forward thinking, discussions, and article privacy rights.

Gooshin · 11-05-2009, 10:00 AM

Last night i was reading an article published in Harper Magazine in 2001:

The American Rome: On the Theory of the Virtuous Empire,” by Lewis H. Lapham

Published in August, a month before the 9-11 attacks, it had some interesting insights into American foreign policy, the decision of the United Nations Human Rights Commission to kick America out a couple of months prior, and a look at how America wages (or does not wage) wars against the rest of the world.

This article was assigned to to us for class and was provided online as a download, this morning i wanted to share this article with the members of this forum and spearhead a discussion so that not only would i be able to de-construct the articles arguments prior to tomorrows lecture (since i find this forum to be better informed and opinionated than a university class where only 20% of the people actually care about the material, and the discussion is very short, after all said and done, there is probably just an hours worth of verbal-on-the-fly discussion that is full of logical holes and things left unanswered)

The professor however decided to substitute that essay for another essay and subsequently pulled the original. Since i never saved the PDF i now have no access to this piece of information!

So i go to the world wide web to try and nab a copy. Tough luck, the only thing i can find is from Harper itself and they want me to pay 17 bucks for a subscription.

The last time i posted one of these articles a member got all edgy with me about copy right laws and all that bullshit.

I personally do not believe in paying for education, unless there is some direct cost associated with physical materials (like a film lab, or clay work).

Even if i do bust down and pay the 17 bucks for a years access (pennies right?), it would be a legal infraction for me to copy and post the article here.

How could education and enlightenment happen when there is a dollar sign on everything?

Particularly when the information is so damn old (8 years!)

I hear it in the news all the time, that "we" must provide better education for our kids, but what about better education for us adults.

At this point my education is effectively limited to a single professor and a small sample of intellectual students, most of whom are fresh out of highschool.

The only way i can expand my own education , and help educate others (you), is by sharing what i know/learned and asking for a discussion, however that would be breaking the law, how absurd is that?

discuss.

flippedgazelle · 11-05-2009, 10:12 AM

It's almost as though... you feel you have the right - perhaps even the imperative - to educate yourself.

Interesting concept.
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Seriously, is there a library you can get to that might carry back issues?

Gooshin · 11-05-2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

It's almost as though... you feel you have the right - perhaps even the imperative - to educate yourself.

Interesting concept.
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Seriously, is there a library you can get to that might carry back issues?

No i have the article, its printed out, but its at home..

Even if i could find a magazine back issue, i want to share it with the rest of you, so i would have to scan it and post it.

I'm going to scan my printed copy anyway, its just going to take longer... but the point is that i would be committing a crime! Yikes

EDIT: and its 2009, what library? The only time i go to my University library is to take a nap between classes, the 6th floor is quiet...

flippedgazelle · 11-05-2009, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Gooshin

No i have the article, its printed out, but its at home..

Even if i could find a magazine back issue, i want to share it with the rest of you, so i would have to scan it and post it.

I'm going to scan my printed copy anyway, its just going to take longer... but the point is that i would be committing a crime! Yikes

EDIT: and its 2009, what library? The only time i go to my University library is to take a nap between classes, the 6th floor is quiet...

I'm sure it will be an interesting read.

Back in the day, I'd go the the local library, open a book or magazine, and then photocopy the pages I wanted. For those who don't know, a photocopier was a device that allowed you to make unauthorized copies of copyrighted material, without the copyright holder's knowledge or consent. I think the photocopier was nicknamed the "Devil's Infernal Machine" because of this. I didn't know any better - I was merely seeking knowledge...

*Wheatfield* · 11-05-2009, 10:36 AM

I suspect you could argue fair usage for educational purposes.

*graphicgr8s* · 11-05-2009, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Gooshin

I personally do not believe in paying for education, unless there is some direct cost associated with physical materials (like a film lab, or clay work).

So you're not paying for your college course? After all what direct cost is associated there? The building? You could do it online. The Professor? He should do it because he needs to. So they're teaching you for free. I like it.

I personally don't believe in paying for basic nourishment/vitamins.

*graphicgr8s* · 11-05-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

I'm sure it will be an interesting read.

Back in the day, I'd go the the local library, open a book or magazine, and then photocopy the pages I wanted. For those who don't know, a photocopier was a device that allowed you to make unauthorized copies of copyrighted material, without the copyright holder's knowledge or consent. I think the photocopier was nicknamed the "Devil's Infernal Machine" because of this. I didn't know any better - I was merely seeking knowledge...

Actually Wheatfield is correct. There is a certain percentage of a book/article, etc. that falls under fair usage. And there are some texts that are copyrighted that the authors/publishers actually encourage copying.

Gooshin · 11-05-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by graphicgr8s

So you're not paying for your college course? After all what direct cost is associated there? The building? You could do it online. The Professor? He should do it because he needs to. So they're teaching you for free. I like it.

No, i'm paying for it, although i'm paying a fraction of what an International student pays...

average yearly tuition costs are around 7000 dollars for a single year (two semesters)

But i always think back to my father, who completed 5 years of university without spending a dime, and for the better part of his last two years, had paid internship positions which ultimately propelled him into his chosen field.

*graphicgr8s* · 11-05-2009, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Gooshin

No, i'm paying for it, although i'm paying a fraction of what an International student pays...

average yearly tuition costs are around 7000 dollars for a single year (two semesters)

But i always think back to my father, who completed 5 years of university without spending a dime, and for the better part of his last two years, had paid internship positions which ultimately propelled him into his chosen field.

In the USSR?

And what field? (OK that's just idle curiosity. Has nothing to do with the discussion)

What are you studying?

Gooshin · 11-05-2009, 11:05 AM

Hydro geology..

this is him in Kamchatka before i was even born..

i'm a business administration graduate that went back to school.. i'm currently taking a program outlined as "professional writing" with various streams. But currently i have set aims towards something in the journalism industry.

So i'm back in school doing an undergrad with all the young kids of whom i once was, tee hee.

*graphicgr8s* · 11-05-2009, 11:41 AM

Hate to tell you you still are.

What part of Russia is your Dad from?

Gooshin · 11-05-2009, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by graphicgr8s

Hate to tell you you still are.

What part of Russia is your Dad from?

I thought i mentioned it here and there..

we're all Moscow born and raised.

*graphicgr8s* · 11-05-2009, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gooshin

I thought i mentioned it here and there..

we're all Moscow born and raised.

You might have and I forgot.

That explains a lot though.

**Damn Brit** · 11-05-2009, 12:03 PM

$7000 for a year? You're getting a bargain mate. I'm paying that in US dollars for a semester and my course is three semesters a year plus single classes recommended in the winter and summer breaks.

I'm dubious as to whether there would be any copyright issues if you posted the article. Have you looked at a physical copy of a Harpers to see if a copyright warning is included.

A way round it might be to post it in noted sections with your own discussion in between and then just credit the source material at the end.

Gooshin · 11-05-2009, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Damn Brit

$7000 for a year? You're getting a bargain mate. I'm paying that in US dollars for a semester and my course is three semesters a year plus single classes recommended in the winter and summer breaks.

Well i know that Medical students pay way more, so it depends.

My figure is for any run of the mill 3-4 year undergraduate program in a business/humanities/social sciences

Originally Posted by Damn Brit

A way round it might be to post it in noted sections with your own discussion in between and then just credit the source material at the end.

excellent suggestions.

the problem lies in Professor contracts and that a teacher will go to the highest bidder particularly if they have something worth saying.

thats why it would be very difficult to fully subsidize all the universities, because then probably all the professors would run stateside.

i know atleast highschool for me was free (including the books), i believe this has changed now..