Pentax K-x mirror slap and/or SR blur problem

**firefly** · 02-22-2010, 11:09 AM

Hello all,

I've been reading of supposed problems with either mirror slap or poor SR algorithms causing a double image and/or blurred image on the K-x. I'm also aware that sometimes a small percentage of users make a lot of noise. I'm just looking to see how many of you have noticed this problems with your K-x. I'm just trying to get a rough idea of the ratio of bad units to good units out there in the wild, assuming this is a problem to begin with.

And yes, I'm certainly aware that this is not scientific and that there is bias in the community I am polling etc., still I'd like to get the rough numbers.

Please only vote if you have, or have had, a K-x.

pxpaulx · 02-22-2010, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by firefly

I'm also aware that sometimes a small percentage of users make a lot of noise.

This is a much bigger issue on dpreview than it is around here, simply because people here are actually realistic. Yes, a handful of users have noticed something is wrong with the SR (nothing I have read would indicate that whatever is in fact potentially wrong has anything to do with mirror slap, it would be the SR that has a problem) at certain shutter speeds, most have not (including myself).

In reference to the part of your post I quoted, have you also noticed that all the recent threads started about this issue have been one post wonders, not by people actually experiencing the problem?

**firefly** · 02-22-2010, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by pxpaulx

In reference to the part of your post I quoted, have you also noticed that all the recent threads started about this issue have been one post wonders, not by people actually experiencing the problem?

I haven't noticed that no. Most likely because I read about this problem in dpreview forums, as you had guessed.

I already ordered the K-x and am not overly worried about its performance once it arrives. However, after reading all of the doom and gloom on dpreview forums, I was very curious in seeing how many people here are actually experiencing problems. I'd be surprised if the numbers were any greater than maybe 5%... but I suppose we'll see.

**firefly** · 02-22-2010, 12:27 PM

Hi all,

I've email a moderator to unlock the poll results, even if you haven't voted. This is kind of a useless thread without that feature. Sorry about that.

pxpaulx · 02-22-2010, 12:32 PM

I think there are one or two here who have experienced the problem, but from what I have read here it is such a limited shooting scenario that it rarely occurs anyway. And it can be fixed by turning SR off. I don't think you have anything to worry about at all, as nice as polls are on this subject, even a forum of this size is still just a small sampling.

Jesus · 02-22-2010, 12:45 PM

Not to high jack this thread , but , I was in a electronics store in Phoenix last weekend , got to handle several cameras including the K-X and "wow" , the volume of sound from the mirror slap shocked me and the weight too , compared to the others .

Pay no attention to this post .

**firefly** · 02-22-2010, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by pxpaulx

I don't think you have anything to worry about at all, as nice as polls are on this subject, even a forum of this size is still just a small sampling.

Very true, I don't think this would hold to any statistical standard. Just the fact that I'm polling a Pentax forum would invalidate it immediately. Still, I think it is still good for building some anecdotal evidence, as useless as it is

Originally posted by Jesus

Not to high jack this thread , but , I was in a electronics store in Phoenix last weekend , got to handle several cameras including the K-X and "wow" , the volume of sound from the mirror slap shocked me and the weight too , compared to the others .

Pay no attention to this post .

I hear ya... the k-x was very pleasant to hold, a very small package indeed. I just hope it is able to balance some of the larger lenses nicely. All input is welcome in this thread by the way, I don't believe there is such a thing as hijacking... just tangents

distudio · 02-22-2010, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by pxpaulx

I think there are one or two here who have experienced the problem, but from what I have read here it is such a limited shooting scenario that it rarely occurs anyway. And it can be fixed by turning SR off. I don't think you have anything to worry about at all, as nice as polls are on this subject, even a forum of this size is still just a small sampling.

I think you're being a bit harsh, some K-x bodies do have problems and it's not just one or two. The conditions that seem to make the "problem" obvious is shooing vertical at around 1/100 with SR on using a wide lens, hardly a limited scenario particularly for a landscape shooter.

rawr · 02-22-2010, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by distudio

..The conditions that seem to make the "problem" obvious is shooing vertical at around 1/100 with SR on using a wide lens, hardly a limited scenario particularly for a landscape shooter.

I think the issue with this whole discussion is that there is nothing obvious about the problem at all. You could ask 5 people what the 'problem' is, and under what circumstances it becomes visible, and what causes it, and you would get (at least) five different responses.

