law gone mad?

[axl]

Hi guys,
I just came home, I have day off and was happy from nice wether and so I decided to go out. Since I live in central London I decided to go to Paddington station, I had in mind pictures of train stations and old trains with "fuzzy" traces of people and wanted to do something similar just with new trains
Just after I set up, and took test shot to check light and so, this guy came out of the blue asking me if I had permission and so on. Since I didn't have one I had to go. As I walked out I decided to go see Paddington canal, with nice new architecture, I hoped for couple of shots. But again, after checking the location and getting into position guy came again, telling me that for security reasons they don't allow to take pictures...
So that was the end of my today's shoot, nice isn't it?
Has the law gone really mad, to allow this?

[carpents]

Yeah, it's too bad about that. In my experience I've been approached by the police only once and it was very friendly and cordial. When asked if I had permission to be there, I asked in reply if I needed it - to which he said no and went on his way.

On the other hand, I've been berated by 'normal' people in ridiculous situations. I think one crazy lady (who was sub-dividing her land) thought I was taking pictures to stop the development or something. She was quite pissed that I was taking a picture of her fence post.
I also had a janitor ask me what I was doing in the Washington DC Metro. Luckily for me, I completely ignored him because I had no idea he was talking to me. As I was stepping on the train I heard him say something about 'Mr. I-Can't-Hear-Anything' and I realized he had been talking to me - at which point he very nearly got a universal gesture in reply.

This was what I was doing:


Stupid janitor.
--Sean

[aabram]

Originally Posted by axl

So that was the end of my today's shoot, nice isn't it?

... and that's the reason "post your pics" forum is filled with just bugs, plants and babies ;-)

But seriously, I think they've gone overboard with it. I'm actually considering small pocketable P&S cam just for street photography. Complete with Hawaii shirt and stupid smile it should provide me with more shooting options in situations where law officers and vigilant citizens tend to mistake me for a sniper because of my current camera...

[axl]

Originally Posted by carpents

Yeah, it's too bad about that. In my experience I've been approached by the police only once and it was very friendly and cordial. When asked if I had permission to be there, I asked in reply if I needed it - to which he said no and went on his way. ...

Lucky you,
the staff I was approached by was neither friendly nor cordial
Nice pic btw,
really like it

[MRRiley]

I like carpents approach..... "Do I need it (pemission that is)?"

Axl... Was the guy who ran you off in uniform or did he show credentials? Before I let someone run me off I make them prove they have the necessary authority (owner/rep on private property or law enforcement on public property).

We have a similar situation here in Reston, VA. The "Town Center" is actually private property even though it appears to be a typical "downtown" public space. Walk around with your P&S all day and no one will bother you about taking pictures. Bring out a serious camera and tripod and you get mobbed by "security" asking for permits or threatening to seize your camera (illegal by the way, for private security personnel... all they can do is ask you to leave or have you arrested by LE if you refuse).

[case sensitive]

I guess I'm very fortunate that at my favorite place to shoot, I am the law...

I usually shoot at a local park that I have been working on a development plan for. I think I have 2000+ shots just at this location. Every time I go, I see something new.

I would third carpents approach.

[little laker]

I guess that I'm lucky.
The city that I shoot most often in makes most of their money from tourism, so they don't say anything about snapping pictures.

If they did hassle me I'd just mention that my photography is displayed world wide and might help bring in more tourists

[axl]

Originally Posted by MRRiley

Axl... Was the guy who ran you off in uniform or did he show credentials?

Yep, both of them were propper security guys in uniforms, badges and stuff, I couldn't put up much of a fight (verbal of course) with them

[J.Scott]

A few years back I was cornered by security people on a local mine site. I was innocently snapping pictures of a couple of head frames when they pounced on me. They demanded to see ID and all but accused me of being a terrorist plotting to destroy their property! With some quick talking I convinced them that I was not a threat but I was told in no uncertain terms to leave and not come back! I was hundreds of yards away from any building, standing in a parking lot, yet they were plenty suspicious of my imagined covert activity.

We no doubt have the actions of '9-11' and the subsequent insidious but persistent development of public paranoia to thank for all this recent overly-ambitious, suspicious attitude toward taking photographs in public places.

Let's keep pushing this envelope, but be careful!

