Ft. Hood

[flippedgazelle]

Originally Posted by MRRiley

The Army would have to surrender jurisdiction for Holder to get involved. As a military member, Hasan is legally responsible first and foremost under the UCMJ, not U.S. Civil Codes. Obama COULD order the Army to surrender jurisdiction to the DOJ and a civilian court, but I do not believe he has the political capitol needed to do this without severely affecting his already tenuous relationship with the military.

Obama could simply quiety "suggest" that the death penalty be taken off the table.

[MRRiley]

Originally Posted by Ratmagiclady

"Even?" Obama could have signed stop-loss orders or just plain orders to end DADT, with popular support, and didn't.

Only reason to keep the shooter alive is cause 'martyring' him like he wanted isn't exactly a solution. Leavenworth would probably do as well. However, ...whatever, you know?

He hasn't ended DADT yet but he will...

And, regardless of whether he is executed or sentenced to multiple consecutive life sentences at Leavenworth, Hasan will never be a free man again.

[MRRiley]

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

Obama could simply quiety "suggest" that the death penalty be taken off the table.

He can suggest all he wants, but it is immaterial to the point I am trying to make. It is extremely unlikely that Obama and the DOJ will try to take prosecutorial jurisdiction away from the Army over this... Stranger things have happened, but I don't see them wanting to get in the middle of this.

[Ratmagiclady]

Originally Posted by MRRiley

He can suggest all he wants, but it is immaterial to the point I am trying to make. It is extremely unlikely that Obama and the DOJ will try to take prosecutorial jurisdiction away from the Army over this... Stranger things have happened, but I don't see them wanting to get in the middle of this.

Yeah, frankly, GWB 'suggested' at Ft. Hood while governor, that people listen to Bob Barr about making it so that Pagan troops not be allowed to practice their religion on base, making a statement that was taken as a 'suggestion' that some religions 'aren't religions' despite what the military said. (Which in this case was to tell then-governor Bush and Bob Barr to take a running flying one, but it came out in other issues like grave markers and chaplains.)

So, it wouldn't be the first time a CiC made a 'suggestion.'

I still count it unlikely any assumptions Obama would intervene over anything but foreign policy unlikely in the extreme. The LGBT community is darn irritated at him for *not* suspending DADT at the least by executive order while our troops still get really raw deals even if they're in mission critical jobs and (almost) everyone admits DADT is a farce.

That said, I really don't care whether he's executed or not, in this case, to be quite frank, as long as the shooter gets a fair trial. But it seems unlikely he didn't know where he was or what he was doing.

Again, we should be examining quite hard how it came to this, though, which is a different matter than being armchair executioners. The way I'm inclined to read this isn't really a story of some moustache-twisting terrorist sleeper, who went through med school for the purpose of pulling something like this, but rather a badly-disappointed once-idealist. Which isn't too uncommon in the healing professions, military or not. The religious angle, just as some kind of last way out. Doesn't change what happened, but does say something, that.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

I guess all I'll say is that I sincerely hope you'll find peace one day.

So flying jumbo jets into tall buildings and killing innocent civilians, gunning down unarmed soldiers, and bombing civilians worldwide has brought you peace? That is no peace, that is just plain sick logic.
Regards

[seacapt]

Originally Posted by deadwolfbones

Something tells me he wasn't picking and choosing his targets.

Killed how many? Wounded How many ? In how much time? With pistols. While people were running.
This guy aimed carefully and knew exactly what he was shooting at.

[flippedgazelle]

Originally Posted by Rupert

So flying jumbo jets into tall buildings and killing innocent civilians, gunning down unarmed soldiers, and bombing civilians worldwide has brought you peace? That is no peace, that is just plain sick logic.
Regards

What are you even talking about?

[flippedgazelle]

Originally Posted by seacapt

Killed how many? Wounded How many ? In how much time? With pistols. While people were running.
This guy aimed carefully and knew exactly what he was shooting at.

