Islamophobia in Europe: Banning Minarets

[Gooshin]

Originally Posted by waqas

So you also agree that those Minarets are as bad as missiles and they must stop building Minarets if they want to stop Islamists from taking over? Based on that idea, Malaysia has 50% Muslim population and a big Christian and Hindu minority population, that shouldn't be a peaceful country, but the reality is different, the minorities are well-protected. Recently there was a protest by Muslims who used a cow's head in a procession, the Court fined those people for hurting the sentiments of Hindus and for provocating Hindus.

You say peaceful, yet I read TWO conflicts in your last sentence.

[mtroute]

Originally Posted by Gooshin

The current conflicts are in countries of Islamic faith, and before some idiot brings in the Jew comments, the difference here is that the persecution of Jews was groundless, Jews were not blowing Germany's buildings to bits and fighting guirilla warfare to rid the rest of the world of "infidels"..

"...This war of nations demands heavy sacrifice. Still, those sacrifices do not begin to compare with those we would be forced to bring if we lose. The enemy naturally wants to make his battle against [us] as easy and safe as possible, and hopes to diminish our morale by seductive agitation. That is poison for weak souls. He who falls for it proves he has learned nothing from the war. He thinks it possible to take the easy road, when only the hard path leads to freedom.." ".. .In other words, they are the rubbish of our nation, who nonetheless give the enemy an entirely false idea of this people..." "...That nation, which has demonstrated heroism and more heroism, has only one wish when reading these accounts: to kill them. They deserve nothing else. One cannot even claim that they do not know what they are doing. They have to know it, for they have been told often enough, even by the enemy, should they not want to believe us..."

Joseph Goebbels


Sounds like they considered the jews a threat.

[Gooshin]

Originally Posted by mtroute

Sounds like they considered the jews a threat.

Yessssss and that is why everyone is still on Germany's back for the whole Nazi incident, "they" considered Jews a threat under false pretenses.

When the two towers fell over and Al'Qaeda claimed responsibility, do think there was any doubt whether they were a threat or not? They claimed it in the name of Islam, and they recruit in the name of Islam, and they misuse the Koran to get more people to join their cause, (among other Anti-American and what not propoganda).

Then you have the rest of the Islam community (the majority), say that "the extremists are wrong, we dont agree with them, why do you judge us, judge them, dont judge us, let us live free and peacefully"

but how, how do you let the majority live peacefully while the enemy lurks among their ranks and you not having the slightest clue as to who they are!

when world war 2 rolled around, do you know what happened to all the Japanese people in British Columbia (Canada)... look it up.

[waqas]

Originally Posted by Gooshin

your assumption is wrong, read what raz-0 said, thats pretty bang on.

The question is of social integrity and productivity as my island comment was made to demonstrate.

Cultural integration can work, but it rarely does, and oftentimes leads to conflict of one sort or another, and i am talking as someone that lives in a city that has a 42% of its population as some type of visible minority.

The current conflicts are in countries of Islamic faith, and before some idiot brings in the Jew comments, the difference here is that the persecution of Jews was groundless, Jews were not blowing Germany's buildings to bits and fighting guirilla warfare to rid the rest of the world of "infidels".

The Islam extremist, and this is the key word here, extremists, have taken the Koran in a way that the rest of the peaceful Muslims are advocating as wrong.

But, hey, sorry to hear that but whether they read the Koran wrong or not has no bearing on the fact that they are blowing things up and we have no way of knowing the difference between you or them!

So what do you propose?

Then all you see is hangs go up and everyone stares at their feet.. because the answer is so complex no one has found it yet.

So until things cool down, the Swiss are trying to limit their exposure and possible conflict to as little as possible.

Again, it's sad that you are accepting the stereotype that more Minarets means more bombs.

Were the Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians blowing peaceful Americans up to deserve 4 million deaths?
Why weren't Palestinians blowing themselves up to kill a few Jews before the creation of Israel in 1948? More than 3 million of those "terrorists" are under brutal military occupation, they can't get to work, home or college before spending hours at checkpoints, women have given birth at checkpoints because they weren't allowed to go to hospitals, women in labor have died at checkpoints (UN, HRW, Amnesty, plenty of reliable sources are there)

Iranian "problem" didn't originate in 1979's Islamic revolution.
Was Iran's President Mossadeq overthrown by CIA in 1953 because Iranians were blowing up Americans?