[-spam-]

Originally Posted by J.Scott

A few years back I was cornered by security people on a local mine site. I was innocently snapping pictures of a couple of head frames when they pounced on me. They demanded to see ID and all but accused me of being a terrorist plotting to destroy their property! With some quick talking I convinced them that I was not a threat but I was told in no uncertain terms to leave and not come back! I was hundreds of yards away from any building, standing in a parking lot, yet they were plenty suspicious of my imagined covert activity.

We no doubt have the actions of '9-11' and the subsequent insidious but persistent development of public paranoia to thank for all this recent overly-ambitious, suspicious attitude toward taking photographs in public places.

Its crazy isnt it? Honestly, if a terrorist wanted to take photos of a "target" they would dress up like a tourist and use a p&s camera. Why would they make it obvious by using a decent camera set up?

[palmor]

Originally Posted by -spam-

Its crazy isnt it? Honestly, if a terrorist wanted to take photos of a "target" they would dress up like a tourist and use a p&s camera. Why would they make it obvious by using a decent camera set up?

Neither, they would just go online to google earth or google street and get all the info they ever wanted (more then they could by just taking pictures at ground level).


John

[daphnia]

i was shooting up in sydney, the harbour bridge to be precise, nice big zoom on, just messing around... i was with my bf who of course has even bigger lenses...

we were approached by a security guard at one point who noticed me taking photos of the pylon arches, where some security cameras were visible.

he asked me for identification (which i actually wasn't carrying )- my partner was standing beside me at the time, snapping away directly at the security cameras - and the guard told me that unless i desisted he would hold me until the police arrived in order to ensure that "the law" has my details and can chase me up (incase a bomb goes off?)

the guard said nothing to my partner, who in the end had taken many more "offensive" photos of security cameras directly, right in front of the guard.

so... i suppose what i'm suggesting is that there's this overall sense that guards, police etc should be more vigilant, however in practicallity, its just d***heads in uniforms getting a power trip by picking on people they don't perceive as threatening. eg - me, a girl, and not my partner, 6'3" and fighting fit.

as for the theory of terrorists using slrs? i agree completely. they would be much more likely to use P&S, or even spy or phone equipment. or google earth, but google earth only gives you the birdseye... so you wouldn't be able to tell how high fences are, etc etc.

there was an incident down here in geelong, victoria last year. a group of amateur photographers got together to shoot some scenery down near the oil refinery. at sunset, these storage tanks light up and look like giant oranges sitting on the ground. they were spotted by security, although at no point did they break the law or trespass onto private property.

their number plates were taken down by security and all of the members were approaced at home several days later by the police, and questioned as to their activity.

let us just say - there was enough of an outrage that the acting premier for victoria got up and basically said the police were way out of line and that photographers should proudly pick up their cameras and take photos of whatever they wanted (without breaking laws )

how many other people reading this thread have been approached by members of the public telling them off for their photography.. i mean, for being a terrorist?

[JahJahwarrior]

I was snapping away in airports this past week while traveling and wondered quite often if I'd be approached. I never was. However, the Xray guy ALWAYS passed my bag through again. I think it was either the 500mm lense or the batteries I keep in a box....

...but I'm quite good at arguing (made it to nationals in debate this last year) and love to fight things to the end, so if someone told me to stop taking pictures, I'd politely refuse until they could prove I was breaking the law. At which point, I would gladly delete any pictures I had taken while I broke any laws, but I would never let them take my camera. If they did, I'd dial 4-1-1 and ask for a lawyer, any lawyer. Right there, on the spot. I'd ask for the officers name and tell the lawyer I want to file a lawsuit against the city/state/county, whatever, to the amount of a few thousand (so it'd be in small claims court) because this officer acting on behalf of this area has taken my property. I'd be a dick about it, basically. I figure it'd be an easy lawsuit to win and even if it wasn't I'd gladly spend years in court fighting it just for fun, as long as I thought I could win and make the city pay my legal fees

But like I said, if the officer can prove that I broke a law, then I'll serve my time, delete pictures, pay a fine, whatever. If I broke the law I deserve to be punished. If I didn't break the law and anything of mine was touched, then I'll make that cop and his bosses life a living hell until I am satisfied.

[little laker]

At least in the digital age if necessary it's easy to show them exactly what you snapped pictures of, although I do believe that you can insist upon a search warrant before you show them or delete a thing

[joele]

There was also the case at southbank (a tourist strip here in Melbourne) where they put up signs banning photography as we may be planning to plant bombs...

Needless to say there was enough of a public outcry that they took the signs down..