Another ship seized by somali pirates..

[Reportage]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/co...es/8309204.stm



"Somali pirates have seized a Singapore-flagged container ship in the Indian Ocean, a maritime official says.
The MV Kota Wajar was headed to the Kenyan port of Mombasa when it was commandeered 300 nautical miles north of Seychelles.
Twenty one crew are on board the 24,637-tonne container ship, said an official from the East African Seafarers' Assistance Programme."

In my opinion, its only a matter of time before a nation gets fed up and simply orders military retaliation like Search and Destroy or carpet bomb the pirates ports regardless what the Joint forces say. The one country the pirates shouldnt aggravate would be China....just their million strong infantry is likely enough to change the landscape of somalia as well as possibly make the word "somalian" an extinct people/term.

[flippedgazelle]

Originally Posted by Reportage

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/co...es/8309204.stm



"Somali pirates have seized a Singapore-flagged container ship in the Indian Ocean, a maritime official says.
The MV Kota Wajar was headed to the Kenyan port of Mombasa when it was commandeered 300 nautical miles north of Seychelles.
Twenty one crew are on board the 24,637-tonne container ship, said an official from the East African Seafarers' Assistance Programme."

In my opinion, its only a matter of time before a nation gets fed up and simply orders military retaliation like Search and Destroy or carpet bomb the pirates ports regardless what the Joint forces say. The one country the pirates shouldnt aggravate would be China....just their million strong infantry is likely enough to change the landscape of somalia as well as possibly make the word "somalian" an extinct people/term.

That would be a flagrant and reckless violation of multiple int'l treaties. An event like that could possibly trigger WW3.

[Parallax]

Originally Posted by Reportage

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/co...es/8309204.stm
...................In my opinion, its only a matter of time before a nation gets fed up and simply orders military retaliation like Search and Destroy or carpet bomb the pirates ports regardless what the Joint forces say. The one country the pirates shouldnt aggravate would be China....just their million strong infantry is likely enough to change the landscape of somalia as well as possibly make the word "somalian" an extinct people/term.

Either that, or the shipping companies are going to wake up, say to hell with "International Law" and start arming (heavily). Blowing a few pirate vessels out of the water may help the situation.

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

That would be a flagrant and reckless violation of multiple int'l treaties...................

We sure wouldn't want to do that. Look how safe the treaties make the world.
There was a time we would have been allowed to swat these human gnats with whatever flyswatter was necessary. Now, thanks to treaties and peace accords and world alliances we are at their mercy.

[ve2vfd]

I'd love to see a repeat of the US Navy Seals execution of the pirates... hopefully the Signapore military will have as much balls as the US Navy and take the pirates out.

As long as companies pay ransoms, pirates will hijack ships. It's a win-win situation with little to no consequences or risks for pirates. The day hijacking a ship = instant retaliation with deadly force is the day pirating stops.

Pat

[Gooshin]

+1 for "carpet bombing"

[flippedgazelle]

Originally Posted by Parallax

Either that, or the shipping companies are going to wake up, say to hell with "International Law" and start arming (heavily). Blowing a few pirate vessels out of the water may help the situation.

We sure wouldn't want to do that. Look how safe the treaties make the world.
There was a time we would have been allowed to swat these human gnats with whatever flyswatter was necessary. Now, thanks to treaties and peace accords and world alliances we are at their mercy.

Yeah, well, I didn't say I liked it, but the US did sign the treaties.

Besides, the current even in question involves a Singapore ship, not USA.

There actually has never been "a time we would have been allowed to swat these human gnats with whatever flyswatter was necessary," since the USA has been a significant naval force.

[Parallax]

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

Yeah, well, I didn't say I liked it, but the US did sign the treaties.....................

That doesn't mean they aren't useless.

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

....................."a time we would have been allowed to swat these human gnats with whatever flyswatter was necessary," since the USA has been a significant naval force.

OK, let me re phrase it.: There was a time when anyone affected by it would have just swatted these human gnats with whatever flyswatter was necessary, and the rest of the world would have thanked them for it.

Anybody remember the Faulklands? THAT'S the way you deal with punks and pirates.

[flippedgazelle]

Originally Posted by Parallax

That doesn't mean they aren't useless.
OK, let me re phrase it.: There was a time when anyone affected by it would have just swatted these human gnats with whatever flyswatter was necessary, and the rest of the world would have thanked them for it.

