Pentax as a niche player...

lol101 · 01-08-2009, 04:08 AM

Pentax is often refered as being a niche player and hence not in direct competition with the big 2 (or 3 if you count Sony).

Nevertheless, it seems to me that their current offering, in terms of DLSRs, is too close to what the others are doing to be called a real niche.

But when asked what exactly makes Pentax unique, some answers revolve around the small high quality primes such as the DA limited, high IQ and small but rugged bodies (weather sealing).

Going in that direction, wouldn't Pentax carve a REAL niche for itself by introducing a small EVIL type APS-C camera, completely weather proofed with some new pancake primes also weatherproofed and recalculated specialy for EVIL (non retrofocus small wide angles ala Leica for instance - I am thinking 15mmf4 and/or 21f2.0)?

Sporting the 14,6MP Samsung sensor this could be the dream "almost pocketable" camera for outdoor/street photographers.

The only technical difficulties would be the AF system (contrast detection is not the fastest AF but is very precise) and design of the EVIL system by itself but I imagine it could be done.

What do you think? Would it be a good way for Pentax to create its own niche?

Kunzite · 01-08-2009, 04:29 AM

If Pentax will go the "EVIL" way, I'll have to switch (probably to Nikon). In the far future, maybe I'll accept EVFs, but not now.
If Pentax will change the mount, they will lose what market share they have. They can't sell on marketing, like Panasonic does with the G1.

Talking about niche, I'd very much preffer the other way around.
I'd like Pentax to make a SLR with a real optical viewfinder, big, bright and easy to use. Interchangeable finders (like the LX) would be a bonus.

montecarlo · 01-08-2009, 05:10 AM

That would mean that pentax is dropping the DSLR market

G1 is not dSLR.
So, from what I'm concerned, bye bye Pentax, than. And the closest to Pentax is Nikon.

The niche in which I like to see Pentax is: A camera ONLY for photographers (for those who know what they are buying - seulement pour les connaisseur ) .

PS. One of the reasons I choosed Pentax is also the viewfinder

and from my point of view nothing can be compared with direct viewing (optical).

Chwisch87 · 01-08-2009, 05:30 AM

Everyone talks about Niches and Pentax but photography is kind of photography. Its not like Apple computer in the early days. lol. A niche company is one that basically does something special that no other company does or does as well. Basically in order to be consided a niche in my eyes a camera would have to do something that a canon or nikon or anything couldn't. Leica and rangefinders come to mind perhaps.

Wait i got it .... well give Pentax Warp Drive.

lol101 · 01-08-2009, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by montecarlo

That would mean that pentax is dropping the DSLR market G1 is not dSLR.
So, from what I'm concerned, bye bye Pentax, than. And the closest to Pentax is Nikon.

The niche in which I like to see Pentax is: A camera ONLY for photographers (for those who know what they are buying - seulement pour les connaisseur ) .

PS. One of the reasons I choosed Pentax is also the viewfinder and from my point of view nothing can be compared with direct viewing (optical).

Not necessarily, I didn't imply that they would replace their existing lineup by one of those, just that they would supplement them by this kind of camera to differenciate themselves a bit more.

As for being the "connaisseur" camera... or a "photographer's" camera: could you describe a bit what would that be?

lol101 · 01-08-2009, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Chwisch87

Everyone talks about Niches and Pentax but photography is kind of photography. Its not like Apple computer in the early days. lol. A niche company is one that basically does something special that no other company does or does as well. Basically in order to be consided a niche in my eyes a camera would have to do something that a canon or nikon or anything couldn't. Leica and rangefinders come to mind perhaps.

Wait i got it .... well give Pentax Warp Drive.

Exactly my point: as it is, I don't see Pentax as a niche player, but if it is indeed their intent to become one, what would be the Pentax's way to do it?

regken · 01-08-2009, 06:14 AM

Agreed!! The small unit you are describing is perfect. They could price it up there with the G1 and make it very profitable. Add a big brother to the line that is slightly smaller than the K20D with an improved sensor (Maybe APS-H?) and OVF for tracking. Price that just below the least expensive FF unit and that too would be extremely profitable.

vinzer · 01-08-2009, 06:23 AM

Dunno about EVIL, but I'm thinking Pentax can do away with in-body SR and get a DSLR smaller than the K-m, if they really set their heart into it.

I'm not too sure how much that would sell, though.

