[laissezfaire]

So I currently have the K100D Super and have a DA* 50-135mm ordered and on the way... I was told to spend money on the glass and not on the body unless my skills developed to a point in which I needed more. I like this advice since there will be more and more technology every year, but good glass will remain good glass.

Having said that, I'm strongly considering upgrading to the K20 as I'm tired of going through the menus for everything and can't take the autofocus speed of the K100DS in low light which is my top gripe.

All of those out there with the K20 (and maybe even experience with Nikons), please help. Am I missing anything?

K20 Pros
- I have my budding Pentax lens collection (2) soon to be 3, including the 50-135.
- weathersealing and build construction, including metal mounts on all but the cheapest new lenses
- high MP sensor, although I honestly think 10 or 12 MP is fine. I guess CMOS is good though, the D90 also has this.

K20 Cons
- no WB button, Auto WB on Pentax is not so good indoors, thus this is even more critical. If I had to pick my #2 gripe about my K100DS, it's WB.
- no low light AF assist, I'm surprised more DSLRs don't have this, even my $100 P&S has this
- slower shutter speed

Nikon D90 pros
- I just tried this out. The feature set is impressive, especially the 920k-dot (VGA) screen and interesting movie mode.
- IQ is tested to be equal to the D300
- focus speed is very fast, 4.5 fps is nice
- lens based IS seems to perform better than sensor based - is this true?
- it has the low light focusing light assist

Nikon D90 cons
- Feels cheaper, a bit more plasticy
- Lenses are more expensive and when similarly priced have plastic mounts, even for mid priced ones (e.g. the DA* 50-135 was $750 vs. plastic Nikon 18-200 mm VR at $640)
- selling for list price, but competitive at $999 base only.

Overall, I guess, my limited experience tells me that the pentax has great, fairly priced glass, even for the enthusiast like me. Nikon has some very nice technology in their cameras but offer cheap glass for the consumer at high prices.

Every single camera salesperson I run into says, "forget Pentax, get a Canon or Nikon". It's quite amazing.

Finally, the Pentax message board and community is incredible, and the level on knowledge on the Nikonians board doesn't come close. it may be in that board, I just can't find it!

[Canada_Rockies]

Pentax deliberately lets the white balance go orange in tungsten because it makes the landscapes at sunset much more the way we see them, I think. I shoot RAW, leave the camera always on auto WB, and fix it when it is incorrect in post processing. Occasionally I will switch to tungsten, when people want to look on the LCD during the shoot.

Pentax lenses are generally very good to superb, with a few duds, just as with the other companies. A week ago I shot two periods of a hockey game (at midnight!) with the k10d and DA* 50-135 just to see if I could still shoot hockey. I was pleasantly surprised at how well the combination did.

I have taken shots with the M 400/5.6 and had some pics in the local weekly. Tripod, frame the goal at the opposite end of the rink from the top of the stands, press button on remote cable when things looked interesting. That's the lazy man's way of getting a shot or two for the newspaper. I enjoyed the 50-135 a lot more.

I never once turned the continuous frame mode on. The only time my cameras take more than one shot with a single button press is in auto bracketing. I learned sports on a completely manual - no meter in the camera even - and learned to anticipate the action.

I did find that for my shooting style, the multi point auto switching works better than center point only. I tend to lead the players, and got a large number of perfectly focused boards and player benches when I used the center only during the first period. It worked much better during the second period with the odd referee getting focus rather than the players, but generally a much higher hit rate with the auto select. As the period went on, I found the flickering red signals in the viewfinder would work around a small group of points, usually on the players I was trying for. It works for me.

Gooshin and I have had one exchange on the topic of burst mode. He is in emphatically in favour, I am emphatically not. To each his own.

[Stratario]

Just wanted to say that the WB in K20D is far superior to K100DS. Just leave it on WB and forget about it. If occasionally you start shooting indoors and you see on the first shot that the WB does not feel right, you can tweek the colours. While tweeking, the last picture that you took will automatically come on the screen and you can see the colours changing as you are tweeking the WB. That way you get it 100% accurate to your eyes.

[kenyee]

K20 Cons
- no low light AF assist, I'm surprised more DSLRs don't have this, even my $100 P&S has this

Nikon D90 pros
- lens based IS seems to perform better than sensor based - is this true?

The K10D/K20D uses the popup flash for the low light assist (just like Canon does w/ their 30D/40D/50D and XTI/XSI). The D90/D300/D700 uses a bright white LED next to the grip.
That said, I think the D300/D700 focuses much faster than my K10D in low light, but they both kick in the assist lamp much quicker than the K10D kicks in the popup flash assist lamp...