Anybody remember the Faulklands? THAT'S the way you deal with punks and pirates.

I agree that these treaties inhibit appropriate responses to pirates. Clearly, something needs to change when we need to wait for aggression to be waged against us before proper action can be taken. Also, US military forces are stretched thin enough, and we shouldn't have to shoulder most the the load to ensure maritime safety.

The Falkland Island invasion was a little different, in that Argentinian forces invaded the islands against the will of the populace. Since the islands were (and are) a territory of the UK, Britain was entirely within their rights to repulse the invaders.

[kcmadr]

Africa works in mysterious ways. Unless you've lived there for a very long time you will not understand it.

If every single time from now on, a pirate vessel is blown to smithereens when it hijacks a ship, it will still continue. It's hard to explain, but that's just how it is. It is not fixable.

[Parallax]

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

.......................The Falkland Island invasion was a little different, in that Argentinian forces invaded the islands against the will of the populace. Since the islands were (and are) a territory of the UK, Britain was entirely within their rights to repulse the invaders.

True, but the only real difference between that and the pirates is that in the Faulklands, the sponsorship of the action by the Argentine government was overt. The Somali government isn't quite as open about it's sponsorship of the pirates.
As (I presume) the ships are being seized without the acquiescence of the crew or or the nations that own the ships, they should have just as much right to act.

[Ash]

Originally Posted by kcmadr

Africa works in mysterious ways. Unless you've lived there for a very long time you will not understand it.

If every single time from now on, a pirate vessel is blown to smithereens when it hijacks a ship, it will still continue. It's hard to explain, but that's just how it is. It is not fixable.

This is true, but it's mainly the Somalis that do this.

They have nothing to lose but their lives, which they may not value much anyway. All they see in gain is dollar signs by hijacking and taking people hostage.

[Ratmagiclady]

I heard some maritime security expert interviewed during the last round of these pirate episodes. He mentioned something that seems to be consensus: just arming up merchant ships only tends to escalate things. They had some interesting ideas, some higher-tech and some lower, just to make the decks of these ships physically harder to access, at least for the average band of desperadoes: electrified obstacles or some such.

[Parallax]

Originally Posted by kcmadr

.....................If every single time from now on, a pirate vessel is blown to smithereens when it hijacks a ship, it will still continue. It's hard to explain, but that's just how it is. It is not fixable.

Originally Posted by Ash

This is true, but it's mainly the Somalis that do this.

They have nothing to lose but their lives, which they may not value much anyway. All they see in gain is dollar signs by hijacking and taking people hostage.

I think you are both right. It won't stop the attempts, but if the ships are properly armed, and the crews trained the pirates will be the only ones getting hurt, so who cares whether they stop or not.
They will either wise up or or become extinct by attrition.

Originally Posted by Ratmagiclady

........................They had some interesting ideas, some higher-tech and some lower, just to make the decks of these ships physically harder to access, at least for the average band of desperadoes: electrified obstacles or some such.

Boiling oil supposedly worked pretty well on castle walls in medieval times. Seems like the same principle might work on a ship.

[ve2vfd]

They may not value their lives much, but they value them enough to turn back when they are about to lose them:

French troops on tuna ship fight Indian Ocean pirates | Reuters


French troops on tuna ship fight Indian Ocean pirates

PARIS, Oct 13 (Reuters) - French marines deployed on a tuna fleet off the Seychelles fired at suspected Somali pirates on Tuesday, the second such clash in the space of a few days as France protects its highly lucrative tuna industry.

While navies from around the world struggle to contain escalating pirate attacks in the Indian Ocean, some countries like France are opting to directly protect their vessels though others fear this could make things worse.

Small boats carrying what appeared to be Somali pirates chased two French tuna fishing ships some 370 km north of the Seychelles, French military spokesman Christophie Prazuck said.

"The troops fired a type of flare to show the pirates that the ships were protected. As they continued to come closer, the soldiers fired warning shots in front of the boats of the pirates, who turned back and stopped the attack," he said.

On Saturday, French troops fired at pirates in a similar confrontation to protect two tuna ships some 350 km off the Seychelles.

And you guys laugh at France?

Pat

[Reportage]

its one thing to recognize treaties and such but when the pirates start eating into the country`s coffers, its a different ball game.