FF in 2010? - Page 16

Angevinn · 11-03-2009, 09:39 AM

Sony is making an agressive push with their new 14.6 MP FF sensor. Sony is said to be releasing it first in the rumored A750 or A800 in the next 30 days, but no later than January 2010. Sony is also selling its 14.6 MP sensor to Nikon but with some custom changes to make it faster. Supposedly Pentax is also interested in the new Sony 14.6 MP FF sensor and will also incorporate the sensor in a new camera. There is also talk that Pentax will be bringing out two FF DSLR's, a high end and low end model (like the K-7 and K-X), but the cameras will not be released at the same time. The Sony 14.6 MP FF sensor will be used in the low end camera while the higher end camera will have more bells and whistles and a higher MP count sensor.

The way I see it is that Canon (who doesn't buy Sony sensors) overshot the mark with the 7D. Sure the Canon 7D is impressive and is the current "Cock of the (APS-C) Block" but the price is high and puts the APS-C 7D in the territory of the new wave of affordable FF DSLR's which are going to clobber it in image quality and other features.

There was a lot of discussion of the sensor on DP Review under the Sony DSLR section if you want to check these rumors.

I really want to see a FF camera in 2010 from Pentax, 2011 is waiting too long. The Sony and Nikon models using the 14.6 MP sensor are supposed to be priced at $1800 or less and arrive soon. Hurry up Pentax but don't bring out a rushed product!

*LeDave* · 11-03-2009, 09:49 AM

Wow, the DSLR market sure is insane lately... Video recording is now transitioning to becoming a normal part of the DSLR camera... Then Sony bringing out the first under 2k full frame... Then the K-x and a500 having crazy high ISO noise levels for a APS-C sensor that possibly rivals a full frame sensor.

It's crazy how video is now becoming a part of nearly all current released DSLR's, it's image quality is just as good, and if not better than video recorders that cost much more.

Then comes out the first full frame for under 2,000 from Sony. I wonder how much full frames will cost in the next two years if based on today's standard pricing... 1350?

I don't even know how the future for APS-C sensor will be, it's so unpredictable, it might even sleepingly become the standard format due to lower production costs and smaller and lighter size....

melander · 11-03-2009, 11:05 AM

and they can put the Pentax MX viewfinder in the camera too.

Shingoshi · 11-03-2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by gazonk

The Kodak DCS ProSLR/n (and /c) had some pretty awsome specs for their time, and they sure look sturdy, but are they really any more "built for heavy abuse" than the K-7? Do they have weather seals at all? Aren't they ridiculously slow dogs compared to more modern cameras?

The only way I've been able to describe that camera, is a "tank dressed in a tux". Like Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie "True Lies". And it uses a special body designed specifically for heavy use. There's very little of it not wrapped in a magnesium shell. The ProSLR/n also has a "vertical grip/battery chamber" would typically have to be added on as an accessory to other cameras, built directly into the body. It is a complete unitized solution. Granted, the technology is old. But for my purposes, it's still very functional. I don't think I will have gone the wrong route in choosing it.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

Samsungian · 11-03-2009, 02:35 PM

Kodak no longer supports these full frame dslrs, as of Dec31st 2008.

I've read the batteries for these are terrible.

You might want to google as I just did, that first link was the one I posted:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL DCS Pro SLR/n Digital Camera

I'd never pay any money for one of these kodak full frame dslrs. I'd take one for free if offered but its not worth buying one. But I am biased, I owned a 3 year old Kodak that Kodak stopped supporting. I'll never buy any "Kodak" camera again. Maybe theres a club or forum that still caters to kodak full frame owners. I'd start there and I'll guess everyone will want to unload their camera on you and then move on to something new, fast and fun.

These were made for Canon and Nikon lenses, I wonder why Kodak never made them for Pentax K-Mount ? Or Minolta ?

Originally Posted by Shingoshi

The only way I've been able to describe that camera, is a "tank dressed in a tux". Like Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie "True Lies". And it uses a special body designed specifically for heavy use. There's very little of it not wrapped in a magnesium shell. The ProSLR/n also has a "vertical grip/battery chamber" would typically have to be added on as an accessory to other cameras, built directly into the body. It is a complete unitized solution. Granted, the technology is old. But for my purposes, it's still very functional. I don't think I will have gone the wrong route in choosing it.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

Angevinn · 11-03-2009, 02:35 PM

Here is another write up about the 14.6 MP Sony FF DSLR. Price is thought to be about $1500. I don't see how Canon can keep the price of the APS-C 7D at $1800. Here come affordable FF DSLR's!

Sony A750 Rumor Update Photography Bay | Digital Camera Reviews, News and Resources

Shingoshi · 11-03-2009, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Samsungian

Kodak no longer supports these full frame dslrs, as of Dec31st 2008.

