Should Pentax scrap the K110D and replace K100D with K1000D and K100D2?

[CSpronken]

Should Pentax scrap the K110D and replace K100D with K1000D and K100D2?

If I look at the Pentax camera page on Flickr: Flickr: Camera Finder: Pentax
and look at the number of K100D's vs. K110D's (134,633 vs. 7,328/ 18-1) I get the impression that the K100D significantly outsells the K110D. Now I know this isn't a solid marketing research, just an indication.

Keeping that I mind I think that Pentax' entry level DSLR also should have IS for the following reasons:

1 People seem to buy them more (K100D vs. K110D)
2 The cost advantage of having IS in body is more important to entry level buyers than for advanced users.
3 It's important that the first camera people buy of your brand is as sattisfying as possible.

So the K110D and K100D should be replaced with the stabilized 6mp K1000D and K100D2.

K1000D:

Basically a K100D but:
- $50-100 cheaper
- No top LCD (little more compact)
- Larger buffer
- SDM support
- RAW+JPG

K100D2:

A K100D but:
- $50-100 more
- Backlit top LCD
- Much larger buffer
- Pentaprism
- Li-ion battery (AA for the K1000D)
- SDM support
- Hyperprogram (2 dials)
- RAW+JPG
- No scene modes (that's left to the K1000D)

Optional:
- Customizable Fn button
- Better auto WB
- Better looking menus
- Orientation sensor
- Dedicated AF assist
- The K10D's stronger IS

Both would be very good camera's for a good price, where the K1000D should be as compact as possible without compromising ergonomics and the K100D2 would also be a very nice replacement for the DS. The 6mp might be a problem in the market so they might also make a 10mp version along side just like Nikon did with the D40x. I think this line up would make most use of Pentax' advantage of in body IS especially in the entry market and generally be excellent photographic tools for the price.

[Adam]

IMO Pentax should keep the current two models and add an improved SLR to the lineup, such as the K150D or K200D. Based on their previous poor marketing decisions, though, I doubt the future DSLR lineup will snap of out their habit of releasing two similar bodies (one being a stripped-down version). Here are a few examples:

K100D vs. K110D
*ist DS2 vs. *ist DL2
SuperProgram vs. ProgramPlus
ME vs. MG & MV

The K100D/K110D are already about as small as DSLRs get, so why make one of them even smaller by the removing the top LCD? That would lower its status as an SLR even more! Also, I personally think that using pentamirrors is a joke, so they'd better stop! As for resolution improvements, I think bumping up the 6MP's up to 8MP would make them more popular.

A full-frame pro DSLR would also be nice, but I know it'll never happen:

If any of you have the *ist D, have a look at the mirror. You'll notice that it's a full-frame mirror as opposed to the small one fit onto all the other Pentax DSLRs. This suggests that Pentax originally considered producing an FF camera, but not any more

[Alvin]

Mo, yeah I noticed that mirror when I was considering the D back in December. In hindsight, I still don't know which camera (K100D or istD) I would have had a better time with.

Anyway back to the OP. I see Pentax releasing a 10MP entry level cam, slotted between the K100D and K10D. As to what it would be named, I don't know - K100D Super?

SR would be the same unit used in the K10D. Body would be the same as the K100D.

I could just as easily eat these words when the new cam does come out.

[arbutusq]

I think they pretty much have to release a 10mp K100d type camera because the market is pushing that way. I wonder how much longer the 6mp sensor will be made.

[Finn]

Personally, I'd like to see a stripped-down K10D -- 10MP, weather sealing, DNG support, with none of the other bells and whistles (i.e. those stupid "scene" modes). Just aperture priority, shutter priority, and full manual modes. And fix and simplify that white balance! Actually, how about a camera that doesn't even need it?

Basically, I just want a bulletproof, (mostly) manual DSLR. Is that too much to ask?

Hmm -- all of a sudden I have a hankering to break out the old Spotmatic...

[CSpronken]

Originally Posted by Mo

IMO Pentax should keep the current two models and add an improved SLR to the lineup, such as the K150D or K200D.

The K100D2 I propose could be seen as an improved K100D ie. K150D/K200D.

Originally Posted by Mo

The K100D/K110D are already about as small as DSLRs get, so why make one of them even smaller by the removing the top LCD? That would lower its status as an SLR even more!

Well the DL was smaller and lighter still (prolly because it didn't need to house the IS). Perhaps they can regain some of that compactness by removing the TOP LCD and save a few bucks as well perhaps. Lack of top LCD wouldn't be a problem for the target group such a K1000D would go after, just take a look at the D40 and 400D. The K100D is compact enough for me, it's just to make it more succesfull in the market.