Contributing to this issue is the (welcome) fact that the K-x is attracting a lot of SLR newbies. Unfortunately many of these new users think that (a) mirror slap is something unique to the K-x, not a feature of all SLR's, and that (b) technologies like SR are able to guarantee blur free images under all scenarios (even where subject movement, not camera movement, is involved

, in the case of some dpreview posters).

**firefly** · 02-22-2010, 07:50 PM

Thanks to all who have voted and commented.

**firefly** · 02-23-2010, 07:40 AM

Keep the feedback coming, larger sample equals smaller confidence interval, i.e. better results.

Surprising numbers so far though.

pxpaulx · 02-23-2010, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by distudio

I think you're being a bit harsh, some K-x bodies do have problems and it's not just one or two. The conditions that seem to make the "problem" obvious is shooing vertical at around 1/100 with SR on using a wide lens, hardly a limited scenario particularly for a landscape shooter.

Not trying to be harsh, just not using smilies.

None-the-less, the scenario you have indicated is actually kind of limited (outdoors would typically use a faster shutter than that), what constitutes a 'wide-lens' is arbitrary, and as I previously stated SR CAN be turned off, negating the issue entirely. It is not as though SR is needed at 18mm with a shutter speed of 1/100th, right?

I am not saying that nobody has experienced the issue, but it is easily negated (though I certainly agree it shouldn't NEED to be negated) by turning SR off in this particular situation. I would have returned mine for another camera (another K-x) if this happened to me.

er1kksen · 02-23-2010, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by pxpaulx

Not trying to be harsh, just not using smilies.

None-the-less, the scenario you have indicated is actually kind of limited (outdoors would typically use a faster shutter than that), what constitutes a 'wide-lens' is arbitrary, and as I previously stated SR CAN be turned off, negating the issue entirely. It is not as though SR is needed at 18mm with a shutter speed of 1/100th, right?

I am not saying that nobody has experienced the issue, but it is easily negated (though I certainly agree it shouldn't NEED to be negated) by turning SR off in this particular situation. I would have returned mine for another camera (another K-x) if this happened to me.

To be honest, I run into that sort of situation a lot. I have a tendency to shoot wide verticals in sunrise/sunset or dramatic (weathery) lighting, which often nests the shutter-speed "sweet spot" (particularly when your body is straining due to being contorted to get the camera into position for just the right foreground-background composition) in the 1/100th to 1/200th region. Just slow enough to keep ISO low and aperture decent, but fast enough that you can avoid camera shake. In this situation with the K-x, if the lighting is dimming and I know I'll need the SR as it gets dimmer, I usually stop down the aperture or lower the ISO to bring the shutter speed down below 1/80th, where the SR seems to work just fine and shots are generally sharp. If the light is increasing I just leave the SR off.

However, the SR issue shows up for me at the given shutter speeds with the camera at any angle, at any focal length. So it's kind of a moot point. I needed my K-x for a trip that started right after I received it, so returning it on the basis of a minor, workable issue really wasn't feasible. While I was there, it got banged into a rock face I was climbing, leaving a crack in the front panel (now sealed). There goes the warranty. Oh well. As I've said, it's not a huge problem.

Originally posted by Jesus

Not to high jack this thread , but , I was in a electronics store in Phoenix last weekend , got to handle several cameras including the K-X and "wow" , the volume of sound from the mirror slap shocked me and the weight too , compared to the others .

My old K1000 was a hell of a lot louder/harsher, and somehow I managed to get sharp handheld shots as low as 1/15th (I think the weight helped).

**firefly** · 02-24-2010, 09:07 PM

So... the K-x arrived today. Took some 100 captures today, reviewed. Many in the 60-125 shutter zone, no ghosting or double image. I voted no.

RolloR · 02-24-2010, 09:16 PM

I think if you've got fairly steady hands, that's where the SR problem comes in lol.

If you've got steady hands, just turn off SR, expecially with wide-angle focal lengths.

At wide focal lengths (~28mm or wider), I find SR useful at 1/10 or slower shutter. Anything faster and it will have a 'chance' to blur/double the image, especially with steady hands, although not all the time. With long focal length (80mm or more) lenses it works ok.

I don't think it's a "problem." It's just how the thing works

The mirror slap sound is natural, since K-x is a very small and light camera. And different cameras have different shutter sounds. My personal favorite shutter sound is Nikon D90 since it's got some "bass" to it lol

View Poll Results: Have you noticed blurred image and/or double image with your K-x
Yes	74	34.91%
No	138	65.09%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

02-22-2010, 11:09 AM	#1
firefly Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Brunswick Photos: Albums Posts: 200	Pentax K-x mirror slap and/or SR blur problem Hello all, I've been reading of supposed problems with either mirror slap or poor SR algorithms causing a double image and/or blurred image on the K-x. I'm also aware that sometimes a small percentage of users make a lot of noise. I'm just looking to see how many of you have noticed this problems with your K-x. I'm just trying to get a rough idea of the ratio of bad units to good units out there in the wild, assuming this is a problem to begin with. And yes, I'm certainly aware that this is not scientific and that there is bias in the community I am polling etc., still I'd like to get the rough numbers. Please only vote if you have, or have had, a K-x.

