The Chart

[graphicgr8s]

US Healthcare Chart

[Damn Brit]

And dealing with the insurance companies isn't a minefield of bureaucracy?
The government does a pretty good job with the postal service. Can you imagine how much postage would cost and how many letters would get lost if it was run by a private company?
Social Security manages to get the checks out ok.

[graphicgr8s]

Originally Posted by Damn Brit

And dealing with the insurance companies isn't a minefield of bureaucracy?
The government does a pretty good job with the postal service. Can you imagine how much postage would cost and how many letters would get lost if it was run by a private company?
Social Security manages to get the checks out ok.

Social Security is bankrupt as is medicare.

3 things need to happen.

1. There must be legislation brought forth where "our" representatives must actually read the bills they vote on.

2. All members of the government including the Senators and Representatives and the President MUST be on this plan and give up the one you and I currently pay for that they have now.

3. They must give up their current retirement package and use the Social Security system that you and I won't get at retirement because it is bankrupt.

What makes you think that they won't bankrupt this plan as they did medicare and medicaid. The only part that came in under budget was Part D

This plan they are pushing through should be called rationed care. Look at Britain. Women now can't get drugs for breast cancer.

[Driver3]

It's always better to deal with an insurance company that is profit based.
They increase profits by denying services? Sounds MUCH better...NOT!

[graphicgr8s]

Originally Posted by Driver3

It's always better to deal with an insurance company that is profit based.
They increase profits by denying services? Sounds MUCH better...NOT!

So it's better to be denied service by the government? For it to be rationed? For it to bankrupt the US. Wait, it already is.

Funny though you always hear stories of people from Britain and Canada coming to the US for treatment they can't get in their own country. You don't really hear people of the US going there for treatment though. Well they do go to Mexico for coffee enemas and such.

Problem is the government along with most of the populace has no clue as to what the real problem with health insurance is. Every one wants to blame the insurance company. Wrong place to put the blame however. Plus the fact that you don't need womb to the tomb care.

[cardinal43]

Originally Posted by Damn Brit

Social Security manages to get the checks out ok.

And I'm glad they do, as I got my first one last month. Woo! Hoo!

[slomojoe]

Social security is solvent at current levels at least until 2040, and the reasons why it may run into future problems are essentially demographic, something that people during the New Deal could hardly be blamed not planning for. It could be easily fixed by several logical steps: adjusting retirement ages to current expected lifespans, reducing its regressive nature, etc. It worked remarkably well, plus frankly only a lunatic at this point would again propose the privatization of SS, which the GOP was on the verge of pushing through just a few years back.

Medicare works at an average 30% better cost efficiency than private insurance, with a far more sick and marginal population base.

As for the chart, I can assure you that if you run one for current HMOs, you'd get a very similar picture. Again, it may impress the rubes, but it is meaningless.

[flyer]

Originally Posted by graphicgr8s

Funny though you always hear stories of people from Britain and Canada coming to the US for treatment they can't get in their own country.

Canadians going to your country for treatments are a minority. They go in the U.S.A. for two reasons: shortage of doctors in Canada, and treatments that are unavailable in their area. And the last one doesnù,t mean the treatment is not available in Canada. It means it sometime is cheaper to go to U.S.A. than somewher further in Canada.

[graphicgr8s]

Originally Posted by flyer

Canadians going to your country for treatments are a minority. They go in the U.S.A. for two reasons: shortage of doctors in Canada, and treatments that are unavailable in their area. And the last one doesnù,t mean the treatment is not available in Canada. It means it sometime is cheaper to go to U.S.A. than somewher further in Canada.

Cheaper? You mean you have to PAY for your healthcare too?

[graphicgr8s]

Originally Posted by slomojoe

Social security is solvent at current levels at least until 2040, and the reasons why it may run into future problems are essentially demographic, something that people during the New Deal could hardly be blamed not planning for. It could be easily fixed by several logical steps: adjusting retirement ages to current expected lifespans, reducing its regressive nature, etc. It worked remarkably well, plus frankly only a lunatic at this point would again propose the privatization of SS, which the GOP was on the verge of pushing through just a few years back.