I've read the batteries for these are terrible.

You might want to google as I just did, that first link was the one I posted:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL DCS Pro SLR/n Digital Camera

I'd never pay any money for one of these kodak full frame dslrs. I'd take one for free if offered but its not worth buying one. But I am biased, I owned a 3 year old Kodak that Kodak stopped supporting. I'll never buy any "Kodak" camera again. Maybe theres a club or forum that still caters to kodak full frame owners. I'd start there and I'll guess everyone will want to unload their camera on you and then move on to something new, fast and fun.

These were made for Canon and Nikon lenses, I wonder why Kodak never made them for Pentax K-Mount ? Or Minolta ?

I was already aware of these cameras having been discontinued. To some extent, that can be an advantage. For one thing, they're not as in demand as they would have been otherwise. Repairs can still be made for them though. Midwest Camera Repair is the name of the company Kodak listed as the authorized support channel. I already contacted them for a different camera. And then again, I'm looking for an excellent condition ProSLR/n. Having the latest model means I won't have to get the upgrades required for previous models. The battery issue is interesting. I need to contact a couple of the sellers and ask about their personal experience with this. Did it even ever occur to you that other companies now produce batteries as replacements? And that there are likely newer versions available now.

Now to another reality. Are you comparing a consumer product from Kodak to the ProSLR/n as the basis of your bias? Because if so, that's really laughable. The professional cameras were in a class of their own and had no comparison to anything else available. And that's probably true not only of Kodak, but other companies having delivered later digital cameras for professional use. And speaking about class. Neither Pentax nor Minolta had the class to justify Kodak giving any attention to companies that didn't already produce and have a commitment to a professional market. Nikon came first, because Nikon is first in the minds of professional photographers. Canon was only added later. I think the ProSLR/n was the camera for Nikon before they had a truly professional digital camera of their own. I have a hunch that Kodak only built these cameras to produce a market for selling their sensors. Because there's more money to be made selling sensors to other companies, than trying to compete with those already established in that segment. And that's exactly what has been the case since. Leica is the latest company to use Kodak sensors in their M9. Although it will be interesting now to see what technological advancements Kodak is capable of under the pressure of Sony moving to higher resolution cameras.

I'm just guessing on the basis of a previous post about Sony selling sensors to Nikon, that the Sony sensors may be usable in the ProSLR/n as well. I'm thinking of having a camera that can be modified as time progresses. I don't think I will necessarily be stuck in the past with this camera. It is the nature of electronic components to be replaceable. The only issue is whether you own something that will cost less to upgrade than replace. And that's never the case with any consumer products which are meant to be disposable.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

Angevinn · 11-03-2009, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Shingoshi

I was already aware of these cameras having been discontinued. To some extent, that can be an advantage. For one thing, they're not as in demand as they would have been otherwise. Repairs can still be made for them though. Midwest Camera Repair is the name of the company Kodak listed as the authorized support channel. I already contacted them for a different camera. And then again, I'm looking for an excellent condition ProSLR/n. Having the latest model means I won't have to get the upgrades required for previous models. The battery issue is interesting. I need to contact a couple of the sellers and ask about their personal experience with this. Did it even ever occur to you that other companies now produce batteries as replacements? And that there are likely newer versions available now.

Now to another reality. Are you comparing a consumer product from Kodak to the ProSLR/n as the basis of your bias? Because if so, that's really laughable. The professional cameras were in a class of their own and had no comparison to anything else available. And that's probably true not only of Kodak, but other companies having delivered later digital cameras for professional use. And speaking about class. Neither Pentax nor Minolta had the class to justify Kodak giving any attention to companies that didn't already produce and have a commitment to a professional market. Nikon came first, because Nikon is first in the minds of professional photographers. Canon was only added later. I think the ProSLR/n was the camera for Nikon before they had a truly professional digital camera of their own. I have a hunch that Kodak only built these cameras to produce a market for selling their sensors. Because there's more money to be made selling sensors to other companies, than trying to compete with those already established in that segment. And that's exactly what has been the case since. Leica is the latest company to use Kodak sensors in their M9. Although it will be interesting now to see what technological advancements Kodak is capable of under the pressure of Sony moving to higher resolution cameras.

I'm just guessing on the basis of a previous post about Sony selling sensors to Nikon, that the Sony sensors may be usable in the ProSLR/n as well. I'm thinking of having a camera that can be modified as time progresses. I don't think I will necessarily be stuck in the past with this camera. It is the nature of electronic components to be replaceable. The only issue is whether you own something that will cost less to upgrade than replace. And that's never the case with any consumer products which are meant to be disposable.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

Samsungian was right, Kodak sucks. I believe most of the readers here are looking for a discussion on Pentax and the future Pentax FF DSLR(s). Not a self congratulating discussion on buying a dead camera system.