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02-22-2010, 11:30 AM	#2
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by firefly I'm also aware that sometimes a small percentage of users make a lot of noise. This is a much bigger issue on dpreview than it is around here, simply because people here are actually realistic. Yes, a handful of users have noticed something is wrong with the SR (nothing I have read would indicate that whatever is in fact potentially wrong has anything to do with mirror slap, it would be the SR that has a problem) at certain shutter speeds, most have not (including myself). In reference to the part of your post I quoted, have you also noticed that all the recent threads started about this issue have been one post wonders, not by people actually experiencing the problem?

02-22-2010, 11:43 AM	#3
firefly Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Brunswick Photos: Albums Posts: 200 Original Poster	Originally posted by pxpaulx In reference to the part of your post I quoted, have you also noticed that all the recent threads started about this issue have been one post wonders, not by people actually experiencing the problem? I haven't noticed that no. Most likely because I read about this problem in dpreview forums, as you had guessed. I already ordered the K-x and am not overly worried about its performance once it arrives. However, after reading all of the doom and gloom on dpreview forums, I was very curious in seeing how many people here are actually experiencing problems. I'd be surprised if the numbers were any greater than maybe 5%... but I suppose we'll see.

02-22-2010, 12:27 PM	#4
firefly Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Brunswick Photos: Albums Posts: 200 Original Poster	Hi all, I've email a moderator to unlock the poll results, even if you haven't voted. This is kind of a useless thread without that feature. Sorry about that.

02-22-2010, 12:32 PM	#5
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	I think there are one or two here who have experienced the problem, but from what I have read here it is such a limited shooting scenario that it rarely occurs anyway. And it can be fixed by turning SR off. I don't think you have anything to worry about at all, as nice as polls are on this subject, even a forum of this size is still just a small sampling.

02-22-2010, 12:45 PM	#6
Jesus Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sedona Az Posts: 216	Not to high jack this thread , but , I was in a electronics store in Phoenix last weekend , got to handle several cameras including the K-X and "wow" , the volume of sound from the mirror slap shocked me and the weight too , compared to the others . Pay no attention to this post .

02-22-2010, 01:42 PM	#7
firefly Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Brunswick Photos: Albums Posts: 200 Original Poster	Originally posted by pxpaulx I don't think you have anything to worry about at all, as nice as polls are on this subject, even a forum of this size is still just a small sampling. Very true, I don't think this would hold to any statistical standard. Just the fact that I'm polling a Pentax forum would invalidate it immediately. Still, I think it is still good for building some anecdotal evidence, as useless as it is Originally posted by Jesus Not to high jack this thread , but , I was in a electronics store in Phoenix last weekend , got to handle several cameras including the K-X and "wow" , the volume of sound from the mirror slap shocked me and the weight too , compared to the others . Pay no attention to this post . I hear ya... the k-x was very pleasant to hold, a very small package indeed. I just hope it is able to balance some of the larger lenses nicely. All input is welcome in this thread by the way, I don't believe there is such a thing as hijacking... just tangents

02-22-2010, 02:07 PM	#8
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by pxpaulx I think there are one or two here who have experienced the problem, but from what I have read here it is such a limited shooting scenario that it rarely occurs anyway. And it can be fixed by turning SR off. I don't think you have anything to worry about at all, as nice as polls are on this subject, even a forum of this size is still just a small sampling. I think you're being a bit harsh, some K-x bodies do have problems and it's not just one or two. The conditions that seem to make the "problem" obvious is shooing vertical at around 1/100 with SR on using a wide lens, hardly a limited scenario particularly for a landscape shooter.

02-22-2010, 02:40 PM	#9
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by distudio ..The conditions that seem to make the "problem" obvious is shooing vertical at around 1/100 with SR on using a wide lens, hardly a limited scenario particularly for a landscape shooter. I think the issue with this whole discussion is that there is nothing obvious about the problem at all. You could ask 5 people what the 'problem' is, and under what circumstances it becomes visible, and what causes it, and you would get (at least) five different responses. Contributing to this issue is the (welcome) fact that the K-x is attracting a lot of SLR newbies. Unfortunately many of these new users think that (a) mirror slap is something unique to the K-x, not a feature of all SLR's, and that (b) technologies like SR are able to guarantee blur free images under all scenarios (even where subject movement, not camera movement, is involved , in the case of some dpreview posters).