Medicare works at an average 30% better cost efficiency than private insurance, with a far more sick and marginal population base.

As for the chart, I can assure you that if you run one for current HMOs, you'd get a very similar picture. Again, it may impress the rubes, but it is meaningless.

Social Security is solvent so long as people think the IOU's there are worth anything. It hasn't been solvent in years.

Yep. Adjust retirement ages. So you start collecting at 90.

Medicare works? What dreamland are you in?

I will say this. I pay a lot for my insurance but am happy with the coverage I get.

Problem is the mindset of people. They want a womb to tomb policy. I know how to get the problem solved but no one would do it.

[slomojoe]

Originally Posted by graphicgr8s

Social Security is solvent so long as people think the IOU's there are worth anything. It hasn't been solvent in years.

Social security is solvent until 2040, according to Board of Trustees' estimates. After that, I think it is supposed to be able to pay ~80% of benefits for any foreseeable future. All this assuming no change to contributions and benefits are done.

Of course, the problem is that SS money has been used for other purposes, but that does not mean the fund itself is insolvent. The Clinton administration and Gore proposed to set aside enough of the surplus to extend the full-solvency life of the current SS system for a long time, but Bush and the Republicans in Congress chose to squander the money in tax cuts to the wealthy and unnecessary wars. Their proposed "fix" to SS, i.e. privatization, would have devastated the lives of countless families. Thankfully, they failed.

Yep. Adjust retirement ages. So you start collecting at 90.

Actually, I seem to remember that extending the benefit eligibility age by 2 years would extend the life of the fund by several decades. Not bad, considering that life expectancy of the 50 year-old cohort has increased by almost a decade since the 30s.

Medicare works? What dreamland are you in?

It works better than private insurance, according to surveys of actual patients. For instance:

Chart 18. Using 0 to 10, where 0 is the worst possible and 10 is the best , how would you rate all your health care?


Chart from DHHS.

[graphicgr8s]

What you fail to take into account is that SS also pay people who have not put in a dime.

Again, SS is based upon a bunch of IOU's that will soon be worthless as the current administration bankrupts US

I know this much. I pay Medicaid. I receive no benefit. They just confiscate my money.

From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

Clinton is just as guilty for using SS money in the General fund.

God I can't believe what I am about to say.


Gooshin was right. Why was that thread closed anyway?

[Shibby3.8]

Originally Posted by graphicgr8s

Social Security is solvent so long as people think the IOU's there are worth anything. It hasn't been solvent in years.

Yep. Adjust retirement ages. So you start collecting at 90.

Medicare works? What dreamland are you in?

I will say this. I pay a lot for my insurance but am happy with the coverage I get.

Problem is the mindset of people. They want a womb to tomb policy. I know how to get the problem solved but no one would do it.

Social Security is sending out IOU's? hmm, my grandparents haven't been complaining....

Forgive me if I'm misinformed but the plans the house and senate are putting together are meant more for people who don't have employer based/group health insurance. Its for the millions of uninsured people who are that way because their companies don't offer a plan.

No one is taking away your insurance... they're trying to offer another option, nothing wrong with a little competition.

Whatever they come up with, it will still be like every other insurance company, a monstrous bureaucracy. But you'll still have options.

To be honest... the way to curb all this healthcare garbage is to control the healthcare costs from the bottom up.

For instance: I'm sick of my wife going to a podiatrist every month so she can sit in a waiting room for an hour then finally be seen by the doctor for 5 mins, he looks at her toenail (which fell off due to an infection) and makes sure its growing back slowly, then sends me a bill for 65 bucks. There is no reason she's going every month, we can see ourselves its growing back, if its not we can call the guy. But he insists we come in every month.