Or an alternative is to do away with the sensor-shake SR mechanism and put in that software-based stabilization they're putting in the compacts (well, updated versions, at least), assuming that software-based SR doesn't adversely affect the image.

I'm also not sure how big the screwdrive AF module is either, but Pentax can also do away with that to help make the camera smaller.

I really don't see the need for Pentax to drop OVFs. I just had a play with an ME Super earlier, and I do think that Pentax can still make a DSLR of similar size, given they'd remove the sensor shake, screwdrive AF, and maybe switch to proprietary batteries. I'm no engineer, but I think it's feasible.

regken · 01-08-2009, 06:26 AM

Can't get rid of SR, that is a must have in this type of unit.

lol101 · 01-08-2009, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Kunzite

If Pentax will go the "EVIL" way, I'll have to switch (probably to Nikon). In the far future, maybe I'll accept EVFs, but not now.
If Pentax will change the mount, they will lose what market share they have. They can't sell on marketing, like Panasonic does with the G1.

Talking about niche, I'd very much preffer the other way around.
I'd like Pentax to make a SLR with a real optical viewfinder, big, bright and easy to use. Interchangeable finders (like the LX) would be a bonus.

I see EVIL cameras more as a supplement to OVF DSLRs (when you need ultimate compacity) than a replacement so I can only agree on the necessity to offer some models with the nicest OVF possible.

After all, this is one of the points that drove me to buy a 5D and even the 5D is still no match for my Z1-P which is no match for my vintage Ricoh KsII (94% coverage, x0,96 magnification with diagonaly split focusing aid... a real treat for MF).

whatever7 · 01-08-2009, 07:18 AM

That's way they should act niche and produce a retro/classy looking camera body. Take a look at Ricoh's designs.

Advertisement and communicating with the customers has always been Pentax's problem.

Kunzite · 01-08-2009, 07:29 AM

In no time, everyone will make EVIL cameras. Pentax should indeed make retro/classy* looking ones, DSLR I mean - that's niche!

*but with all the modern features; otherwise they won't sell. Pentax is not Leica

regken · 01-08-2009, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by lol101

I see EVIL cameras more as a supplement to OVF DSLRs (when you need ultimate compacity) than a replacement so I can only agree on the necessity to offer some models with the nicest OVF possible.

After all, this is one of the points that drove me to buy a 5D and even the 5D is still no match for my Z1-P which is no match for my vintage Ricoh KsII (94% coverage, x0,96 magnification with diagonaly split focusing aid... a real treat for MF).

This may be an impossible idea but what if in the upscale body they had an OVF AND a EVF? When shooting something other than moving objects the EVF can be as big and bright as you ever had on a film camera.

montecarlo · 01-08-2009, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by lol101

Not necessarily, I didn't imply that they would replace their existing lineup by one of those, just that they would supplement them by this kind of camera to differenciate themselves a bit more.

As for being the "connaisseur" camera... or a "photographer's" camera: could you describe a bit what would that be?

A person for which photography is at least a hobby (self learning if doesn't have the possibility to follow photography courses or to study photography at a higher level), a person who knows what crop factor is, what magnifying factor is, etc...etc...etc..., more simply, a person that know every specs.of a camera and what they mean (what are), a person that studies (specs. vs. prices) the cameras offered by the stores (on-line or not), a person that not buys a camera , lens or whatever on a hurry or sometimes at the recommendation of the person that sells that camera, a person that knows EXACTLY what wants and what buys.
Unfortunately, these days a brand can not "live" without inserting on their offer cameras that are fool proof (for example using DOF-preview capability and manual AF point selection instead of help menus and I don't know what other useless - for me - feature , on the K-m/K2000 ).
I would like a digital Pentax MX (same body but with a FF sensor

- no SR, no LCD, no AF, but same viewfinder, 36x24mm sensor + SD card instead of the film ).
But thats only me, although I think even if a product like a digital MX would exist I couldn't afford it

(too low demand for such kind of product).

regken · 01-08-2009, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by montecarlo

But thats only me, although I think even if a product like a digital MX would exist I couldn't afford it (too low demand for such kind of product).

That is exactly the point of this thread. It's not what we individually would like to see but what do you think Pentax could produce that would make them a viable niche manufacturer. LOL101 has defined one product that would seem to fit the criteria. I think a smaller K20D with an APS-H sensor is another. Got any others you think would sell enough to be included?

Weather sealed DA primes would compliment these two bodies.