Paris, Ben, and "those" rumours;) - Page 4

nosnoop · 10-28-2007, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by and

I guess the usefullness of LV depends on the implementation,

Yes, I agree. If it is like Live View as implemented by Olympus, I just can't see myself using it at all (no AF, no metering without the "mirror flip", and the deal breaker was the huge lag in taking a shot).

vinzer · 10-29-2007, 02:53 AM

Enthusiasts will eventually find good use for live view, and I feel this is the crowd that takes a chance on Pentax the most, along with budget-conscious people. As well, it creates marketing buzz, so I would think Pentax will eventually put live view in the next iteration of the K10D.

With the deal with Samsung in place, Pentax can probably now afford to put higher performance memory chips on their cameras, so Tom's want of having better buffer performance will probably be addressed, though I'm not too sure about a big jump in FPS count as well as AF that's as fast as the ones Nikon and Olympus claims on their new pro bodies.

With Pentax focusing more on IQ, I'm with others in thinking that Pentax would improve DR in their upcoming models. I figure that they would also focus more on the entry-level market, as well as the enthusiasts market before plunging into the pro level, where they still lack the long glass to match the two giants. I still think the rebadging of the Tamron is a good move, and Pentax should look to do more of those, so their own lens factories can focus on delivering the *'s and Limiteds. While I would want entry and mid-level lenses done in Pentax's own plants, I'm okay with a compromise, as long as Pentax selects only the better 3rd party lenses to rebadge.

All in all, Pentax looks to be on the up and up, so I, personally, won't be ditching the system just yet. In any case, I've no money to jump onto one of the big two with their lens-based stabilization. I've been spoiled by in-body stabilization, and between Olympus and Sony, I'd rather stay with Pentax.

One final thought. Pentax would be wise to keep the existing user base happy by still being the industry leader in value, and this strategy would even earn them more users. Any time one could buy a D200-level body for nearly the same price level as the 400D, they'll have a growing market base. You could even knock a few dollars off if you choose to buy a Samsung, if you're not really brand-loyal. I would think Pentax still earns royalties from sales of the GX-10.

Richard Day · 10-29-2007, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by *isteve

...(snip)... I would love the shutter from the *istD - it was sooo quiet by comparison. I guess they have to add liveview just to compete but I will probably never use it.

Even so the istD shutter was a noisy vibrating beast compared to the MZ-S, I hope the new body goes beyond the istD and nearer to the MZ-S shutter, it was really sweet.

codiac2600 · 10-29-2007, 11:45 PM

Hmm, interesting stuff going on here.

I think photographers like Tom Lusk will be very happy with the upgrade to the K10D as well as it's bigger brother from all the specs that have been unofficially announced.

It's a tough time right now with all these new cameras hitting the market and making the temptation so strong it's nearly heartbreaking. Too bad some of the new cameras are soo disappointing and others are wonderous... on paper at least. The Nikon equipment I've yet to be impressed by after playing with some of there new wares but some of the whizbang features are a shining beacon of things to come.

This shadow of doubt for Pentax is starting to pull a lot of people from what matters most and that is no camera is perfect and just because you want some feature over another doesn't make camera B that much better. Sure Canon AF is fast and can shoot 6.5 fps, but as Mr. Phil from DPR stated, the K10D still takes a better picture, "for a camera thats not in the same class as the 40D." Wait till you see the new pro Pentax and drool over the features, it's worth the wait if you have investment in good glass because nothing will touch it for the price. Sure it has less pixels than the 1DS MKIII and won't shoot at 10FPS like the 1dMKIII, but it will take a better picture, just like Pentax always has.

What matters most is what will make you happy in the end, but why be like the rest of the "happy" users in the zoo that take pictures of lions with 10FPS?

Sorry, being a camera salesman has made me almost Pentax militant because there is no better camera in the class except in FPS and AF speed. It will be the same next year with the new bodies, but minus 1 frame here and 2 frame there.

**roentarre** · 10-30-2007, 12:25 AM

Not a common sight to see a camera salesman promoting pentax products!