The biggest problem I see is the lack of customer service and the excessive office visits (which at this point seem to be a scam to just bill more hours). I'm one unhappy customer, we've voiced our complaints to the secretaries and the doctor, he just looks at you with a 'too bad' face. There needs to be better information on doctors/healthcare providers for health care consumers... up front information (rate sheets/costs of procedures, wait times etc.).

Then there's the Gyno that can't write a script out so anyone can read it and the lab can't determine what blood test to do. Then the doctor won't return any calls and the secretaries put you on hold for 20 mins every time you call... I'm extremely unhappy with all of these experiences.

Needless to say we're looking for new doctors (and we have some good ones) but that search is difficult because of the lack of information. You have no idea whether they are going to be cheap/expensive, good/bad before you go in.

There needs to be a change in how the industry conducts itself.

[graphicgr8s]

Originally Posted by Shibby3.8

Social Security is sending out IOU's? hmm, my grandparents haven't been complaining....

Forgive me if I'm misinformed but the plans the house and senate are putting together are meant more for people who don't have employer based/group health insurance. Its for the millions of uninsured people who are that way because their companies don't offer a plan.

No one is taking away your insurance... they're trying to offer another option, nothing wrong with a little competition.

Whatever they come up with, it will still be like every other insurance company, a monstrous bureaucracy. But you'll still have options.

To be honest... the way to curb all this healthcare garbage is to control the healthcare costs from the bottom up.

For instance: I'm sick of my wife going to a podiatrist every month so she can sit in a waiting room for an hour then finally be seen by the doctor for 5 mins, he looks at her toenail (which fell off due to an infection) and makes sure its growing back slowly, then sends me a bill for 65 bucks. There is no reason she's going every month, we can see ourselves its growing back, if its not we can call the guy. But he insists we come in every month.

The biggest problem I see is the lack of customer service and the excessive office visits (which at this point seem to be a scam to just bill more hours). I'm one unhappy customer, we've voiced our complaints to the secretaries and the doctor, he just looks at you with a 'too bad' face. There needs to be better information on doctors/healthcare providers for health care consumers... up front information (rate sheets/costs of procedures, wait times etc.).

Then there's the Gyno that can't write a script out so anyone can read it and the lab can't determine what blood test to do. Then the doctor won't return any calls and the secretaries put you on hold for 20 mins every time you call... I'm extremely unhappy with all of these experiences.

Needless to say we're looking for new doctors (and we have some good ones) but that search is difficult because of the lack of information. You have no idea whether they are going to be cheap/expensive, good/bad before you go in.

There needs to be a change in how the industry conducts itself.

YOU are the one ultimately responsible for your health care needs. So don't go to the doctor every month.
I talk to my doctor. I tell him what procedures I want and what I want done.
If what they are planning is so great then our reps should put their money, I mean life, where their mouth is. They need to use the same system we will have to. The Obama says it will increase competition. It's really hard to compete with something that can either print more money or just tax its citizens more. It will drive insurance companies out and there will be no real choice. Rationed care.

There also needs to be a change in the mindset of the end user. (That's you)

[Wheatfield]

Originally Posted by flyer

Canadians going to your country for treatments are a minority. They go in the U.S.A. for two reasons: shortage of doctors in Canada, and treatments that are unavailable in their area. And the last one doesnù,t mean the treatment is not available in Canada. It means it sometime is cheaper to go to U.S.A. than somewher further in Canada.

A lot of what happens in Canada is that specialists are lured to the USA by promises of a much higher standard of living (paid for by for profit health care), thereby creating a shortage of specialists, often doctors who are at the cutting edge, so to speak. We are also suffering from a lack of GPs because it is more lucrative to specialize.
OTOH, I was talking to a young man in Oregon a few years ago who couldn't afford heath insurance, and was, as he said, one clumsy moment away from bankruptcy because even something like a broken leg was more than he could afford to pay for out of his own pocket.
The Canadian medicare system is very good, but unfortunately isn't perfect.