Are they talking of full frame?

eurostar · 03-05-2009, 12:32 AM

I saw this news:

PMA: Samsung in talks over GX DSLR camera news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums

and I am wondering if the talk between Pentax and Samsung is about a possible FF camera.

Would Samsung says

We are in serious discussions with Pentax.
We can't decide ourselves so we are talking to our partner.

if they would talk about another APS-C camera? Wouldn't the talk refer to the need that Pentax develops new FF lenses?

Probably I am looking too much into and too far from these few words, but...

Douglas_of_Sweden · 03-05-2009, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by eurostar

I saw this news:

PMA: Samsung in talks over GX DSLR camera news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums

and I am wondering if the talk between Pentax and Samsung is about a possible FF camera.

Would Samsung says

if they would talk about another APS-C camera? Wouldn't the talk refer to the need that Pentax develops new FF lenses?

Probably I am looking too much into and too far from these few words, but...

They are supposed to have said that they don't want a Samsung version of the K-m as it would compete with the NX. As the NX is actually APS-C and not 4/3rd I somehow daubt they will want to continue to work with Pentax on any K-mount APS-C. That would support your hypothesis that they talk full frame. For Samsung it should make sence to have a hybrid APS-C with interchangeable lenses and then a FF DSLR. This may still be far enough into the future as to make the current economy less of a problem. But I wonder if Pentax realy have the production capacity. Noticed there is again rumors on the 645D for Japanese market only.

But until I've seen what lenses they are actually going to put on the NX I will keep on wonfering if it could be that these unlabeled lenses we have seen on the NX are nothing but a tin can with a piece of front glass and that they actually have no lenses to the NX and desperately look for someone to make those lenses...and that the discussion with Pentax includes this...but as they obviously have decreased the registration distance on the NX you can't just easilly relabel Pentax lenses for the NX, it will take new optical solutions. Would samsung be so stupid as to develop the NX without a set of lenses for it? Your link says "they hope to launch it later this year", which sounds sort of unprecise and undefinit...no lenses yet? Pentax might be in a good negotiation position here. Does anyone knows if one could adapt a lens (say the DA limiteds for example) for a shorter registration distance by "just" changing the last lens groups and keep the other lens groups and the mechanics?

Speculating is fun

StephenG · 03-05-2009, 01:08 AM

that article actually makes no sense....

first they say they are talking to pentax about WHEN to release...

then they say they want to focus on the "hybrid"

then they say they have not ruled out making another SLR ??

so if they haven't even decided yet whether to make another DSLR - what are they talking to pentax about ????

*redpigeons* · 03-05-2009, 01:11 AM

from what I could understand in the last few days is that samsung announced a plan for a new Hybrid camera. SLR with out the mirror that will use an APS-C sensor.

so I am exited about it... we can buy DA lenses and in a year or so enjoy this camera. that will be small, with a better sensor then the K20D, with a great live view and HD video? this camera can give a great fight to Panasonic and Olympus.
I am exited about this camera even better then FF...

instead of FF lenses they should work on FPS and AF

I have no idea if what I am saying is correct I actually asking more then saying. but if that is true... great ... DA LTD are great, small , cheaper, and now I can guess that I can keep using them with next few camera models at least

edit: Ok I know nothing... so still no clue about what lenses to buy... it a good thing there is a recession BC Pentax sure know how to make me confuse and keep my money in my pocket...

Douglas_of_Sweden · 03-05-2009, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by redpigeons

...
so I am exited about it... we can buy DA lenses and in a year or so enjoy this camera.

.. great ... DA LTD are great, small , cheaper, and now I can guess that I can keep using them with next few camera models at least

Appears that you have not figured this out yet:

-The NX is too thin to have the same registration distance as the K-mount lenses. Actually, that is the while point: get rid of the mirror to be able to make a smaller camera. This means your DA limited (if they could even be mounted on the NX) will focus somewhere behind the sensor (they say they redueced it 40%, so the registration distance will be about 30mm instead of about 45mm) and give a completely out of focus picture.