There was a report on CNN the night of the shooting that he seemed to be picking and choosing people he recognized, and shooting at them. Even sicker, really.

[straightshooter]

Originally Posted by MRRiley

And firing squad is still in the UCMJ... so I believe is hanging.

Mike

Mike, the military now uses lethal injection.

All executions at the USDB thus far have been by hanging, but lethal injection has been specified as the military's current mode of execution.

USDB = United States Detention Barracks aka Leavenworth

CW

[mickeyobe]

Originally Posted by flippedgazelle

In all fairness to Jasvox, I don't believe the info that Hasan shouted "Allahu Akbar!" as he oped fire was released at the time of his post.

I think, though, that it's pretty fair to assume that whether he fired on American soldiers because he hated them, or was deeply conflicted between is heritage/religion and his job, or if he snapped due to his treatment by fellow soldiers, his religious beliefs had a huge impact on his actions.

Let the immutable, unchangeable "Holy" Koran speak for its believers. ALL of its believers. ALL of Islam.
And let the uninformed, complacent Infidels ( ALL non Muslims ) check out "Jihad Watch" at Jihad Watch Director <director@jihadwatch.com> .

Mickey

In the Quran, Allah says lots of offensive things about the non-Muslims:

--are “worst of created beings” (98:6), are “miscreants” (2:99, 24:55), are the worst beasts in Allah’s sight (8:22, 8:55); (some Christians and/or Jews were) turned into “apes and/or pigs” (2:65-66, 5:58-60, 7:166); are like frightened donkeys chased by a lion (74:50-51), are like cattle—nay, worse than cattle (7:179, 25:44), are like dogs (7:176);

--they (idolators) are unclean (9:28); have uncleanness set upon them by Allah (10:100, 6:125); the hypocrites are unclean (9:95).

--“evil” is upon them (16:27), evil (2:91, 2:99); “wicked” (80:42, 9:125); the “wrong-doers” (42:45, 2:254, 5:45); evil-doers (42:44); evil-livers (5:59); they have no good in them (8:23); are “guilty” for disbelieving (45:31, 83:29); on the side of Satan and are fighting for him (4:76-77); of the party of Satan (58:19); Allah assigns them devils for protecting friends (7:27); they choose devils for protecting friends (7:30); are partisan against Allah (25:55); "enemy" (63:4); ungrateful traitors (31:32).

---“perverted” (63:4); disgraced lives (22:9); hypocrites (4:61); are ill (84:20); have a “diseased heart” (2:10, 9:125); in false pride and schism (38:2), in schism (2:137, 2:167);

--fools (2:130); foolish (6:35); deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171); deaf and dumb and in darkness, Allah sends them astray (6:39); have no sense (5:103, 10:100); a folk who do not understand (9:127); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111); losers who are deceived by Allah (2:6-7), and deceived by Satan (4:60);

--Allah sends devils against them to make them do evil (19:83); Allah cursed them for their unbelief (2:88-89),

--liars/they lie (2:10, 4:50, 6:28, 9:42, 16:39, 16:105, 23:90, 59:11); foolish and liars (7:66), liars and losers (58:18-19),

--“losers” (5:53, 6:31, 7:178-179); among the lowest (58:20); the lowest of the low (95:4-6)

[Parallax]

Originally Posted by mickeyobe

[/B]

Let the immutable, unchangeable "Holy" Koran speak for its believers. ALL of its believers. ALL of Islam.
And let the uninformed, complacent Infidels ( ALL non Muslims ) check out "Jihad Watch" at Jihad Watch Director <director@jihadwatch.com> .

Mickey

In the Quran, Allah says lots of offensive things about the non-Muslims:

--are “worst of created beings” (98:6), are “miscreants” (2:99, 24:55), are the worst beasts in Allah’s sight (8:22, 8:55); (some Christians and/or Jews were) turned into “apes and/or pigs” (2:65-66, 5:58-60, 7:166); are like frightened donkeys chased by a lion (74:50-51), are like cattle—nay, worse than cattle (7:179, 25:44), are like dogs (7:176);

--they (idolators) are unclean (9:28); have uncleanness set upon them by Allah (10:100, 6:125); the hypocrites are unclean (9:95).

