_observer · 10-18-2009, 01:21 PM

Morning,

My wife has been invited to speak to the Judge's Table on the finer points of judging her particular breed of guinea pig, during this year's annual Rabbit and Guinea Pig National Convention (I did not know that there was such a gathering - however, I have now been educated about such things). So she is busy laying out here presentation and power point slides. I have been tasked with taking photographs of the critters, to be embedded in her presentation.

Questions -

Lens - I am thinking of using the DA 12-24/4 because its my sharpest lens, and at 24mm I can easily get a good 2 to 3 feet DOF. However I also have the DA 16-45/4, DA 55-300/4-5.8, M 50/1.7, along with the kit 18-55 lenses in my bag that I can use.

Bodies - I have a K20 and a K100. I am just going to go JPG, and I am considering using the K100 because of the way it handles the noise (looking at using ISO 400). I think that with the 6MP images, projected within a Power Point slide, the IQ should be sufficient. If not, then I can then use the K20.

The setup that my wife has been very successful with on her web site has been with her 7 year old Kodak DX4900 4MP, where she tosses a blanket on the kitchen table, turns on the kitchen lights, supplemented with a table lamp and camera pop-up flash - with pretty successful results. She has been looking at me with a jaundiced eye, saying that I had better out do her in the picture department.

I was going to put the camera up on a tripod, pre-focused, all setup on continuous shooting and use the external wired shutter release. This way, regardless of what the critter does (they tend to move around), I should get a pretty good shot out of say a group of 10 frames.

So any suggestions? ..... here is an example of her work...

*Ash* · 10-18-2009, 02:28 PM

I'm wondering why the 12-24 is your pick for such a shoot, considering you're shooting small animals and would need some working distance so as not to frighten the midgets.

The 55-300 or even the manual fast fifty would be better in this regard - manually focus, set your exposure settings and bounce/off-camera flash (if you have one) and you should outdo your wife OK.

interested_observer · 10-18-2009, 03:22 PM

Initially, that was my idea too. Go with the M50 or the 55-300. Then I was looking at the DOF and the lighting - since I do not have a flash. So I got a desk lamp for the front lighting with the table lamps for back lighting and the tests turned out real well.

At 50mm for around a foot worth of DOF you need to be about 9 feet away, at f2.8. Then I started looking at the DOF tables in earnest. Obviously with the lower apertures you have a thinner DOF and I wanted at least a foot, so the placement of the animal would not be real critical, and given their movement. That moved me to the 16-45 and at f4 things were real good. Going to 24mm with the 12-24, I get an even sharper lens, give nothing away in aperature since its f4 too.

So that is the story on the move from the fast 50, to a much slower lens, but sharper under the conditions. I have more testing to do, but waiting for my batteries to recharge.

My wife with her P&S is usually about 6 to 8 inches away, and her flash is very effective. So far, I have not felt the need for a flash in that I usually do landscapes and my wife hates for her picture to be taken. I might just have to acquire a flash now - for times like these.

Another problem is that usually when you put the critters down they stay very still until they are very comfortable with the situation - then they go off exploring. These guys are so comfortable with the situation - that they are off exploring instantly - even the small ones just a few days old.

*jimH* · 10-18-2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by interested_observer

Another problem is that usually when you put the critters down they stay very still until they are very comfortable with the situation - then they go off exploring. These guys are so comfortable with the situation - that they are off exploring instantly - even the small ones just a few days old.

Ever though of "glue traps"?

**Marc Sabatella** · 10-18-2009, 05:55 PM

I'd imagine there is an ideal shooting distance range for guinea pigs just as there is from people (from a "perspective" perspective) and the 12-24 would require you to be too close for good perspective just as it would with people. That plus the possibility of freaking them out by shooting from too close makes me think 50 or longer.