-I have not even seen any source claiming the NX will use K-mount.

-And if you now begin to think about adapters of some sort...yes such could be made, but they will add the missing ~15mm distance and then the camera will not be that thin any longer (which sort of kille the whole point), and you likely loose auto exposure and auto focus.

MMVIII · 03-05-2009, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

But until I've seen what lenses they are actually going to put on the NX I will keep on wonfering if it could be that these unlabeled lenses we have seen on the NX are nothing but a tin can with a piece of front glass and that they actually have no lenses to the NX and desperately look for someone to make those lenses...nd undefinit...
Speculating is fun

I think the PMA-youtube-video of this camera supports your statement. Look at the reflexions of the "front element", looks more like a bottle-bottom or ashtray than a (SMC-)coated lens.

YouTube - [No-Edit PMA 09] Samsung's hybrid camera 'NX'

Greetings, dan

Bophoto · 03-05-2009, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by eurostar

..............
and I am wondering if the talk between Pentax and Samsung is about a possible FF camera. ...........................

Yes, a 645D with FF

They don't going to sale K-m because it compete with NX, but are K300D a real step up from NX. That can be the question.
Another question are if Samsung want to compete with the other (Canon, Nikon..) with a DSLR as they say "it would be 'very difficult' to take DSLR market share..."
Or if they want to sale DSLR, but not try hard to compete/and/ or leave development of cameras to Pentax?

Douglas_of_Sweden · 03-05-2009, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by MMVIII

I think the PMA-youtube-video of this camera supports your statement. Look at the reflexions of the "front element", looks more like a bottle-bottom or ashtray than a (SMC-)coated lens.

YouTube - [No-Edit PMA 09] Samsung's hybrid camera 'NX'

Greetings, dan

You are rigth! Both lenses realy look like "fake". Usually if the lenscoating is at least decent, you will be able to see at least the first 2-3 lens elements, but you don't see anything else than the first lens on this video. And the camera is only under glass yet, right? Has anyone been able to handle it and look through the view finder?

Bophoto · 03-05-2009, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

........
-I have not even seen any source claiming the NX will use K-mount.

-And if you now begin to think about adapters of some sort...yes such could be made, but they will add the missing ~15mm distance and then the camera will not be that thin any longer (which sort of kille the whole point), and you likely loose auto exposure and auto focus.

I think Samsung want to made their own camera, no K-mount and no Pentax flashes.

Why lose AF and auto exposure with a new type of adapter?
Some use M42 lenses on Digital cameras, and they lose AF and auto exposure, compete what to get 15mm more. I chose 15mm for my existing lenses and by one or two new lenses that are of NX type instead of buying M42 lenses for my K10D.

Erik · 03-05-2009, 02:27 AM

There is obviously no way that the NX is a K-mount camera BUT since Samsung still has a cooperation with Pentax, maybe they could cooperate on making an adapter that retains AF and AE. It would be a win/win situation since Pentax is an optical company and they could potentially make quite a bit of money selling DA limiteds to NX owners. Yes, I know the adapter will add size, but that's not the point -- there would be a market, just like there's a market for adapters to use pretty much any old forgotten lens you can think of on the Panasonic G1.

Douglas_of_Sweden · 03-05-2009, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bophoto

Why lose AF and auto exposure with a new type of adapter?
Some use M42 lenses on Digital cameras, and they lose AF and auto exposure, compete what to get 15mm more. I chose 15mm for my existing lenses and by one or two new lenses that are of NX type instead of buying M42 lenses for my K10D.

You don't "lose" AF and auto exposure on lenses that never had this. I don't think very many people will buy new DA limiteds for full price and then put them on an NX fully manual (some who anyway have these lenses for their Pentax cameras may do so). That is not the same thing as buying cheap m42 lenses to play with on a DSLR. Your comparison does not make sense.

