Full Frame Digital with DA lenses

konraDarnok · 07-24-2008, 04:25 PM

I could care less if they made a FF camera, but, in this digital age, why couldn't the camera automatically detect that it has a DA lens attached and only record the appropriate pixels within the image circle.

It'd be pretty seamless wouldn't it? So maybe all the talk about lens compatibility would be moot.

Besides, some 'DA' lenses are just re badged old optical formulas anyway -- this hybrid capture (10mp instead of 20?) would only effect DA lenses that vignetted.

The camera knows what it's shooting.

*falconeye* · 07-24-2008, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by konraDarnok

why couldn't the camera automatically detect that it has a DA lens attached

The worst possible scenario is this: The camera detects DA lens and automatically crops -- even if the lens doesn't (like with a DA*200).

Which is why suggestions as yours are sort of dangerous

As long as this does not happen I will be happy. It's easy enough to crop within LR.

RBellavance · 07-24-2008, 05:27 PM

falconeye, that scenario is easily mitigated by a menu item which allows one to disable to auto-crop. Choice is good :-)

In fact, that is exactly how Nikon does it with the D3 and D700.

*falconeye* · 07-24-2008, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by RBellavance

falconeye, that scenario is easily mitigated by a menu item which allows one to disable to auto-crop. Choice is good :-)

You mean like the menu item to disable automatic focal length setting with a tele converter?

The danger I am speaking of is real. Unfortunately...

GaryM · 07-24-2008, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by konraDarnok

I could care less if they made a FF camera, but, in this digital age, why couldn't the camera automatically detect that it has a DA lens attached and only record the appropriate pixels within the image circle.

It'd be pretty seamless wouldn't it? So maybe all the talk about lens compatibility would be moot.

Besides, some 'DA' lenses are just re badged old optical formulas anyway -- this hybrid capture (10mp instead of 20?) would only effect DA lenses that vignetted.

The camera knows what it's shooting.

So, you're effectively cropping your bigger and more expensive FF camera back to APS-C, nullifying any advantage of the larger sensor. Seems kind of... pointless?

leadbelly · 07-24-2008, 09:57 PM

Or maybe a switch when you want to use "APS-C" mode... a 3-way toggle? For FF, 1.3x crop and 1.5x crop... So the DA*s would act as a 24-75mm and 75-200mm lens albeit lesser MPs (though roughly the same as the current k20 I guess), while the FA's and other FF lenses can be used as they were intended... if not, then DA lens users would feel cheated in a way...

Edvinas · 07-25-2008, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by konraDarnok

I could care less if they made a FF camera, but, in this digital age, why couldn't the camera automatically detect that it has a DA lens attached and only record the appropriate pixels within the image circle.

It'd be pretty seamless wouldn't it? So maybe all the talk about lens compatibility would be moot.

It won't be seamless at all when you will look through viewfinder

Cideway · 07-25-2008, 03:01 AM

When Nikon did this with the D3 and D700, many of the Nikon crowd thought it was a brilliant way to get around the issue of crop frame glass, yet i have just read several responses saying what a crap idea it is.

It wouldn't be that hard to make it a custom function, three choices: OFF, AUTO, MANUAL. problem solvered.

Originally Posted by falconeye

The danger I am speaking of is real. Unfortunately...

one more point, what danger, none (until proven otherwise when tested on a 36x24mm sensor) of the DA lenses adequately cover a 35mm frame, so no "danger."

*falconeye* · 07-25-2008, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by Cideway

It wouldn't be that hard to make it a custom function, three choices: OFF, AUTO, MANUAL. problem solvered.

one more point, what danger, none (until proven otherwise when tested on a 36x24mm sensor) of the DA lenses adequately cover a 35mm frame, so no "danger."

The danger is that Pentax only gives you the "AUTO" setting. And there is FF capable DA glass.

Cideway · 07-25-2008, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by falconeye

The danger is that Pentax only gives you the "AUTO" setting. And there is FF capable DA glass.

Which ones? And have you proven conclusively that they perform adequately on a 36x24mm sensor, my guess is no. Film doesn't count as the differences between angle of incidence with how the formats function.

*Nesster* · 07-25-2008, 03:59 AM

Folks, I have no problem cropping after the fact, but if there was camera based cropping, I'd vote for a square image option.

LittleSkink · 07-25-2008, 04:42 AM

at the risk of passing on uncredited info (and this would appear to be just that) there is a view that Pentax use DA to designate Digital lenses (ie designed for sensor not film), but not neccesarily the sensor format. I found on here some slightly surpising DA lenses considered to be 'FF': Pentax Lens/Camera Compatibility - Mark Roberts Photography

I believe 200* and 300* definitely are Digital FF comaptible from Pentax sources, but people are right to question how DA lens might behave on a 35mm sensor as opposed to film -

Right now that test cannot be done as a camera to do it does not exist (though Samsung probably have one or two pre-production ones, maybe they would test this for us and let us know?) Although someone clever, on this forum, who knows about optical design might be able to offer informed comment of ray paths and angles of insidence as the designs are in the public domain - I for one would like to know that the DA35 limited and DA70 limited can do Digital FF as they will probably last me a lot longer then the K10 they currently attached to

Cideway · 07-25-2008, 05:21 AM

The simple thing i was saying, even though the DA* 200 f2.8 shares the same optical design as the DA* 200 f2.8, there is no comment on whether they adjust the internal baffels which may or may not effect coverage.

*falconeye* · 07-25-2008, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by Cideway

Film doesn't count as the differences between angle of incidence with how the formats function.

The ray incident angle argument is almost obsolete now. First, microlens design has made huge progress, with Samsung being a front runner. Second, as it almost only affects vignetting and in camera processors are capable enough to compensate for this, it isn't an issue even for Leica anymore.

Therefore, MTF tests on film is all we ever need to know.

Originally Posted by LittleSkink

I for one would like to know that the DA35 limited and DA70 limited can do Digital FF as they will probably last me a lot longer then the K10 they currently attached to

A while ago, I opened a thread dedicated to answering this sort of questions and it is gathering traffic now:
DA lens on Full Frame: Test Shots thread
Please, contribute. It is dedicated to real information, not rumors. Rumors stay here, please

Cideway · 07-25-2008, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by falconeye

The ray incident angle argument is almost obsolete now. First, microlens design has made huge progress, with Samsung being a front runner. Second, as it almost only affects vignetting and in camera processors are capable enough to compensate for this, it isn't an issue even for Leica anymore.

Therefore, MTF tests on film is all we ever need to know.

A while ago, I opened a thread dedicated to answering this sort of questions and it is gathering traffic now:
DA lens on Full Frame: Test Shots thread
Please, contribute. It is dedicated to real information, not rumors. Rumors stay here, please

Looks like a good thread. Might put one of my out of date slide rolls through with some of my DAs, just to show what they come up like.