Lens based IS is better than sensor based in long lenses IMHO...bigger IS motor to compensate for more movement.

[Okami]

I for one think that Movie mode for DSLRs might be a useful feature but the movie mode on the D90 isn't really. Look around at the jello issue.

If i were to judge the two cameras right now I would definitely take the K20D over the D90. Fully weather sealed is a great thing to have outdoors and you'll be surprised how often you might need it. Great prices for lenses that are also weather sealed, SDM, and all lenses are IS enabled because its in the body.

Unless you are really looking into the next level of cameras (5d mk II, D700 and above) I do not see any good reason to not choose Pentax. You will have a much more flexible system with the money you spend on Pentax.

[Stratman]

Lens based IS might be better ,( how much better I don't know ) but you have to pay for it EVERY time you get a new lens !! And, if you want to use old glass, you get no IS....., with Pentax you get it on EVERY lens you attach to the camera....

[laissezfaire]

The K10D/K20D uses the popup flash for the low light assist (just like Canon does w/ their 30D/40D/50D and XTI/XSI). The D90/D300/D700 uses a bright white LED next to the grip.
That said, I think the D300/D700 focuses much faster than my K10D in low light, but they both kick in the assist lamp much quicker than the K10D kicks in the popup flash assist lamp...

Lens based IS is better than sensor based in long lenses IMHO...bigger IS motor to compensate for more movement.

So I can set the K20 up so that the popup flash will help with low light assist but no flash is used?

Also, I don't remember seeing an ISO button. That is also nice in low light.

[palmor]

So I can set the K20 up so that the popup flash will help with low light assist but no flash is used?

Also, I don't remember seeing an ISO button. That is also nice in low light.

Not sure if this meets your "ISO button" requirement but I just attach ISO to one of the dials so I can switch ISO on the fly... no menu needed.


John

[Marc Sabatella]

- no WB button, Auto WB on Pentax is not so good indoors, thus this is even more critical. If I had to pick my #2 gripe about my K100DS, it's WB.

You could save yourself an awful lot of aggravation by shooting RAW and not worrying abut WB.

- slower shutter speed

What do you mean by this? Does the D90 have max shutter speed of more than 1/4000. If so, great, but how often is that really an issue that can't be solved in other ways (eg, stop down, nd filter)?

[Ole]

K20 Cons
- no WB button

WB is just two button-clicks away: Fn-left arrow

The OK button doubles as an ISO button, or you can assign ISO to one of the e-dials as a previous poster mentioned.

You also have the Sv mode which is program mode with ISO by default assigned to one of the e-dials.

[cpopham]

Lens based IS might be better ,( how much better I don't know )

One thing to bear in mind is that when Canon and Nikon were originally doing in lens IS, Pentax was only claiming the K100's SR was effective to 3 stops only. They now claim 4-stops for the K20.

Perhaps the claim that in lens IS is better was true at one time, but is not any longer, or perhaps it was and still is.

I suspect we'll never find out for sure.

[soccerjoe5]

- no WB button, Auto WB on Pentax is not so good indoors, thus this is even more critical. If I had to pick my #2 gripe about my K100DS, it's WB.

I used to have a D80 and it had a nice WB button. However what I love about the K20D is that you can "check" each WB setting. I LOVE the custom WB. Just go to custom and you shoot a neutral color. You can even just zoom into a spot that's neutral in the photo and use that. Perfect WB.

[soccerjoe5]

What I like is that there's SR in ALL the lenses, even the primes Good luck with that in the Nikon system. (Not to sound like I'm bashing it, I love Nikon. If I wasn't using a Pentax, I'd be using a Nikon)

If the focusing speed were CRITICAL for work (money earning), then I would seriously look into Nikon. However, I'm sure Pentax will update their AF in the near future, we just have to be patient

[Arpe]

Unless you NEED the extra FPS and (maybe) faster focussing, then I'd go for the K20D, especially as you already have 3 lenses. I have the K20D and the Nikon D90 is a very tempting camera.

[nulla]

WB is just two button-clicks away: Fn-left arrow

The OK button doubles as an ISO button, or you can assign ISO to one of the e-dials as a previous poster mentioned.

You also have the Sv mode which is program mode with ISO by default assigned to one of the e-dials.

I asigned one dial to the iso and it replaced the shots remaining... however remaing shots appear for a brief few seconds after each shot.

I use auto white and shoot raw.. no problems.


Also I jumped straight into the K20 as my first digital DSLR after being a Nikon film man years back and find it a great camera that more than caters for my needs in photography....... the Pentax glass is magic and I am a proud 100% pentax only lens person