Originally Posted by Erik

There is obviously no way that the NX is a K-mount camera BUT since Samsung still has a cooperation with Pentax, maybe they could cooperate on making an adapter that retains AF and AE. It would be a win/win situation since Pentax is an optical company and they could potentially make quite a bit of money selling DA limiteds to NX owners. Yes, I know the adapter will add size, but that's not the point -- there would be a market, just like there's a market for adapters to use pretty much any old forgotten lens you can think of on the Panasonic G1.

Sure it will work if someone makes the adapter...but Samsung is not likely to base the whole system on this. This sort of thing is something a few entusiasts does, not the majority of costumers. They will want dedicated lenses that takes advantage of the compactness of the cameras (which is realy its main feature).

But I do think it is nice of Samsung to put an APS-C sensor in this type of camera. I am much more likely to buy this than any 4/3rd sensored body. But still it is a big questionmark what lenses they will use. If they already had a solution they would be bragging about it, not put these anonymous lenses behind glass.

Erik · 03-05-2009, 02:50 AM

I will buy a mirrorless "SLR-like" camera the day it is full frame and has a very short registration distance. Imagine being able to get adapters for any 35mm lens mount you'd care to mention and use the lenses with the FOV they were made for. NICE.

Bophoto · 03-05-2009, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

You don't "lose" AF and auto exposure on lenses that never had this. I don't think very many people will buy new DA limiteds for full price and then put them on an NX fully manual (some who anyway have these lenses for their Pentax cameras may do so). That is not the same thing as buying cheap m42 lenses to play with on a DSLR. Your comparison does not make sense.......................

You write in post 5:
".....and you likely loose auto exposure and auto focus"
I can´t lose something that never had been in a lens.

And no, i should never ever buy F, FA or DA lenses for a NX, do you think that i have only M42 lenses to my K10D???

whatever7 · 03-05-2009, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by StephenG

that article actually makes no sense....

first they say they are talking to pentax about WHEN to release...

Think of it this way. They know the next Pentax SLR is coming (K30. K300), but they can't say anything before Pentax announce it.

then they say they want to focus on the "hybrid"

Well this is true, for Panasonic as well.

then they say they have not ruled out making another SLR ??

I don't think Samsung really want to make another DSLR anymore. HOWEVER, they can't say that. Becuase there are many GX camera owners who are about to be abandoned by Samsung. They are left with many K mount lenses that can't AF and probably can't even step down the aperture ring properly on the new NX bodies.

Therefore they will never admit to leaving the DSLR market. This applies to Panasonic as well.

so if they haven't even decided yet whether to make another DSLR - what are they talking to pentax about ????

Oh believe me they have decided, they are just not saying it loud.

Samsung can always talk to Pentax for sensor only. Since Samsung will sell more NX bodies than their old GX bodies, they will continue to make APSC sensors that can do video. They want Pentax to switch their complete range of DSLR to Samsung sensor obviously.

I think Samsung doesn't want to leave out the possibility of repackaging one more high end Pentax body (K30) in case there is to much complain from the current GX owners.

Usuqa · 03-05-2009, 04:33 AM

this might sound silly or what not.. hell wait i think what Samsung have done is stupid...

They ave a partnership with pentax and bring out a camera with possibly a different mount and a different flash system. WHY?

If i had any say in the design of the new NX system the first thing i though that would have made sense was to keep the K mount and pentax hot shoe.
Whats the point in tossing away all that compatibility and trying to bring out a new system?

I currently have a gx10 and i would love the ability to use the same lens/flash's that i do on that on another Samsung camera.. i meen it wouldnt even be HARD at all for them to do this.

1) use a K mount like on the gx10.
2) it has 2 buttons on the mount.. 1 to release the lens... the other to Exstend the mount to DSLR length or back to NX length.

Sure they might drop out the focus motor (would it really cost much space/cash to keep one in tho?) But just with that very simple setup.. you lose the need for an adaptor.. you keep the compatibility with all current interchangeable lens that Samsung and pentax already make and you have your small register distance for NX lens only.

Im not even a lens, camera or anything designer yet its so simple for me to think of such a solution and it cant be a hard thing to implement either.