But you are definitely right about image quality of k10d being very impressive

Mats · 10-30-2007, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by codiac2600

Hmm, interesting stuff going on here.

I think photographers like Tom Lusk will be very happy with the upgrade to the K10D as well as it's bigger brother from all the specs that have been unofficially announced.

It's a tough time right now with all these new cameras hitting the market and making the temptation so strong it's nearly heartbreaking. Too bad some of the new cameras are soo disappointing and others are wonderous... on paper at least. The Nikon equipment I've yet to be impressed by after playing with some of there new wares but some of the whizbang features are a shining beacon of things to come.

This shadow of doubt for Pentax is starting to pull a lot of people from what matters most and that is no camera is perfect and just because you want some feature over another doesn't make camera B that much better. Sure Canon AF is fast and can shoot 6.5 fps, but as Mr. Phil from DPR stated, the K10D still takes a better picture, "for a camera thats not in the same class as the 40D." Wait till you see the new pro Pentax and drool over the features, it's worth the wait if you have investment in good glass because nothing will touch it for the price. Sure it has less pixels than the 1DS MKIII and won't shoot at 10FPS like the 1dMKIII, but it will take a better picture, just like Pentax always has.

What matters most is what will make you happy in the end, but why be like the rest of the "happy" users in the zoo that take pictures of lions with 10FPS?

Sorry, being a camera salesman has made me almost Pentax militant because there is no better camera in the class except in FPS and AF speed. It will be the same next year with the new bodies, but minus 1 frame here and 2 frame there.

Always interesting to read posts from people with some kind of of Pentax insight, had to go back and check what was on Tom Lusk´s wishlist

. Found faster AF and more fps and I think that Pentax has to deliver on those features. It will never be priority 1 though, Pentax will deliver performance that keep them competitive but not leaders in machinegun photographing. For me lowlight AF performance improvements should be a high priority.

For me there is no shadows of doubt on that the new dslr´s will be worth waiting for. Canon, Nikon and Sony users better enjoy their few months of leadership because if all signs are true they will soon suffer a year of being behind. If all signs are coming true Pentax will have done a remarkable turning around from being "the 1 year late" guy to becoming the leader in the segments they are competing in.

Interesting that you mention upgrade to K10D AND a bigger brother, would the bigger brother be the rumoured pro level K1D? or will we see a K10D super and a K20D?

And please continue being a Pentax "militant", there should be more salesmen like you that actually know something about the equipment.

/Mats

Arpe · 10-30-2007, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by codiac2600

...no better camera in the class except in FPS and AF speed. It will be the same next year ...

That's disappointing to hear as I want to get more into sports photoing, and I am hanging out to upgrade my Ds, but whether or not it's to another Pentax we'll just have to wait and see.

thibs · 10-30-2007, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Arpe

That's disappointing to hear as I want to get more into sports photoing, and I am hanging out to upgrade my Ds, but whether or not it's to another Pentax we'll just have to wait and see.

Why? Would you sincerely expect Pentax being able to go against Nikon/Canon on FPS speed just now? Would even buy the camera since there's lack of long pro lens anyway?

codiac2600 · 10-30-2007, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mats

Always interesting to read posts from people with some kind of of Pentax insight, had to go back and check what was on Tom Lusk´s wishlist . Found faster AF and more fps and I think that Pentax has to deliver on those features. It will never be priority 1 though, Pentax will deliver performance that keep them competitive but not leaders in machinegun photographing. For me lowlight AF performance improvements should be a high priority.

For me there is no shadows of doubt on that the new dslr´s will be worth waiting for. Canon, Nikon and Sony users better enjoy their few months of leadership because if all signs are true they will soon suffer a year of being behind. If all signs are coming true Pentax will have done a remarkable turning around from being "the 1 year late" guy to becoming the leader in the segments they are competing in.

Interesting that you mention upgrade to K10D AND a bigger brother, would the bigger brother be the rumoured pro level K1D? or will we see a K10D super and a K20D?

And please continue being a Pentax "militant", there should be more salesmen like you that actually know something about the equipment.

