A higher high-end from Pentax? Please?

Dubious Drewski · 11-03-2009, 09:31 PM

I don't want anyone to take this thread too seriously. But something's been bothering me for a while.

I wish Pentax offered a line of professional level bodies. The current highest-end body is the K7. A wonderful, masterfully designed machine, but with some focus-tracking and high-iso issues.

I think the success of the K10, and the innevitable success of the K7 will get some cashflow into Pentax's coffers, and maybe we'll start to see some really high-end bodies produced. Oh, how I would LOVE to have to option of buying a super highly-engineered Pentax body that could rival the Canon 1 series or the Nikon D_ series. Charge an appropriate price and just manufacture it already, Pentax! I know you're technologically capable! The k10 and K7 are building a consumer base to support it. Just do it already! As a photograpger who makes his living using Pentax gear, I'd be the first to buy. And I know a few people personally who would also jump on it.

And what's going on with the Kx's awesome high ISO noise performance? Can we please get a K7 Super with the Kx sensor installed? That would negate the K7's biggest downside.

Sorry for the rant.

flippedgazelle · 11-03-2009, 09:38 PM

So, basically, you're asking for a FF Pentax. There's quite a few of those threads around...

Dubious Drewski · 11-03-2009, 09:46 PM

Actually, no. FF is nice, but not necessary by any means. What I'm asking for is the ability to track motion reliably and the ability to comfortably shoot iso 3200 in fast-paced, low-light wedding situations.

Given that this technology exists in other bodies, I don't feel it's too much to ask.

catsman50 · 11-03-2009, 09:46 PM

I'm sure they will do it. Just a matter of time but for now I'm very happy with Pentax. They hold there own with much more expensive cameras on the market

*Ash* · 11-03-2009, 09:49 PM

A K-7 with a K-x sensor inside... There's a few threads discussing that also...

But I feel a similar way.
Something within me wants to see Pentax succeed in setting a top standard in each class of camera, K-x is there now for entry level APS-C, but also a high end APS-C and/or FF, and a top dMF cam. The K-7's close but doesn't quite make it in AF and high ISO performance - this has been appreciated for some time.

We will have to 'enjoy waiting', though - it's not going to happen overnight, and Canikon will just keep pumping out the new models. I personally don't have any problem with this, but would certainly like to see Pentax bring out a robust higher-end FF dSLR matching the D700 and 5DMkII specs. I'm sure many here would go for such a cam...

flippedgazelle · 11-03-2009, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dubious Drewski

Actually, no. FF is nice, but not necessary by any means. What I'm asking for is the ability to track motion reliably and the ability to comfortably shoot iso 3200 in fast-paced, low-light wedding situations.

Given that this technology exists in other bodies, I don't feel it's too much to ask.

OK, I misunderstood, since you mentioned the Canon 1 series, which is FF.

I wonder if Pentax has any ambition at all regarding AF performance?

rawr · 11-03-2009, 10:25 PM

My view is that the next body from Pentax will be a K7 iteration or evolution, with various incremental improvements to video, AF, menus etc and a new 14MP Sony sensor in it. The sensor will probably be the same as the sensor in the new Sony A550, which has very decent high-ISO performance and IQ, apparently.

The K-x shares the same sensor as the Sony A500, so I'd be surprised if the Pentax engineers haven't already had a very close look at the 14MP Sony sensor. I bet there are already K7s bodies in the Pentax labs with the 14MP Sony sensor stuck inside.

Dubious Drewski · 11-03-2009, 10:30 PM

The day they release a K7 with that Sony sensor is the same day I sell my K7 and order the upgraded version. There won't be a single hour of hesitation.

The K7 is so near perfect. This would just put it over the top.

*smc* · 11-03-2009, 10:37 PM

No brainer.....LXd.....followed up with the 67d....I could use all my current glass..

rawr · 11-03-2009, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by smc

No brainer.....LXd.....followed up with the 67d....I could use all my current glass..

Yeah, even Nikon is doing it: D300 then D300s, D3 then D3s. Both incremental updates bodywise except with extra video and high ISO features. I reckon Pentax will do the same.