--“evil” is upon them (16:27), evil (2:91, 2:99); “wicked” (80:42, 9:125); the “wrong-doers” (42:45, 2:254, 5:45); evil-doers (42:44); evil-livers (5:59); they have no good in them (8:23); are “guilty” for disbelieving (45:31, 83:29); on the side of Satan and are fighting for him (4:76-77); of the party of Satan (58:19); Allah assigns them devils for protecting friends (7:27); they choose devils for protecting friends (7:30); are partisan against Allah (25:55); "enemy" (63:4); ungrateful traitors (31:32).

---“perverted” (63:4); disgraced lives (22:9); hypocrites (4:61); are ill (84:20); have a “diseased heart” (2:10, 9:125); in false pride and schism (38:2), in schism (2:137, 2:167);

--fools (2:130); foolish (6:35); deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171); deaf and dumb and in darkness, Allah sends them astray (6:39); have no sense (5:103, 10:100); a folk who do not understand (9:127); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111); losers who are deceived by Allah (2:6-7), and deceived by Satan (4:60);

--Allah sends devils against them to make them do evil (19:83); Allah cursed them for their unbelief (2:88-89),

--liars/they lie (2:10, 4:50, 6:28, 9:42, 16:39, 16:105, 23:90, 59:11); foolish and liars (7:66), liars and losers (58:18-19),

--“losers” (5:53, 6:31, 7:178-179); among the lowest (58:20); the lowest of the low (95:4-6)

Yet it is often billed as the religion of "peace" and tolerance"

[mickeyobe]

"Yet it is often billed as the religion of "peace" and tolerance" .

I suspect that the Islamic definition of peace and tolerance may differ considerably from Webster and Oxford as do their definitions of many other English words such as hero, martyr, people, discrimination, law, courage, truce, honour, paedophile, agreement, promise, context, justice, freedom and the list goes on and on. Amazingly, their definition of any word or phrase may, conveniently, vary to suit a particular situation.

The same flexible standards apply to their translations of Arabic words into English.

Mickey

[Rupert]

Not to mention that it is impossible for a Muslim to lie to an infidel and have it considered a sin. So it becomes impossible to believe anything they say, as has been witnessed time after time in all of our dealings with them.
What I see here is another case of the defenders attempting to defend the indefensible. That is how we got in the mess we are in as a nation. Making too many wrongs right. Accepting too many compromises on justice and common sense. Making too many think they are "owed" something without personal sacrifice.
Regards!

[Ratmagiclady]

Originally Posted by Parallax

Yet it is often billed as the religion of "peace" and tolerance"

Well, yeah, Parallax, but I've heard myself called just about all those things Mickey quoted by Christians, too, and we all hear what Muslims can get called. That's no more comfortable for others than it is for you when the shoe's on the other foot, and it hardly matters who's 'worse' according to one point of view or the other. Saying 'they're worse!' doesn't actually justify anything.

Like anyone else with a 'holy book' thing going on, people still have to choose what they believe out of it and act on. (It's one of the reasons I couldn't believe in that kind of book that way, even if I didn't have my own thing going on. They seem to do more to sanctify what'd otherwise be *wrong* than actually promoting, never mind guaranteeing, any kind of especial goodness,) Neither religion exactly has the greatest track record, there, but we still all have to share a world.

Maybe we should embrace the best in each other, rather than encourage the worst. Maybe if we want people to be loyal to America, we should be trying to give them a *stake* in our Liberty rather than alienating them from it.

[Nass]

It'll be interesting to hear what he says once his statements on the matter come out. Until then, seems to me it's pretty pointless speculating about what his motive might or might not be and what this might or might not represent.