Originally Posted by Mo

Also, I personally think that using pentamirrors is a joke, so they'd better stop!

That's what you get on the K100D2 a nice pentaprism. The K1000D doesn't have it to save weight and cost.

Originally Posted by Mo

As for resolution improvements, I think bumping up the 6MP's up to 8MP would make them more popular.

2 problems with that sollution:

1 There isn't such a sensor available (assuming Canon's isn't on offer)
2 It would be an ineffective compromise, most people don't need more than 6mp, everything more gives just drawbacks. For the people that do need more than 6mp or for others that think they need more you can still offer a 10mp version.

Now that I think of it what would perhaps be a good idea and serve as large a market as possible with relatively little cost having more or less the current 2 bodies but each in a 6 and 10mp version. So say a K600D 6mp and K100D2 10mp entry level models and K60D 6mp and K10D 10mp.

Originally Posted by arbutusq

I think they pretty much have to release a 10mp K100d type camera because the market is pushing that way. I wonder how much longer the 6mp sensor will be made.

Well if Nikon keeps the D40, I think that won't be a problem. If they don't than it would be less sure.

[tcdk]

Originally Posted by CSpronken

2 It would be an ineffective compromise, most people don't need more than 6mp, everything more gives just drawbacks. For the people that do need more than 6mp or for others that think they need more you can still offer a 10mp version.

It's not about what people need, it's about having more: "A rich man is somebody who makes 100$ more a year than his wifes sisters husband" - somebody in the latest Scientific American.

Which is why we have a MP race.

[codiac2600]

On a personal level I don not feel that Pentax should replace the K100d or the K10d before spring of next year only on the merit that I would have to save again and by another camera

On a technical/marketing bias I would say yes they should and the new cameras should only improve on what they have right now. K100 v2 with a few customizable buttons and more settings to play with that if you wanted to venture forth you don't "have" to spend the extra cash on the K10 or it's succesor.

On the K10 to a v2 I would say a high end kit with a prime or * lens would be a good start. The next would be the option to make the images super sharp or super soft wether the operator chooses to and to increase the SR ability one more stop or two, which may be asking a lot, but it would kill the competition. An option for 2 or 3 user programmed modes and some programmable buttons that allow super on the fly changes like to choose different program lines and a ISO boost incase the lighting changes drastically you can one touch boost the ISO. On the talk of a new sensor I would say either go with what you have again or if it's going to be a different one it better be something very benefitial like a multi layered blah blah shabang because changes should be made only if it's going to be lasting and just upping the MPixels isn't that benefitial. Also something I would love to see is an option to choose what megapixel you want in RAW and only use a smaller portion of the sensor if possible to elimate certain high megapixel artifacts.

Oh well all a dream but I don't need change, but if it comes I'll be ready.

[RiceHigh]

I fully second your views and I do think that two new models should be made to replace the K100D whereas Pentax should forget about the K110D which few people are interested in.

Your idea of having a more compact DSLR as entry level and an enhanced version of the K100D is exactly what I think, too!

Originally Posted by CSpronken

Should Pentax scrap the K110D and replace K100D with K1000D and K100D2?

If I look at the Pentax camera page on Flickr: Flickr: Camera Finder: Pentax
and look at the number of K100D's vs. K110D's (134,633 vs. 7,328/ 18-1) I get the impression that the K100D significantly outsells the K110D. Now I know this isn't a solid marketing research, just an indication.

Keeping that I mind I think that Pentax' entry level DSLR also should have IS for the following reasons:

1 People seem to buy them more (K100D vs. K110D)
2 The cost advantage of having IS in body is more important to entry level buyers than for advanced users.
3 It's important that the first camera people buy of your brand is as sattisfying as possible.

So the K110D and K100D should be replaced with the stabilized 6mp K1000D and K100D2.

K1000D:

Basically a K100D but:
- $50-100 cheaper
- No top LCD (little more compact)
- Larger buffer
- SDM support
- RAW+JPG

K100D2:

A K100D but:
- $50-100 more
- Backlit top LCD
- Much larger buffer
- Pentaprism
- Li-ion battery (AA for the K1000D)
- SDM support
- Hyperprogram (2 dials)
- RAW+JPG
- No scene modes (that's left to the K1000D)

Optional:
- Customizable Fn button
- Better auto WB
- Better looking menus
- Orientation sensor
- Dedicated AF assist
- The K10D's stronger IS

Both would be very good camera's for a good price, where the K1000D should be as compact as possible without compromising ergonomics and the K100D2 would also be a very nice replacement for the DS. The 6mp might be a problem in the market so they might also make a 10mp version along side just like Nikon did with the D40x. I think this line up would make most use of Pentax' advantage of in body IS especially in the entry market and generally be excellent photographic tools for the price.