I would never buy a Kodak camera or one with a Kodak sensor. Even the product manager of the Leica M9, Stefan Daniel, seemed non committal on staying with Kodak sensors. To have Live View and Video, a CMOS sensor is necessary. Kodak shut down their CMOS division this past September. Way to go Kodak!

Shingoshi · 11-03-2009, 06:39 PM

This got completely off track. I never intended to pursue this in this forum. The problem is when someone answers questions raised, I tend to answer them. But I'll leave this alone from now on. But I wondered how much longer Kodak could remain viable in this growing market. Sony seems to have the advantage now, with few potential/relevant competitors. The question now is what will be the future of this technology if it's dependent on a company with strict proprietary policies. Sony isn't in business to compete. They only seek to rule. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

*KungPOW* · 11-03-2009, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Shingoshi

I was already aware of these cameras having been discontinued. To some extent, that can be an advantage. For one thing, they're not as in demand as they would have been otherwise. Repairs can still be made for them though. Midwest Camera Repair is the name of the company Kodak listed as the authorized support channel. I already contacted them for a different camera. And then again, I'm looking for an excellent condition ProSLR/n. Having the latest model means I won't have to get the upgrades required for previous models. The battery issue is interesting. I need to contact a couple of the sellers and ask about their personal experience with this. Did it even ever occur to you that other companies now produce batteries as replacements? And that there are likely newer versions available now.

Now to another reality. Are you comparing a consumer product from Kodak to the ProSLR/n as the basis of your bias? Because if so, that's really laughable. The professional cameras were in a class of their own and had no comparison to anything else available. And that's probably true not only of Kodak, but other companies having delivered later digital cameras for professional use. And speaking about class. Neither Pentax nor Minolta had the class to justify Kodak giving any attention to companies that didn't already produce and have a commitment to a professional market. Nikon came first, because Nikon is first in the minds of professional photographers. Canon was only added later. I think the ProSLR/n was the camera for Nikon before they had a truly professional digital camera of their own. I have a hunch that Kodak only built these cameras to produce a market for selling their sensors. Because there's more money to be made selling sensors to other companies, than trying to compete with those already established in that segment. And that's exactly what has been the case since. Leica is the latest company to use Kodak sensors in their M9. Although it will be interesting now to see what technological advancements Kodak is capable of under the pressure of Sony moving to higher resolution cameras.

I'm just guessing on the basis of a previous post about Sony selling sensors to Nikon, that the Sony sensors may be usable in the ProSLR/n as well. I'm thinking of having a camera that can be modified as time progresses. I don't think I will necessarily be stuck in the past with this camera. It is the nature of electronic components to be replaceable. The only issue is whether you own something that will cost less to upgrade than replace. And that's never the case with any consumer products which are meant to be disposable.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

What are you talking about? Are you expecting to be able to replace the Kodak sensor with a Sony sensor? If have read your post at least 4 times and I don't get what you are going on about.

Also, are you seriously sugesting that the DSC PRO SLR is good camera to consider in light of no FF DSLR from Pentax?

What do these things cost on the used market?

*KungPOW* · 11-03-2009, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Shingoshi

This got completely off track. I never intended to pursue this in this forum. The problem is when someone answers questions raised, I tend to answer them. But I'll leave this alone from now on.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

Damn! now I'll never know!

Shingoshi · 11-03-2009, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by KungPOW

Damn! now I'll never know!

This all started out as a discussion of cost versus resolution. Let's not take this too far here. So in a general discussion, the more any product originally cost the better chance it will cost less to upgrade than replace. But that may not apply here. And I may have made a number of erroneous assumptions which cannot be supported. That also goes for the replacement of sensors. I don't think more needs to be said than that.

The general idea was that no company is going to sell a new full-frame digital camera for less than anything that's out of production. So can we now leave this off-topic alone?

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

Samsungian · 11-03-2009, 07:30 PM

Just did a completed dcs search at ebay usa

Well if this crazy long link posts I'll share the results:

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/Digit...c0.m283&_rdc=1

Shingoshi · 11-03-2009, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Samsungian

Just did a completed dcs search at ebay usa

Well if this crazy long link posts I'll share the results:

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/Digit...c0.m283&_rdc=1

But you should try this instead: Kodak "SLR/n" That's the only model that matters here.
http://desc.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nk...&_osacat=31388
That will provide you with a more limited set of results. You could use the advanced search like I do, and include the entire world in your results. After you have your results, stop posting about it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Kodak-DCS-Pro-SL...item27acc4c900
Notice his comments about switching systems and the equipment he's now selling off.

Xavian-Anderson Macpherson
ShingoshiDao

*KungPOW* · 11-03-2009, 08:21 PM

Damn! Now I know!