Really Bad eBay and Paypal Experience

Abbazz · 07-01-2008, 08:46 PM

I would like to share with you the really bad experience I had with Paypal and eBay recently.

At the beginning of June, I have sold two items on eBay (a Fujica GL690 and a Fujinon F:5.6 65mm lens). Both items went to great buyers (cheers to them!), who paid immediately through Paypal. As agreed, I sent the items fully insured through EMS, a very reliable express mail service.

Then I received an email from Paypal stating that Paypal had detected some "illegal activity" on my account and therefore had to suspend my account. I inquired about this "illegal activity" and I received no reply, only a stock e-mail stating that I had to fax over an impressive amount of personal documents in order to restore my account.

Immediately after that, I received the two following notifications from eBay:
"We're sorry to tell you that your eBay account was suspended because recent account activity has raised serious security concerns."
"The following listings have been removed from eBay due to concerns we have for the safety of the eBay Community: 280231362466 - Fujinon F/5.6 65mm Lens for Fuji G690/GL690 NO RESERVE and 280231417183 - Fuji GL690 Rangefinder Medium Format Camera NO RESERVE."

Needless to say I also received worried emails from my buyers, who had no yet received the items they had pay for, and were informed by eBay that these items had been removed "due to concerns for the safety of the eBay Community." They were also advised to lodge a complaint against me. Great!

Fortunately, the buyers accepted to trust my word against eBay's and both items reached their destination soon after. But the story didn't end there. I had faxed all the documents over to Paypal, but the company sent me an email stating that the documents were fine but my account couldn't be restored until both buyers of my items had left a positive feedback on my eBay account, which was of course not possible, my account having been suspended and the items deleted by eBay! On the other hand, eBay was not willing to restore my account until the so called "Paypal Abuse" had been cleared.

After more than two weeks, Paypal accepted to restore my account but eBay was still refusing to do so:
"Additional proof of ownership is required. Please submit a photograph of you with the items. Your User ID must be clearly displayed in the image."

Of course it was not possible to take a photograph of me with items that had been sent to the buyers more than two weeks before!

It took another week to eBay to finally restore my account, after almost one month of suspension. But eBay had decided that the items sold should not appear on my account:
"After further review, it has been decided that your account qualifies for reinstatement. Please note that, although your account is now active, any listings or bids that were cancelled by your account suspension will not be reinstated."

I would like to stress the fact that neither Paypal nor eBay has provided any explanation about the "abuse" I was suspected of. When my account was restored, neither company did also offer an apology or any form of compensation for the pretium doloris suffered.

Cheers!

Abbazz

frank · 07-01-2008, 09:02 PM

Sorry to hear that. But do you know the reason? That's because where you are from ...

Had exactly similar experience before, especially w/ my paypal account ever since I moved to Singapore (I started it when I was in the US around 10 years ago). Seems ebay/paypal just don't trust us from Southeastern Asia.

Abbazz · 07-01-2008, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by frank

Sorry to hear that. But do you know the reason? That's because where you are from ...

Had exactly similar experience before, especially w/ my paypal account ever since I moved to Singapore (I started it when I was in the US around 10 years ago). Seems ebay/paypal just don't trust us from Southeastern Asia.

My worse experiences on eBay were with European and American sellers. Never had any problem with someone from South-East Asia...

If Paypal or eBay had any doubt about my auctions, why did they wait until after the auctions ended to suspend my account? It would have been a better move in order to "protect the Community" to cancel the auctions before they ended, no? Or could it be that eBay and Paypal wanted to grab their commission first? Dirty money has no foul smell when it's on the internet...

Cheers!

Abbazz

Kguru · 07-01-2008, 09:36 PM

I'm sick and tired of Ebay after this bad experience. A guy advertised his mobile phone as unlocked (ie. able to use with any service provider). I paid the purchase price, plus a jacked-up S&H fee, to receive a phone that was locked to Telstra. A blatant case of false advertising.

The seller initially refused to refund citing I could use phone with Telstra. Then, after my persistent bugging him, said I had to return the phone to him first before he refunded the purchase price only. Okay that may be the usual procedure but in this case:
1) He was the party completely at fault
2) I did nothing wrong yet I stood to lose the return postage to him plus the jacked-up S&H fee.
3) I had good causes to doubt his sincerity, to the extent I suspected I may not see a refund even after I returned the phone.

Despite my detailed explanation to Ebay, Ebay did nothing to intervene. In effect they turn a blind eye to deceptive selling on their site and happily collect the fees for it.

*christinelandon* · 07-02-2008, 02:03 AM

My sympathies to all who've had such experiences in on-line commerce. Many people swear by E-Bay. Many people swear at E-Bay.

FWIW, I stay away from E-Bay because of the experiences of the latter group, and wish the former group continued good business experiences. I spend time learning the reputations and practices of on-line vendors before I develop business relationships with them, and I continue to do business with an on-line vendor only so long as its performance is satisfactory in all respects that are important to me. As The Who used to sing, "won't get fooled again!"

creampuff · 07-02-2008, 04:00 AM

Abazz, I would send your complaint to the CEO and at every level of authority at eBay. State your case on their forum. You deserve a formal apology and a full reinstatement of your status without prejudice.