*res3567* · 11-04-2009, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by rawr

Yeah, even Nikon is doing it: D300 then D300s, D3 then D3s. Both incremental updates bodywise except with extra video and high ISO features. I reckon Pentax will do the same.

Member? K100D, K100DS?

dylansalt · 11-04-2009, 04:09 AM

Pentax will have to up their upgrade path speed much faster to compete with the other two.

The Canon 7D is a giant killer and have a huge range of affordable lenses even the IS L ones.

To discount that the Nikon D700 is not a "tour de force" and soon will be available for much less as other upgrades are produced.

Not withstanding it's brilliance, small from factor, weather sealing, OIS the K7 has not raised much interest over here.

The new 7D is the same price as the K7 - has incredible resolution,lowlight performance-phenominal af and video.

The only way Pentax is going to raise the heads of new serious amateur and pro photographers is to produce a "dslr of all dslr's" (aps-c & ff)and a full line of F4 pro long zoom/fixed lens, aps-c and full frame.

Dyls

PS - I still love my K10D, but my next upgrade must blow it outta the water - the K7 does not do that quite yet.

howieb101 · 11-04-2009, 04:54 AM

Well most reviews of Canon 7D don't rate its high iso if you bother to include 'detail'. If removing detail and noise simultaneously then the 7D is probably better but its expensive when only aps-c.

RMabo · 11-04-2009, 07:42 AM

Sony uses very heavy noise processing for both JPEG's and RAW for the 550, just as they did with the 350. Sure Pentax could do the same, they dit it - to some level - with the K20D. But with the K-7, Pentax deiced to not NR process the RAW-files, leaving the RAW to be more, well, RAWish.

Sure Pentax could do the same heavy image processing for the top model as Sony is doing, but why would they? I believe that Pentax made the assumption that professional photographers wants untouched RAW-files, that professional photographers makes their own post processing.
Judging from this forum, many photographers wants the RAW to be heavy image processed. But then, why shoot RAW at all if it is processed? Processing the Sony-style to RAW files kills the RAW file, it is no longer a true RAW-file. It is a processed RAW-file, and then you process it even more in the RAW-converter. This means you loose control and you also loose image data.

And you talk about sensors here and there, and forgets the importance of image processing and the image pipeline.

A K-7 with the K-x sensor, but still with the subtle Pentax approach to RAW processing in the K-7, would mean K-7 image quality, not K-x. A K-7 with the K-x processing, but still with the Samsung sensor, would mean a result closer to the K-x.

The sensor is just one of the issues here, the major thing is the processing. Here Pentax and Sony thinks very differently for the top end models. Just look as the top model Sony A900, very heavy processing going on in there. To the RAW-files. Yes.

Pentax has showned that they don't believe in heavy processing of RAW-files, for their top model. So that is why the K-7 has a different approach to this than all other Pentax DSLR's.
(Pentax did believe in processing to RAW-files in the K20D and K10D, but the K-7 aims higher...).

noblepa · 11-04-2009, 08:12 AM

To truly compete with Canikon in the professional arena is an unbelieveably expensive proposition. Not only must they produce a pro-level camera; they must convince buyers that it is as good as the best C & N have to offer, if not better. They also must produce a full line of 10 - 15 pro-level lenses. That means extremely high quality, very fast lenses. And the lenses must appear the same day the camera does, not six months or a year later.

They would have to get Pentax back on brick and mortar store shelves in a very big way. This means that in any city of more than 50,000 people, you can walk into a camera store and find a full, not a token, selection of Pentax cameras, lenses and accessories.

Pros need and expect a different level of support. That means that they need to be able to walk into a store and buy or rent a lens they need. When their camera breaks, they need to be able to walk into a camera store and walk out with a loaner or rental camera, not FedEx it to Arizona. Their own camera must be back in their hands in two or three days.

I believe that Pentax has chosen to pursue a different niche in the camera market. They seem to be going after the entry level buyer with cameras like the K-m/K-2000 and the K-x. The K20D and K7 appeal to advanced, value conscious buyers, but while I'm sure some pros use them, they are not really pro-level cameras. Furthermore, Pentax seems to be assuming, rightly or wrongly, that B & M stores are a dwindling resource that is not going to embrace Pentax any time soon. For that reason, they seem to be concentrating on mail order and online sales.

But then, what do I know?