/Mats

There is def two bodies in the works and the K10D is going to be Pentax's base model and all it's replacements will follow in that pattern.

Actually the only other salesman that matters in our store is also a militant Pentax user and it's why our store outsells almost every other store in the US when it comes to the Pentax line. We actually started a thread on the Pro store forum talking about why others stores either haven't embraced Pentax or just don't sell it. If a tiny store in a town of less than 200,000 people can sell over 200 K10D bodies a year, why can't others? Right now we had a meeting talking about how we need to sell Canon because it's getting harder to sell a 40D with the K10D around and it's true.

The math is this, since the K10D has come out our multi-million dollar hole in the wall store has sold just K10D's at a 2 to 1 to all Canon bodies sold during the same time frame and we are still the largest Canon dealer in the area. Almost 90% of people walk in wanting a camera have exactly $1000 to spend so it's up to 4 cameras, the XT, XTi, K100d Super and the K10D. No one in the right mind buys an XT, the XTi is a great starter camera except for the crappy kit all plastic kit lens, but for the exact same price as a XTi after mail-in rebate you get a way better camera in the K10D.

Pentax doesn't have to be machinegun fast to sell cameras, but it does have to have one thing and thats value and it will for the prices the new bodies should hit the market for. Sure being 1 FPS and 2 FPS slower in each body may seem like a bad thing, but they will make up for those downers with a couple features you can't live without and some lenses you've seen before and others you'll want to have. Remember this, Hoya makes nearly all the glass blanks for all the big name camera manufacturers and Pentax is now a subsidiary of Hoya and the cost of moving those blanks to Pentax's factory is going to be at cost. No one has really brought up that fact and I'm surprised so I guess I'll do it. Pentax has also gotten tons of semi-conductor parts from Samsung, which is one of the largest companies in that area, hence the trade for camera technologies. Another point no one brought up, don't know why not? Pentax signed a huge deal with the largest maker of gyroscopic properties a few months back to improve their shake reduction technology.

The pieces of the puzzle are there and here is Hoya's stance, "Pentax will be the next earnings driver under Hoya's skillful management!"

Originally Posted by Arpe

That's disappointing to hear as I want to get more into sports photoing, and I am hanging out to upgrade my Ds, but whether or not it's to another Pentax we'll just have to wait and see.

You won't be dissapointed, you'll be very happy indeed, just a single FPS on one body and 2 on another which is still super fast and faster than right now.

codiac2600 · 10-30-2007, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by thibs

Why? Would you sincerely expect Pentax being able to go against Nikon/Canon on FPS speed just now? Would even buy the camera since there's lack of long pro lens anyway?

Just wait till next year and there will be some to choose from.

thibs · 10-30-2007, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by codiac2600

Just wait till next year and there will be some to choose from.

Geez can't stay in place Codiac

GaryML · 10-30-2007, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by codiac2600

Remember this, Hoya makes nearly all the glass blanks for all the big name camera manufacturers ....

Nikon makes its own glass.

codiac2600 · 10-30-2007, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by GaryML

Nikon makes its own glass.

Not all in fact and I guess thats why some of their glass is so poor in colour shift along zoom ranges in some of their lenses.

regken · 10-30-2007, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by codiac2600

There is def two bodies in the works and the K10D is going to be Pentax's base model and all it's replacements will follow in that pattern.

Pentax doesn't have to be machinegun fast to sell cameras, but it does have to have one thing and thats value and it will for the prices the new bodies should hit the market for. Sure being 1 FPS and 2 FPS slower in each body may seem like a bad thing,
.

It appears you are hinting that the new models will be 5fps and 7 fps. That puts the low end model at the same as the D200 and 30D. If you are right I'm impressed. That's better than I thought. Good news.

Thanks,

Ken

time-snaps · 10-30-2007, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by codiac2600

...and won't shoot at 10FPS like the 1dMKIII...

...but minus 1 frame here and 2 frame there...

In my maths that makes it a 9fps and 8 fps Pro Camera. Time to clear out the kit. Anyone for a (brand new) K10 Grand Prix..?!