[RiceHigh]

But Pentax top officials say in the PMA one or two days before that they won't do that again! Instead, they will make two totally new DSLRs to replace the K100D and the K10D, probably by July and Nov this year, respectively:

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/p...-strategy.html

Originally Posted by codiac2600

On a personal level I don not feel that Pentax should replace the K100d or the K10d before spring of next year only on the merit that I would have to save again and by another camera

On a technical/marketing bias I would say yes they should and the new cameras should only improve on what they have right now. K100 v2 with a few customizable buttons and more settings to play with that if you wanted to venture forth you don't "have" to spend the extra cash on the K10 or it's succesor.

On the K10 to a v2 I would say a high end kit with a prime or * lens would be a good start. The next would be the option to make the images super sharp or super soft wether the operator chooses to and to increase the SR ability one more stop or two, which may be asking a lot, but it would kill the competition. An option for 2 or 3 user programmed modes and some programmable buttons that allow super on the fly changes like to choose different program lines and a ISO boost incase the lighting changes drastically you can one touch boost the ISO. On the talk of a new sensor I would say either go with what you have again or if it's going to be a different one it better be something very benefitial like a multi layered blah blah shabang because changes should be made only if it's going to be lasting and just upping the MPixels isn't that benefitial. Also something I would love to see is an option to choose what megapixel you want in RAW and only use a smaller portion of the sensor if possible to elimate certain high megapixel artifacts.

Oh well all a dream but I don't need change, but if it comes I'll be ready.

[RiceHigh]

Originally Posted by Mo

IMO Pentax should keep the current two models and add an improved SLR to the lineup, such as the K150D or K200D. Based on their previous poor marketing decisions, though, I doubt the future DSLR lineup will snap of out their habit of releasing two similar bodies (one being a stripped-down version). Here are a few examples:

K100D vs. K110D
*ist DS2 vs. *ist DL2
SuperProgram vs. ProgramPlus
ME vs. MG & MV

Whilst I agree with your view, Pentax indeed do have a simple reason to do so, i.e., to save design and manufacturing costs but at the same time they can produce "more" models (so that it looks as if they have a lineup), but actually all these are just variants.

The K100D/K110D are already about as small as DSLRs get, so why make one of them even smaller by the removing the top LCD? That would lower its status as an SLR even more! Also, I personally

Actually, Pentax are capable of making very small and compact SLRs without removing the top LCD, my MZ-30 and the MZ-60 etc. are good examples.

Nonetheless, I think the top LCD is an essential feature and I won't buy any DSLR without it.

think that using pentamirrors is a joke, so they'd better stop! As for resolution improvements, I think bumping up the 6MP's up to 8MP would make them more popular.

The Pentax mirrors of the K100D is not that bad actually. It is sharp, bright and with very good colors and it makes the camera body *light*. The difference is mainly about the 0.85X mag Vs the 0.95X which while the difference can be seen but I don't think it will cause much troubles.

A full-frame pro DSLR would also be nice, but I know it'll never happen:

If any of you have the *ist D, have a look at the mirror. You'll notice that it's a full-frame mirror as opposed to the small one fit onto all the other Pentax DSLRs. This suggests that Pentax originally considered producing an FF camera, but not any more

I bet the ONLY reason for the *ist D to have a FF mirror is that Pentax simply used the film SLR spare parts! Just like when Canon used Full Pentaxprism in that 10D (ditto the Nikon D100) and full mirrors too but they just masked out the finder to make the 1.5/1.6X crop!

Actually, Pentax was the first one to make a new Pentaxprism for the 1.5X APS-C DSLR! in their *ist D, which has the biggest magnification but yet the most compact size, as it was newly designed.

[RiceHigh]

Originally Posted by RiceHigh

The Pentax mirrors of the K100D is not that bad actually. It is

Ooops. I have made a funny typo. The "Pentax mirrors" should be read as "Pentamirrors" here! However, I think it is also correct as Pentax originally come from the word PentaPrism where the Prism was replaced by the "X" :-)

[klopus]

Originally Posted by Finn

Personally, I'd like to see a stripped-down K10D -- 10MP, weather sealing, DNG support, with none of the other bells and whistles (i.e. those stupid "scene" modes).

Hmmm... K10D (as opposed to every other DSLR in this price range) doesn't have any stupid "scene" modes.

[CSpronken]

Looks like the K110D is indeed scrapped and the K100D super looks a bit like the K1000D I proposed. Wonder if their will be something like the K100D2 (named differently of course) between the K100D super and K10D.