Anyone own a 100D + 20D

Alfisti · 05-15-2009, 07:26 AM

I am sure someone does.

Just wondering, is your 100D sharper (as in WAY sharper) at pixel level? If I down size my 20D files to 6MP I get similar images but 1:1 the 20D is just MILES AND MILES from the 100D.

*dadipentak* · 05-15-2009, 07:30 AM

I have both but I haven't done this sort of comparison.

Bactman · 05-15-2009, 07:30 AM

I have both the 100D and 20D, but haven't tried to resize the images to compare. Something seems odd about having to reduce the pixel count of one to compare against the optimal output of the other. Interesting, though. Maybe I'll try it out at some point.

Alfisti · 05-15-2009, 07:34 AM

To clarify, before any downsizing is done, as in just looking at the 100% images, does the 100D strike you as considerably sharper before NR or sharpening is applied?

Gooshin · 05-15-2009, 07:36 AM

which lens?

though at pixel level the K20D's larger resolution effectivly washes out what you are seeing compared to the K100D.. is that what you are experiencing?

Alfisti · 05-15-2009, 07:41 AM

35 f/2 at f/5 so it can handle the extra pixels. Frankly I suspect a focus issue but when I hand hold the lens is bang on at f/2 accurracy wise so i am a bit miffed.

*OregonJim* · 05-15-2009, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Alfisti

35 f/2 at f/5 so it can handle the extra pixels. Frankly I suspect a focus issue but when I hand hold the lens is bang on at f/2 accurracy wise so i am a bit miffed.

If by that you mean it looks tack sharp in the viewfinder, you could have a misaligned focus screen in the K20D. If the focus screen and image sensor aren't exactly equal in distance from the lens, one or the other wil be OOF.

Alfisti · 05-15-2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by OregonJim

If by that you mean it looks tack sharp in the viewfinder, you could have a misaligned focus screen in the K20D. If the focus screen and image sensor aren't exactly equal in distance from the lens, one or the other wil be OOF.

No I mean if I pick up the camera and shoot at a piece of paper with text it NAILS the line I focused on. When i mount it on a tripod (SR off) and point it at a bookshelf with books it produces images WAY softer than the 100D.

I am hoping it is a focus issue as it can be fixed in the 20D but it does not appear to be the case, it's either just the way the 20D is (unlikely looking at the dpreview review raw images compared to their K100D raw images). I may have a faulty unit which is an immense pain in the arse.

KjetilH · 05-15-2009, 10:34 AM

I can't really explain it, but I guess it has something to do with the "anti-moire" filter. The K100D shared its sensor with, among many others, the Nikon D70, which also makes its pictures tack sharp.
The price for this is that, you guessed right, moire patterns in different places, especially when used with flash.

Of course, I don't know how big the difference is. Pretty shure you would have to call yourself "pixelpeeper" in order to notice the difference if given the above. Anyways, I can't compare them directly (my girlfriend got my k100D when I bought a K20D), but I guess the difference isn't very big. The K20D is indeed capable of being very sharp.

Alfisti · 05-15-2009, 12:12 PM

OK here is a sample of what i mean .......

- Camera up on tripod with 35 f/2 @ f/5

- Remote release, best of 3 images by each camera selected

- Shot RAW, imported to Lightroom with zero processing (no NR, no sharp)

- Export to CS3, 100% crops selected @ 540 * 810 pixels

- Smart sharpen 80% before converting to JPG and saving just once

- No other processing applied

This is what i get, now to be fair in other areas of the image the 20D is a little better but in other areas it is worse.

20D @ 14MP

100D @ 6MP

*65535* · 05-15-2009, 12:16 PM

20d is out of focus.

Alfisti · 05-15-2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by 65535

20d is out of focus.

That i smy thought but if I pick up the camera and shoot anything, say a flower or a series of text ona sheet of paper, the AF is BANG on, as in perfect.

*65535* · 05-15-2009, 12:27 PM

if you could, try MF to see if it gets better. The k100d was a damn good cam, but i refuse to believe the huge increase in megapix yields LESS resolution

**Marc Sabatella** · 05-15-2009, 12:41 PM

So maybe the camera focused on a different part of the bookshelf than you wanted. That's certainly common enough, and pretty much unavoidable.

The real test would be to shoot a subejct where *something* is guaranteed to be in focus. Like newspaper on an angle. Find the sharpest area of the K100D and comapre it to the sharpest area of the K20D photo.

Also, the difference you are seeing could potentially be in the ACR's profile for the two cameras - would be interesting to see hwo the camera JPEG's compare, or the RAW files as processed by PPL or some other program.

BTW, you mention using the remote release - but are you also using the timer to get MLU? Might as well remove that variable form the equation too.

Oh - I'd also check to seeing if PS provides different options for the resizing, and try them out. There *are* different algorithms that can be used, and they vary in their effectiveness. Also, when downsizing images, it is common to want to apply some degree of sharpening. Another interesting test would be to *upsize* the K100D image to match the K20D.

Alfisti · 05-15-2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by 65535

if you could, try MF to see if it gets better. The k100d was a damn good cam, but i refuse to believe the huge increase in megapix yields LESS resolution

I just cannot do it, 9 times from 10 the AF gets closer than i do when manually focussing unless i am REALLY close to the subject.