.DNG compatibility problem?

*keithlester* · 05-04-2007, 11:45 AM

I have upgraded to Serif PhotoPlus11, which can read .DNG files, although as yet it cannot read .PEF from the K10D. If I produce .DNG files in camera, they load into PhP11 with some extraneous, non-image data corruption down two edges of the frame.

However, if I run Adobe Raw Converter on .PEF produced in camera, the resulting .DNG files load perfectly well with no corruption issues.

I am using V1.11.

Does anybody know if there are issues with .DNG files, and whether they have been addresed in the new firmware? I am reluctant to upgrade at the moment, since I dont require to work tethered.

davemdsn · 05-04-2007, 12:51 PM

DNG is only as universal as the individual camera that creates it. In other words, the DNG code allows for camera specific information. This means that the software has to update to include code for every camera that uses the DNG format, just like it has to update for updates to proprietary file formats. The easy work around is the one you are already using - use the Adobe converter to turn PEF into DNG.

klopus · 05-04-2007, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by davemdsn

DNG is only as universal as the individual camera that creates it. In other words, the DNG code allows for camera specific information. This means that the software has to update to include code for every camera that uses the DNG format, just like it has to update for updates to proprietary file formats. The easy work around is the one you are already using - use the Adobe converter to turn PEF into DNG.

Sorry, but that's not exactly true. That DNG spec "allows for camera specific information" doesn't mean it requires it. Moreover the key information like camera specific tonal curve can be defined in a standard way (that's what K10D actually does).

DNG is speced in a such a way that it's fairly possible to produce a "standard" DNG file that properly coded application can render without any prior knowledge of what produced it (e.g. K10D, Leica M8, Adobe DNG converter, etc.). That's actually was the case with k10D - when it just arrived older versions of ACR and Beta Lightromm could easily import K10D DNG files though both apps were released well before K10D and that camera wasn't on their supported list.

So returning back to OP's question. The onus here on application he uses to read K10D DNG files. It probably just has a bug in rendering certain "valid" DNGs irrespective to the specifics of the camera which produced it.

windowseat · 05-04-2007, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by klopus

Sorry, but that's not exactly true. That DNG spec "allows for camera specific information" doesn't mean it requires it. Moreover the key information like camera specific tonal curve can be defined in a standard way (that's what K10D actually does).

DNG is speced in a such a way that it's fairly possible to produce a "standard" DNG file that properly coded application can render without any prior knowledge of what produced it (e.g. K10D, Leica M8, Adobe DNG converter, etc.). That's actually was the case with k10D - when it just arrived older versions of ACR and Beta Lightromm could easily import K10D DNG files though both apps were released well before K10D and that camera wasn't on their supported list.

So returning back to OP's question. The onus here on application he uses to read K10D DNG files. It probably just has a bug in rendering certain "valid" DNGs irrespective to the specifics of the camera which produced it.

I hope that is true because I have produced a few thousand DNG files with my K10D and Adobe said it would be supported forever

jnorth · 05-04-2007, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by windowseat

I hope that is true because I have produced a few thousand DNG files with my K10D and Adobe said it would be supported forever

Forever in the computer realm is not quite as long as forever elsewhere. But the ability to carry those images forward for many years to come should not be impossible, it just might require a batch conversion or two to a newer format. DNG could very well be the easiest to carry forward and convert down the road. We have file converters now, and I am convinced that there will be a converter or three to convert from DNG when the need arises.

davemdsn · 05-04-2007, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by klopus

Sorry, but that's not exactly true. That DNG spec "allows for camera specific information" doesn't mean it requires it. Moreover the key information like camera specific tonal curve can be defined in a standard way (that's what K10D actually does).

DNG is speced in a such a way that it's fairly possible to produce a "standard" DNG file that properly coded application can render without any prior knowledge of what produced it (e.g. K10D, Leica M8, Adobe DNG converter, etc.). That's actually was the case with k10D - when it just arrived older versions of ACR and Beta Lightromm could easily import K10D DNG files though both apps were released well before K10D and that camera wasn't on their supported list.

So returning back to OP's question. The onus here on application he uses to read K10D DNG files. It probably just has a bug in rendering certain "valid" DNGs irrespective to the specifics of the camera which produced it.

Did I say it was required? Let's see.... no, not there..... nope, I don't see where I said required. When the K10 first came out I was able to open my camera created DNG files, minus a couple key pieces of meta data. Why was it missing? Because Pentax choose to put that info in a non standard place. They weren't required to do so, but they did. That info reappeared with ACR3.7 and ACR4 because now Adobe knows where to look.

Lowell Goudge · 05-05-2007, 07:23 AM

i found the same problem with Corel PSP XI.

I have been waiting also for Corel to update PSP XI with pentax K10 support, to the point of sending them sample photos.

Their response so far is that sending them this information does not gaurantee thay will upgrade the program to read pentax.

I think they no longer want my business after 5 years and 3 versions of the program

Dana G · 05-05-2007, 09:31 AM

The point of the DNG specification is that any application that reads DNG can open your files even if it's new and the application authors have not yet tested the K10D.

I was opening DNG in ACR well before there was specific support. After Adobe tested the camera, some of the tone curves had been changed from the generic DNG. But if I had a job, and needed images for it, I could use the K10D and make my own tone curves.

Adobe created and owns TIFF, and doesn't charge for it. There seem to be few problems with TIFF, and it's been around for years. I suspect eventually DNG will become a de facto standard just like TIFF did, because it's all documented and available for anyone to read.

klopus · 05-05-2007, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Dana G

The point of the DNG specification is that any application that reads DNG can open your files even if it's new and the application authors have not yet tested the K10D.

Moreover DNG spec is open to everybody and free of royalties. That's in stark contrast to proprietary RAW formats like PEF, NEF, CR2, etc. where with each new model 3rd party RAW converters basically have to reverse engineer each and every format.

Originally Posted by Dana G

Adobe created and owns TIFF, and doesn't charge for it. There seem to be few problems with TIFF, and it's been around for years. I suspect eventually DNG will become a de facto standard just like TIFF did, because it's all documented and available for anyone to read.

Actually structurally DNG is based on TIFF.