02-22-2010, 07:50 PM	#10
firefly Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Brunswick Photos: Albums Posts: 200 Original Poster	Thanks to all who have voted and commented.

02-23-2010, 07:40 AM	#11
firefly Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Brunswick Photos: Albums Posts: 200 Original Poster	Keep the feedback coming, larger sample equals smaller confidence interval, i.e. better results. Surprising numbers so far though.

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02-23-2010, 08:41 AM	#12
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by distudio I think you're being a bit harsh, some K-x bodies do have problems and it's not just one or two. The conditions that seem to make the "problem" obvious is shooing vertical at around 1/100 with SR on using a wide lens, hardly a limited scenario particularly for a landscape shooter. Not trying to be harsh, just not using smilies. None-the-less, the scenario you have indicated is actually kind of limited (outdoors would typically use a faster shutter than that), what constitutes a 'wide-lens' is arbitrary, and as I previously stated SR CAN be turned off, negating the issue entirely. It is not as though SR is needed at 18mm with a shutter speed of 1/100th, right? I am not saying that nobody has experienced the issue, but it is easily negated (though I certainly agree it shouldn't NEED to be negated) by turning SR off in this particular situation. I would have returned mine for another camera (another K-x) if this happened to me.

02-23-2010, 08:57 AM	#13
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	Originally posted by pxpaulx Not trying to be harsh, just not using smilies. None-the-less, the scenario you have indicated is actually kind of limited (outdoors would typically use a faster shutter than that), what constitutes a 'wide-lens' is arbitrary, and as I previously stated SR CAN be turned off, negating the issue entirely. It is not as though SR is needed at 18mm with a shutter speed of 1/100th, right? I am not saying that nobody has experienced the issue, but it is easily negated (though I certainly agree it shouldn't NEED to be negated) by turning SR off in this particular situation. I would have returned mine for another camera (another K-x) if this happened to me. To be honest, I run into that sort of situation a lot. I have a tendency to shoot wide verticals in sunrise/sunset or dramatic (weathery) lighting, which often nests the shutter-speed "sweet spot" (particularly when your body is straining due to being contorted to get the camera into position for just the right foreground-background composition) in the 1/100th to 1/200th region. Just slow enough to keep ISO low and aperture decent, but fast enough that you can avoid camera shake. In this situation with the K-x, if the lighting is dimming and I know I'll need the SR as it gets dimmer, I usually stop down the aperture or lower the ISO to bring the shutter speed down below 1/80th, where the SR seems to work just fine and shots are generally sharp. If the light is increasing I just leave the SR off. However, the SR issue shows up for me at the given shutter speeds with the camera at any angle, at any focal length. So it's kind of a moot point. I needed my K-x for a trip that started right after I received it, so returning it on the basis of a minor, workable issue really wasn't feasible. While I was there, it got banged into a rock face I was climbing, leaving a crack in the front panel (now sealed). There goes the warranty. Oh well. As I've said, it's not a huge problem. Originally posted by Jesus Not to high jack this thread , but , I was in a electronics store in Phoenix last weekend , got to handle several cameras including the K-X and "wow" , the volume of sound from the mirror slap shocked me and the weight too , compared to the others . My old K1000 was a hell of a lot louder/harsher, and somehow I managed to get sharp handheld shots as low as 1/15th (I think the weight helped).

02-24-2010, 09:07 PM	#14
firefly Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Brunswick Photos: Albums Posts: 200 Original Poster	So... the K-x arrived today. Took some 100 captures today, reviewed. Many in the 60-125 shutter zone, no ghosting or double image. I voted no.

02-24-2010, 09:16 PM	#15
RolloR Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 264	I think if you've got fairly steady hands, that's where the SR problem comes in lol. If you've got steady hands, just turn off SR, expecially with wide-angle focal lengths. At wide focal lengths (~28mm or wider), I find SR useful at 1/10 or slower shutter. Anything faster and it will have a 'chance' to blur/double the image, especially with steady hands, although not all the time. With long focal length (80mm or more) lenses it works ok. I don't think it's a "problem." It's just how the thing works The mirror slap sound is natural, since K-x is a very small and light camera. And different cameras have different shutter sounds. My personal favorite shutter sound is Nikon D90 since it's got some "bass" to it lol