*Eaglerapids* · 10-18-2009, 06:08 PM

Your M 50/1.7 should be a very sharp lens (mine is) and I agree it would give you some working room along with it's speed. I would try it first. I would mark the spot where focus is set, have everything ready to go, set the guy on the spot and fire a round with the wireless remote. If you set the little guys on the spot or maybe wait till they move over it, 4 or 5 inches of DOF should be enough wouldn't it? You should also set the camera far enough back to give yourself some cropping room, here the K20D would be your friend. So the speed of the 50/1.7 and the cropping ability of K20D files would be my first try:-).

*jimH* · 10-18-2009, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Eaglerapids

Your M 50/1.7 should be a very sharp lens (mine is) and I agree it would give you some working room along with it's speed. I would try it first. I would mark the spot where focus is set, have everything ready to go, set the guy on the spot and fire a round with the wireless remote. If you set the little guys on the spot or maybe wait till they move over it, 4 or 5 inches of DOF should be enough wouldn't it? You should also set the camera far enough back to give yourself some cropping room, here the K20D would be your friend. So the speed of the 50/1.7 and the cropping ability of K20D files would be my first try:-).

I tend to agree with the 50mm focal length. I guess that would be my first choice. I have two f1.4 50s one M and one FA. If you use them at f4 they are very satisfying when it comes to sharpness and perspective. DOF isn't terribly deep but if you are careful you can make a 50 work. This whole thing is made easier with sufficient light. Possibly a light box might be the thing for both even lighting and a somewhat confining space in which to work.

flyer · 10-18-2009, 06:48 PM

To get the same coverage with the 12-24 that you'd get with the 50, you have to get a lot closer, so, overall, you get about the same DOF with both lenses. The background coverage will be different, and so will be the perspective. But, the DOF should be the same if you frame for the same size critter. No pain, no gain. The only way to increase DOF is with a smaller aperture.

**Damn Brit** · 10-19-2009, 01:11 AM

Have you considered how you are going to deal with the embarrassment if you can't produce better results than your wife's old Kodak?

*Igilligan* · 10-19-2009, 01:19 AM

300mm....

I am kidding of course... 500mm for the little guys

interested_observer · 10-19-2009, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Damn Brit

Have you considered how you are going to deal with the embarrassment if you can't produce better results than your wife's old Kodak?

Yup! - I have emphasized already to her, that I do landscapes - e.g., things that don't move!

Originally Posted by jimH

Ever though of "glue traps"?

... now she is in her caviary muttering "glue traps" - not with my animals!!!! She does not even like the Judges picking up her animals since it mattes their coat....

There are several things that I want to try - with the 50/1.7 and the 55-300. So, I think that this effort will probably be across several lenses and see what the results are. Also, it seems that she wants to focus on just a few aspects - the head, and belly curl, etc., so we will see how all of this turns out.

Thanks for the observations, suggestions and ideas - they all help!

mysticcowboy · 10-20-2009, 10:44 PM

Looking at the quality of the sample photo you showed, I'd take some time to try a setup with an equivalent sized toy or something. I've used a lightbox and a 100mm macro about 5 ft away, at f8 for DOF for a parrot shoot.

The honest truth is this is a situation where you might be better off with a point and shoot because their tiny sensors give way better DOF than an SLR.

*Yonnie* · 11-02-2009, 01:10 PM

@ Interested_observer:

How did this go? Are you still able to hold your head high due to great success?

(I resisted the urge to suggest that your wife act as a guinea pig in your tests.)

*res3567* · 11-04-2009, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Igilligan

300mm....

I am kidding of course... 500mm for the little guys

Now that is....... a cool cat. Great shot too!

audiobomber · 11-04-2009, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by interested_observer

Bodies - I have a K20 and a K100. I am just going to go JPG, and I am considering using the K100 because of the way it handles the noise (looking at using ISO 400). I think that with the 6MP images, projected within a Power Point slide, the IQ should be sufficient. If not, then I can then use the K20.[/INDENT]

I don't remember anyone but you ever saying that a K100D has better noise performance than a K20D. What NR setting are you using with the K20? I use Weak, and I can see a clear difference at high ISO, in favour of the K20. My testing (RAW file, NR off, same processing, compared at same size) shows a 2/3 stop improvement over the K100DS.