Half a million Iraqi kids died (UN estimate) because of lack of medicines due to US-imposed sanctions on Iraq between 1991 and 1996, nad Madeline Albright said that the cost was "worth it". That was before "crazy Muslims" blew up bombs to kill innocent westerners.

Why did "they" attack on 9/11? Read the 9/11 report, it says that the US foreign policy towards Muslim nations and unilateral Israeli support was the motivation behind 9/11.

[waqas]

Originally Posted by Gooshin

Yessssss and that is why everyone is still on Germany's back for the whole Nazi incident, "they" considered Jews a threat under false pretenses.

When the two towers fell over and Al'Qaeda claimed responsibility, do think there was any doubt whether they were a threat or not?

Facts:
1. Taliban Government condemned the attacks.
2. Muslimsa round the world condemned the attacks like other people of the world.
3. Osama / Alqaeda never claimed responsibility.
4. None of the 19 hijackers were from Afghanistan.
5. Taliban were willing to try Osama in court and demanded proof of Osama's involvement.


And you're saying that the persecution of Jews was under a false pretense and the persecution of Muslims is justified because those Minarets are the same as Alqaeda/Osama?

[Gooshin]

Originally Posted by waqas

Again, it's sad that you are accepting the stereotype that more Minarets means more bombs.

More Minarets would be a sign of welcome for those of Islam faith. Prayer is a very important part of daily life for a Muslim, if you make it uncomfortable for them to live a daily life, you might succeed at driving them out.

Its much easier for a military organization to keep track of a few people rather than many.

[Gooshin]

Originally Posted by waqas

And you're saying that the persecution of Jews was under a false pretense and the persecution of Muslims is justified because those Minarets are the same as Alqaeda/Osama?

who's persecuting?

Muslisms want a building built, Swiss say "NO", get over it.

[waqas]

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

Hermann Göring at Nuremberg trials

[waqas]

Originally Posted by Gooshin

who's persecuting?

Muslisms want a building built, Swiss say "NO", get over it.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[flippedgazelle]

Originally Posted by waqas

Facts:
3. Osama / Alqaeda never claimed responsibility.

Osama, on tape, claimed responsibility for 9/11 attacks.

"In fact, brother Zacarias Moussaoui has no connection whatever with the Sep 11 operation," Osama bin Laden said in the audiotape that Al Jazeera on Tuesday reported was posted on a website.

"I am the man responsible for the recruitment of the 19 people who carried out the attacks, and I did not assign any task to Moussaoui," he added.

[Gooshin]

Originally Posted by waqas

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

Hermann Göring at Nuremberg trials

no one is killing anyone though...

[Gooshin]

okay, you know what

i've been trying to keep more or less objective in this conversation but you seem to push the envelope.

before you start waving a stick at the Swiss, turn around and look at your own country and the shit they got themselves into, your fellow men and your fellow leaders.

Originally Posted by waqas

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[flippedgazelle]

Originally Posted by Gooshin

why?

10 guys on an island, 9 black 1 white, lets just assume for a moment that all 9 black guys dont like the white guy, so they "vote him off".

we as an audience might feel bad for the white guy, we can throw out such words as racism and intolerance. But if the remaining 9 guys feel better after whitey tootles off then why should our opinion really matter? Its their ****ing island.

Switzerland is not Australia, and it is not America. Europe's Islam problem is quite different, you have to realize how close to home these conflicts are for these people.

Yup, you've just pointed out the dark side of Democracy. Democracy, in it's purest form, has nothing to do with absolutes of what's "right" and "wrong", just "popular" and "unpopular".

[waqas]

Originally Posted by Gooshin

no one is killing anyone though...

You didn't read the above posts? The last time I checked, the killing was going on. Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, now even the innocent civilians of Pakistan are being bombed by pilotless drones.

There is dehumanization of all Muslim people, and we have a disregard of the lives of Iraqis, Afghans and Pakistanis and then we say that "no one is killing anyone though..."

When using delivery adjusted cost data as a proxy for accuracy, U.S/NATO "precision" bombing slaughters many more innocent Afghan civilians than does a Taliban suicide car bomber.

[Gooshin]

Originally Posted by waqas

....

the SWISS

the SWISS are not killing anyone by disallowing them to build their Minarets.