*Ash* · 07-02-2008, 04:15 AM

What a load of rubbish. You've endured quite enough - these companies should be big enough to at least apologise for this misappropriated treatment. Compensation, more like it...

I've found myself shopping with eBay and using PayPal less and less with time...

ftpaddict · 07-02-2008, 04:20 AM

That's why I don't use eBay AT ALL. Ever.

NicholasN · 07-02-2008, 04:22 AM

I'm sick and tired of Ebay after this bad experience. A guy advertised his mobile phone as unlocked (ie. able to use with any service provider). I paid the purchase price, plus a jacked-up S&H fee, to receive a phone that was locked to Telstra. A blatant case of false advertising.

The seller initially refused to refund citing I could use phone with Telstra. Then, after my persistent bugging him, said I had to return the phone to him first before he refunded the purchase price only. Okay that may be the usual procedure but in this case:
1) He was the party completely at fault
2) I did nothing wrong yet I stood to lose the return postage to him plus the jacked-up S&H fee.
3) I had good causes to doubt his sincerity, to the extent I suspected I may not see a refund even after I returned the phone.

Despite my detailed explanation to Ebay, Ebay did nothing to intervene. In effect they turn a blind eye to deceptive selling on their site and happily collect the fees for it.

It sounds like you are from Australia (you mention telstra). You do have the right to complain via the Office Of Fair Trading if your seller and you are both in Australia.

Regards

Nick

JCSullivan · 07-02-2008, 06:44 AM

Abbazz, I had the same experience a few years back when I made a transaction using PP whilst working in Europe. Account suspended.

But i certainly didn't send them the required copies of the documents they wanted - they can screw themselves.

As for an apology - when hell freezes over and prob not even then. Speaking with or emailing these large organisations is like pulling hen's teeth.

Okami · 07-02-2008, 07:36 AM

This is what happens when you own what basically is a monopoly,

I use it because there is nothing else even close to the amount of items or users on it but both ebay and paypal have the worst customer service in the world and really don't give a rats @$$ about their custoemrs. They know no matter what they do they are the biggest dog in town by far.

boren · 07-02-2008, 08:04 AM

Abbazz,

Here's a great post for the Consumerist.com. Give this a try, ebay is a public company, so all the steps should be there.

HOWTO: Call A Company, Get The CEO's Office

Here's some phone numbers you might find handy.

Holy Grails: All The Secret Paypal/Ebay Email Addresses And Phone Numbers You Could Ever Want

*tybeck* · 07-02-2008, 08:43 AM

That's horrible. The sad thing is it's all legal and within the user's agreement. I've never had any problems myself, but you hear these kinds stories more often. There are some other auction folks in the wings and eBay/PayPal need to treat the people who are making them all their money better.

Rollei35 · 07-02-2008, 08:52 AM

My experience with both ebay and its daughter paypal is that they dont care much for any seller and usually answer in a typicall way with stereotype letters.
Well, the seller needs ebay, the buyer can shop everywhere.
My on big and serious bad experience let me vow never again to accept sending an uninsured parcel because its cheaper for the buyer (and Boy, how they cry about every Euro they might have to spend on postage), no matter how the buyer claims to accept responsibility for this choice:
If the parcel gets lost or even only late, the buyer can lodge a complaint with paypal and gets his money back.
This is because the seller can show only a post office receipt without the buyers name and adress - a consequence of the buyers request for cheap mailing - and paypal doesnt care whether the buyer specifically asked for this way.
Its the sellers fault and he pays.
So down under sits a guy who expects a delivery of bicycle parts worth Euro 180,- and he already got his money back....

lithos · 07-02-2008, 09:04 AM

There's plenty of these stories ("You're moving quite a bit of money there, there's no way you got it legally") over at paypalsucks.com.

Ebay changed to PayPal, apparently, because too many people were complaining about sellers who took a buyer's money and ran. Ostensibly having the phrase "EBAY IS IN NO WAY RESPONSIBLE FOR FOR ANY MISHANDLED TRANSACTIONS BETWEEN BUYER AND SELLER" somewhere on the site may have prevented that.

I liked direct bank transfers. People have been buying this way through newspaper classifieds for centuries. All PayPal does is add another layer of bureaucracy and a middleman, whose fees go directly to Ebay...funny, that.

For Aussies, like me, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel.

"The ACCC acknowledges that having PayPal as the only payment provider has the potential to deliver some benefits to users, such as increased buyer protection insurance in certain circumstances. However, the ACCC believes that consumers are in the best position to decide which payment method is most suitable for them.

"The notified conduct denies them that choice. Accordingly, the ACCC considers that these benefits do not outweigh the anti-competitive effects of the conduct," Mr Samuel said.

Unfortunately, the ACCC gets the term "toothless tiger" thrown at it a lot.

What's likely is that there'll be some half-arsed compromise reached. "For a modest fee, eBay will allow sellers the option of bank transfer payment or money orders. This will only apply to 'Buy It Now' sales, not regular auctions" or something similar.